Clay Farm, Leopardstown, Dublin 18

No, not a peep yet about the exact prices or release date

Got the email from Savilles a few days ago for the houses finally coming online. Viewings held from today. Prices have gone up to minimum of €535k for a 3-bed. I remember many months ago, the entire reason I was interested in this development was that one of the agents specifically called up to say they'd be releasing the next round in "the summer", and it was about the only property I could find in Dublin eligible for HTB (with the lower-end ones going for around €490k). I even specifically asked her on the phone about whether or not we could get HTB for them as this was a big selling point for us and she said that yes, the cheaper middle-units would be. I lobbied hard with my partner for us to wait for these to come around because it seemed like such a great opportunity and would save us so much money compared to what else was on the market.

Very glad I relented now though. Delivered way later than expected, and despite stupidly going and giving them our entire proof of funds many months ago, and registering to view just 3 minutes after the email was sent out (I checked the email timestamp after I finished my registration), I was promptly responded to and told that I did not even get a viewing because they were all booked. Honestly, I wasn't planning to go anyway and would have immediately cancelled to let someone else have it, as we have gone sale agreed elsewhere, just wanted to see if I could have.

Very glad I didn't wait for it now. I can't fathom what you would actually have to do to secure one of these considering the many efforts we went to to try and get our own foot in the door and staying in contact with the agent for months. Would have been sickened if we waited this long to find out we never had a chance.

If you don't like the look of the development then that's your personal taste. I have to say I find the look of the houses much nicer than the nearby Belarmine and certainly nicer than some of the older estates in Stillorgan. The houses are quite close together, but that's DLRR's fault, not the builders. Every new estate is going to have the density of Clay Farm, and every new estate is going to have more apartments than houses. That's the only way developments get approved nowadays. And on a bigger picture basis, I agree with it. We need a certain amount of units, whether that's apartments or houses, over the next ten years if we are to stem the rising prices.

The nearby ESB station is an eyesore, I don't disagree. We live about 400m back from it, and don't hear it at all - either inside or outside the house. But if you lived within 100m of it, you'd definitely hear the hum of it in your back garden. Yes, Ballyogan estate is not far up the road. We haven't found any unsociable behaviour within the estate as a result, but outside Spar/Dunnes can be not great after dark. I haven't experienced anything negative myself, but just the presence of gangs of teenagers can be a bit intimating.

You clearly have had a negative experience with the agents, and that has coloured your view of the estate. I suppose I came to the process with a very low expectation of how the estate agents would try to sell the houses (I mean, does anyone believe what they write on myhome.ie/the Clay Farm website? I've always taken those things as works of fiction) but I actually found Darren very personable and very decent to deal with, surprisingly for an estate agent. But I get it if you had a negative experience that can be really frustrating, especially in the current environment when supply of decent houses are few and far between.

I wouldn't go that far, personally. I mean, they do still seem like fairly nice houses to me at least, and there's nothing wrong with apartments in the complex imo, especially since they've clearly been a part of the plan a long time. I do feel like I was pretty misled on these by the agents with the long delays and prices going up considerably from what they were initially advertised to me, and I've learned a lesson in not relying on getting on any new build lists no matter what you do in terms of early registration and having all of your ducks lined up, but I can imagine that they don't really care because in this market these places probably basically sell themselves.

I have heard through the grapevine that some private investors did buy up some of the apartments though, which I'm not a fan of at all. Not buying out a whole block like the controversial case in Maynooth, but still taking a few off the market all the same, and doing so outside of the normal lottery channels that the rest of us have to go through.

This has been a longstanding issue with Clay Farm contracts. We bought our house back in 2018, and our solicitor tried her best to get the "subject to mortgage approval" clause inserted into the contract, but was not successful. The Law Society even recommends it as a standard part of any property contract, but its not a legal obligation to include it so they don't.

Legally, that means that - for whatever reason - if the bank decides not to give you the mortgage at drawdown Park Developments are not required to return your 10% deposit. Now, in reality there is massive demand out there and they would likely find another buyer immediately, in which case they would return the 10% deposit. There would be no benefit for them, really, to hold onto it in case the rejected buyer came on Boards or on the radio to call them out on it. I think Park know that their ready supply of buyers would dry up fairly quickly if people thought they would hold on to the 10% deposit despite finding another buyer.

I suspect that Park got burned badly at the start of the recession when banks tightened their mortgage lending considerably over a very short number of months. It meant that large swathes of buyers could not draw down the mortgages they had initially been approved for, and were able to get their deposits back.

I know it's an extra stress for you - the fear that the bank might change their criteria, or god help us if one of your lost our job or whatever. My husband had been going through a tough phase at work but knew he couldn't leave until after drawdown (at which point work improved anyway).

Good luck with it all in any case!

