The country is going well or disastrously depending on how you look at it

joseywhales · 17-10-2021 1:21pm

I have major concerns for this rock and hard place Ireland is in, with regard to energy independence. That would be my main concern for the country over the next century and they don't seem to have the politicians that are willing to take on personal risk to sort it out, particularly when politicians only worry about a 2-5 year horizon. Everything is more expensive than it should be because we import almost 100% of our energy. And it will become increasingly more expensive as we are forced to purchase carbon credits.

However, it's still better than the past. My parents were taxed more than they took home in the 80s. They both worked and raised four children. Put them all through uni, all married with houses and jobs and kids of their own. None of us have had to work as hard as my parents did to make that happen. You fix your own bike or car if you can, you paint your own house, build your own shed. The shopping, you buy almost whole animals, you eat all the cuts, heart, liver, kidney etc. You grow a few spuds and carrots. You mend your own clothes. There was definitely more hard work done by the average family back then. I was glad I didn't have to milk cows everyday like my cousins. And if you go back further it gets more laborious. My grandparents literally performed labor from waking to sleeping into their 80s. Life was never roses.

Floppybits · 17-10-2021 1:47pm

The country looks to be ticking along on the surface but below the surface the country is in bits. Our public services are broken or close to breaking point. The Gardai are a prime example of this with the scandals over the last while and the lack of response when called. We all know the health services have been on their knees.

Wanderer78 · 17-10-2021 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118032056#Comment_118032056

theres no bloody plan to destroy the country, our politicians and their advisors are just bloody clueless, and dangerously misinformed

Swaine · 17-10-2021 2:57pm

Ireland is more worried about gender equality and not upsetting some weird subsets of society, that seems to be their legacy.

Meanwhile, there's a generation surfacing that will have no chance of owning a home here while those that do are alright and fcuk the rest. They march for some criminal in America but sit quietly as house prices rise and rise out of their reach. Sums the youth of Ireland up.

Ireland is fake, this change in corporation tax rates will see Ireland knocked off its perch.

Wanderer78 · 17-10-2021 3:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118032431#Comment_118032431

say wha!

Beasty · 17-10-2021 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031694#Comment_118031694

Once people start to realise the carbon footprint all this "logistics" leaves I think there will be further pressures on the supply chain. Once this pandemic is over the next big challenge is going to be how to adjust to a way of doing things without so much damage to the environment. That is likely to push up prices, re-igniting inflation which in turn will push interest rates back up. There will need to be a serious amount of adjustment and things that people have taken for granted may not be as available/accessible as they were. We all will need to revisit our outlook on life, and businesses and governments will have to think again about this push to maximise growth (which ultimately drives extraction of limited resources available on this planet)

The "good news" is it's going to impact everywhere, meaning you cannot simply move to get away from of the impact....

Parachutes · 17-10-2021 8:41pm

I’d hate to see this country if Sinn Fein got into any meaningful power. They’d run us into the ground worse than the chancers all ready in government. I’ll be voting independents only from now on. I feel as if no major political party in Ireland represents me.

Larbre34 · 17-10-2021 9:07pm

The only thing Sinn Féin will romp to is the opposition benches, again.

Even if they blew apart all convention and on their very best day got 40% of the vote for about 55 seats (SF are seat bonus averse), thats still over one hundred seats held by people that won't work with them.

The only SF conversion into power is with an overall majority and thats impossible for them.

Gunmonkey · 17-10-2021 10:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118033515#Comment_118033515

I doubt the country will be massively worse off if SF got 5 years at the helm. There may even be one or two slight improvements, but it will massively scuff the veneer off SF of them being the solution to all of Ireland's ills! There will be no more blaming the Minister for Health/Justice/Social Prot/whatever when theres a crisis and "B-b-b-ut this is the fault of de previous Goverment! We cant fix it because they didn't fix it before!" doesn't fly anymore.

Maybe then there will be some acceptance that there are root and stem problems within all the major Gov branches that a Minister just throwing out policies will fix!

17-10-2021 11:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118033819#Comment_118033819

Unlikely. They're a party that never accept responsibility for anything... although then again, they're not that much different from the other political parties.

SF would find a wide range of excuses for their failures... and for their successes that resulted in negatives for the country. It'll always be someone elses fault.

17-10-2021 11:42pm

Ireland is doing what Ireland has always done. Give the false appearance that everything is going well, while the edges are fraying constantly. The decline in access to services, especially health, and Gardai coverage throughout the countryside is a fair indication of what's going on, since resources are being focused on the "cities" instead. If Ireland was doing well, there wouldn't be a need to do that. Throw in the national debt, the increases in costs for the taxpayer, all the while we're seeing greater expenditure on virtue projects. Nothing new, nothing to get alarmed over. Sure, it'll be grand.

Is Ireland doing well? Err.. kinda.. not really. We really need a coup, where our politicians are guillotined, and we generate a new crop of idealists wanting the best for the country. A move away from the constant need to virtue signal, and mortgaging the future of the next few generations, just to implement short term feel good projects with long term negative consequences.

But again, it's nothing new. FF with the Banking crash, and the subsequent running of the country/economy should have taught us all to be more resistant to the BS coming from politicians and government bodies.. but it hasn't. So many chances wasted. As long as the European/world economy remains stable... Ireland will stagger along, generating debt, and not improving the infrastructure of the nation, without serious problems... but should Europe stumble (which is very likely post covid) Ireland will face some serious problems. Problems caused over the last two decades but deferred until later to come into effect.

Sunny Disposition · 17-10-2021 11:43pm

It’s such a strange time really, society is definitely not content in the way it was approx 20 years ago, but the economy is very strong. There’s political upheaval on the way, too many people feel they’re worse off than they should be.

