Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

What about going back to the beginning and having a cart race between them?

United States Grand Prix next weekend. I do like watching the races in the evening.

Rumor is that Petronas is leaving the Merc team next year. I read in a book about Brawn who were off trying to find sponsors before Merc bought the team that it was the most valuable sponsorship deal in F1 worth e30 million a year, Even paying part of Lewis's salary direct a few years later.

Wonder will INEOS pay up.

The rumour is that Aramco will be the new sponsor.

What about this season? Is there statistical data available that shows him "miles slower" than Vettel?

This rumour is becoming the new "Ferrari are going to launch a new break away series". Eddie Jordan was once adamant that Daimler-Benz were walking away once Petronas pulled out because the Malaysian GP was off the calendar and that Wolff was going to do a Brawn job on the team. It reignited when McLaren switched back to MB power units that the works team deal was back on as the parent company wound up the Brackley operation. While the ownership structure has changed Mercedes-Benz haven’t gone anywhere and McLaren barely acknowledge that they are running on MB power.

Ah yeah but his teammate is new. I though it was agreed that it took much longer than expected for the drivers who switched teams to settle in this year. Sainz settled in quickly, the rest didn't. He had the better of Vettel in the first few races but they have had a topsy-turvy season. Vettel has had 2 exceptionally lucky races where he found himself on the podium and with some extra luck, could have won them! But he has been consistently inconsistent this year. Stroll has failed to get out of Q1 a few times this year too! They're both pretty poor and Strol is still behind (because Vettel has scored 2 very unlikely podiums) even after being faster in the first few races.

Yeah they'll always be fighting with one hand behind their back if they always want Lance to be their top driver. They'd want a seriously dominant car to carry Lance to a championship.

But, as you say, they're pumping in a seriously lot of money and the facilities will surely help them in the years to come. These things take time to bed in though. It will take a few years yet to bring everything together even if things go relatively to plan.

Lance could always be kicked upstairs to a management role if they become serious title contenders and need a top driver.

Yeah he might have been ruthless and efficient in his core business thst made him wealthy, but he's treating F1 as a toy for his son and himself - for now while the investment ramps up. If he were being ruthless with his team then he probably wouldn't have hired Lance, and he certainly wouldn't keep him.

But this is a building phase, so there's no point getting the best drivers now as they don't have the car to make it worth their while. Instead they have a journeyman and an over-the-hill former world champion. That's fine for now.

Rumours were strong enough that they had to release a statement!

There are so many things to judge the "GOAT" on, winning X amount of championships in a row wouldn't be at the top for me.

I mean, if Lewis wins this season he's won 7 of the last 8... Even with the break, that's incredible.

I don't like Lewis, but there's no doubting he's a fantastic driver.

The massive gulf in difference between Schumacher and Hamilton is that Schumacher did win titles in the best car, but he also regularly showed himself to be comfortably the best driver on the grid in some really awful cars too. He won the title in a Benetton that could barely get into the top ten in the hands of other drivers. He fought championship battles in early Ferraris that were nowhere near the podium in the hands of other drivers. Then when Ferrari finally came out with a decent car he dominated, and continued to dominate even as the FIA did everything they could to keep changing up the technical rules to mix things up. He completely destroyed every teammate he ever had, including some great drivers like Massa and Barrichello who later fought for world championships in their own right.

On the other hand Hamilton didn't stand out without the best car on the grid. He was outscored by Button as teammate. He was beaten to a title by Rosberg as teammate. His mistakes landed him equal on points with Alonso despite Ron Dennis openly admitting the team were trying to stop Alonso beating him. The only teammates he's actually consistently beaten in his whole career are Kovalainen and Bottas, both of whom could do no better than joining back of the grid teams afterwards. When the McLaren was regularly one of the best cars, Hamilton just never got the most out of it the way Vettel did with the Red Bull and Alonso did with the Ferrari, and was in so many incidents with guys like Massa and Webber due to his poor racecraft.

Then finally he landed the Mercedes drive, who had been lobbying hard behind the scenes for the hybrid formula they'd been preparing an engine for for years. Once that engine was introduced the team had a huge advantage beyond anything Ferrari ever had, yet he still failed to consistently beat an average driver like Rosberg and lost one of the titles, but once Bottas was in place as a subservient teammate it was basically impossible to lose.

To sum up, Ferrari wouldn't have won those titles without Schumacher. Without him winning races and fighting for titles in some utterly dire cars, they wouldn't have attracted the sponsorship and technical staff to build up a title winning operation. And even in their title winning years, at least a couple of those were not in the clear best car and Schumacher had to work very hard for them. As for Mercedes, they'd have easily won the same number of titles without Hamilton. Their dominance of the hybrid era was already baked in before he joined them. Three quarters of the drivers on the grid would have as many titles as him in the same circumstance, a good few of them would have won more than him as they'd never have lost to Rosberg.

Schumachers decision to go to Ferrari when they were in the state they were, over McLaren who were openly approaching him, says it all to me. He wanted the challenge to make Ferrari into the team they should have been. He chose the very tough, unwalled path, and the rest is history.

This is the key one for me. To go to a team who'd gone so far backwards and help build it into what it became stands alone as what separates him from the others. I've no doubt he could have probably picked up two more championships in 96 and 97 had he stayed with Benneton. It's hard to argue that he didn't win any world championship in anything other than the best car, but it's about how he got there.

The biggest knock I have on Hamilton is that he hasn't won more given the cars he's driven. Arguably should have won in 07 with the full backing of the team, the hijinks that were going on with Alonso's car at the end of the year and that awful mistake in China. I'd give him a pass for this as it was his first year, but that McLaren was much better than the Ferrari that year. And of course 2016.

more cool.