I don't know any tricks as such, but if I were you I would try and stay in contact with the agent over the next few weeks (is it still Darren Clendennan?). It's a fine line, you want him to keep you in mind but not get irritated by loads of messages. If you are on the cancellation list and have not been contacted then it's unlikely that a house will come up now. I only say this as most cancellations are between putting down the €5000 booking deposits on the day of the viewings, and six weeks later when the contracts are being signed. The €5000 is fully refundable if you change your mind between those dates. After the contracts are signed, the full 10% deposit is payable and is not refundable, so there's very little chance of a buyer pulling out after that unless their bank has ultimately turned them down for a mortgage. That being said, there's a possibility a house might come up. I would send a very polite message to the agent and ask whether any houses have come up through cancellations, and if not whether he could let you know what number you are on the cancellation list. No.2? No.10? If no cancellations have come up, just thank him for getting back to you and hold off for at least another two months before sending another message. If he doesn't reply, wait at least a week and send a very gentle reminder acknowledging that he can't be replying to every potential buyer but you'd just really like to know for your own sanity!

Is there any houses coming up in another phase? Presumably, if there are, that will be next year? Are you on the list for the next phase? Being on the cancellation list does not necessarily mean that you are on the registration list for the next phase.

As I understand it, the email system goes like this. You stay in contact with the agent, he gives you the ballpark time (between x date and x date) that the viewing email will go out. Take those days off work. Make sure every Savills email address will come into your inbox and not to your junk or spam folders. Anyone else you can get to rope in (sisters, brothers, best mate, parents) do it. Get them to register for viewings (even if they don't want a house) then they can reply and request a viewing for you, if they happen to get the email first. Then sit with your finger over the reply button while refreshing your gmail every two seconds for the relevant few days (office hours only thank God). The second that viewing email comes in hit reply and request a viewing. There may only be 30 houses and it's first come first served on replies, and you can be sure that there are hundreds like you, with their fingers hovering over reply. You basically get a viewing ticket, and then you come down on viewing day and queue up at the show office to put down your €5000 deposit. That's why, on viewing day, all the units were already gone.

It's not fair, I know, but it's the best Savills can do. It wasn't fair with the old queuing system where you'd be out with a flask of tea overnight in the middle of winter either.

Your only other option is to wait for second hand sales. The benefit of these is that the house usually has flooring and/or carpets, shelving etc already installed. You'd miss out on your new house grant though, so perhaps that isn't an option for you?

I passed the Mulberry show house this morning, which it seems they were furiously cleaning and hoovering. So that explains it. They must have viewings later in the week.

Hi Clay123

Local primary schools seem to be mainly mixed:

1. Holy Trinity is just behind the Dunnes Shopping Centre - about a 10 minute walk from Phase 2. Its a large "catholic" national school (though the religious aspect seems to be virtually non-existent in comparison to a previous national school my children were in. No harm, given the mix of kids in the school).
2. Stepaside Educate Together Primary School: about a 15/20 minute walk with kids, or a 5/10 minute drive (depending on morning traffic). It's in Belarmine rather than Stepaside really.
3. Gaelscoil Sliabh Rua: About a ten minute walk up the Ballyogan Road.
4. Gaelscoil Taobh na Coille: Beside the Educate Together school in Belarmine.

There's also St Mary's in Stepaside/Sandyford, but that would be a definite drive.

As for secondary schools, there is a dearth of public boys/mixed secondary schools in South Dublin. As far as I can see there are the following:

Public Mixed:

1. Stepaside Educate Together Secondary: Confusingly, this is not beside the primary school in Belarmine, but actually beside Holy Trinity behind the Dunnes. The kids are in prefabs at the moment, but the permanent school buildings are in the process of being built.
2. St Tiernans Community School: Near the Balally Luas stop. Historically that was the only secondary for boys in the area, before the Educate Together, and serviced a good few disadvantaged areas such as Ballyogan. That has led to it not having the best reputation but I can't vouch for what its like now. I saw some of the kids last week handing out flyers for their open evening near Dunnes and they seemed like a nice, polite bunch.

Public Boys Only

The only one I can think of that is in any way nearby is Oatlands in Stillorgan. A 20 minute cycle or drive for sure. It's a good school though, I have come across a lot of professionals over the years who went there.

Private Mixed

Wesley College in Dundrum. Good school - good sports facilities. It is protestant in ethos and will give priority to children of a protestant faith, so it may be hard to get into if you are another religion (or none).

Nord Anglia: Close to the Central Park Luas stop. Super expensive as they don't follow the national curriculum (they do the Bac, instead of the Leaving Cert). It seems to be only kids from ex-pats overseas, or kids of people who have relocated here from other countries and are working high up in the tech industry.

Private Boys Only

There's literally nothing close by. Your options would be Sandford Park or Gonzaga in Ranelagh, accessible via the Luas. Belvedere College in town again accessible via the O'Connell St Luas stop. I can't think of any others that might be on a public transport route or would be within reasonable cycling distance. There is of course Blackrock College, St Michaels etc but they would have to be accessed by car, and would be at least 30/40 minutes in the morning time.

The nearby housing estates that were built in the 90s were fine for the time but now we realise that we need to make more use of scarce urban land near rail transport.

You used to be able to squeeze through a fence and cross the field to get to the end of the road on the Gallops side, but now that they are building the new school at the side of the field that fence bit has been closed off. I haven't seen any other way through to it yet. It seems ridiculous that you have a ready built road there, that just needs to be joined to the back of the ballyogan estate and no one has bothered. I'd love if that road opened because it would be SO much easier to get to Westwood.