17-10-2021 11:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118034225#Comment_118034225

too many people feel they’re worse off than they should be.

Ireland has become a very expensive country to live in, especially if you ask the question what are you receiving for all those expenses?

Sure, France is extremely expensive, but the standard of health is excellent, and their infrastructure is superb throughout most of the country. Look at countries throughout Europe with a similar cost of living in terms of property, education, the raising of children, etc... and you'll find that the population receives a lot of benefits for the high cost. With Ireland, though, you have to think rather hard to see those benefits (that aren't already accessible in countries that cost a lot less, like Spain or Italy... and those being countries with shoddy economies)

The concern is why is Ireland so damn expensive, and there's no reason to believe that it won't become more expensive in time.

Sunny Disposition · 17-10-2021 11:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118032431#Comment_118032431

There is a tendency to ignore or minimise things that do affect an awful lot of people.

Even here in Clare it has become extremely expensive to rent, especially relative to wages. It’s only a few years since property was very cheap, but somehow the country sleep walked into this situation.

Somehow our governments didn’t have the imagination to pursue policies that would make sure enough homes were built, or didn’t think it was important enough.

Have a lot of concerns about SF in government, but the failure to ‘fix’ the health service which has been in crisis for nearly 30 years, and to do anything over the last five years to prevent a housing crisis means a big change is coming.

Really the country has never fully recovered from the last recession, the economy has to a large extent, but with new problems like a lack of housing and a strong feeling that many people have been left behind.

Brucie Bonus · 18-10-2021 9:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031627#Comment_118031627

I can never wrap my head around sticking with the people put us in massive debt and health and housing crises, as the best option to tackle it all.

They can't or won't.

Seriously, they've had decades to sort health. They created the housing crisis.

I don't for one minute think SF are the answer. I don't think any one party is. I think choosing parties that will act very differently to the current failed lot is the way to go.

I don't see how SF will destroy this country culturally when we've a coalition happy to celebrate Black and Tans and a 100 years of a divided nation. You can celebrate Irishness without demeaning or kissing the arse of other groups. And SF don't own the rights to that either.

We don't have to apologise celebrating Irishness nor do we have to include others. We seem to skip the celebrating and go straight to the 'we must remember the ordinary people who shot at us and fought against us having a say' ffs.

Vestiapx · 18-10-2021 9:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031286#Comment_118031286

What do you work at ?

18-10-2021 9:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038843#Comment_118038843

Financial services.

JDigweed · 18-10-2021 9:40pm

I wouldn't say they are the stats of a country in good shape to be honest.

Vestiapx · 18-10-2021 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038876#Comment_118038876

Ok but is that a wage erosion issue or a house price increase issue? In the 80s I earned 3 pound an hour and could have easily bought a house for 35 grand which would be worth up to half a mil now, also I was a kid and driving a forklift.

Oranage2 · 18-10-2021 9:54pm

Here's were our politicians have a conflict of interest, a lot have second and third properties so introducing a tax for second homes in against their own benefit. Also haven't the government invested in these vulture funds?

Chris_5339762 · 18-10-2021 9:59pm

In a general sense here (and the UK) the tax take does not cover everything that needs to be covered. In the UK, councils are going bankrupt.

We aren't far behind. It is getting so expensive (and difficult) to build anything useful or desirable with the result that the quality of life will decrease.

Think about it - loads of road projects sent to judicial review, loads of housing projects sent to appeal and review, even an extension to a hospital (Mater in Dublin) appealed. Its getting so expensive to do anything official, and the tax take is not going up to match this. National debt payments are taking an ever bigger chunk of money, and there is nothing that can be done about it. If the government try to fix all of these problems, taxes go up and a right wing lot (or Sinn Fein) will come in.

We won't be able to pay pensions by the time anyone in their 30s gets there.

The whole system is just completely and utterly broken and I don't know what the solution is. So I'd say we're going ok for now but the disaster is slowly happening in the background. Brexit aside (and we could get a broken set of politicians over here who would railroad it through, in theory) we will end up like the UK... on a slow inevitable demise.

18-10-2021 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038929#Comment_118038929

What I mean is my family was a single income working class family and they owned a decent house in a nice area.

I would have been a white collar banker back then. I could easily have afforded a few houses.

But now I can barely afford anything. And I earn well above the average salary. That's how fucked things are.

Brucie Bonus · 18-10-2021 10:46pm

I don't think property speculation should be allowed during a housing crisis. I'm not sure what the acceptable level of people who can't afford to buy is but we've been going in the wrong direction and its the same story for renting.

I pity anyone in their late 40's or older having to navigate the rental market. The older you get the worse it gets.

Anyone working should be able to afford to rent or buy. One or the other.

quokula · 19-10-2021 2:11am

Having lived abroad I've never come across anywhere that has "solved" housing any better than Ireland has, it's a global problem across the developed world. There is no unexplored land to go plant a flag in anymore, every bit of land that exists is already owned by someone who doesn't want to see it collapse in value, while the population keeps growing and therefore more and more houses are needed. The government can't just kick farmers off land they own to start building on it, and when developers do get a site to build on they're faced by heavy opposition from NIMBYs, so it's near impossible for housing to keep up with the population, which will inevitably lead to price rises when you match that to the increasing wages, employment rates and standard of living meaning everyone expects a big house with a garden rather than high density accommodation that was more common in the past.

What we do lack is infrastructure, as better transport links would allow people to live further from the city (though WFH should help with this). This is something we will always be playing catch up on as we were a colony while our neighbouring colonisers used many of our citizens as labour to build what remains the backbone of their transport infrastructure to this day. To build a mass transit system in the 21st century with our labour laws and safety standards costs an order of magnitude more than the initial cost of the systems in London, Paris etc

Sunny Disposition · 19-10-2021 9:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118039299#Comment_118039299

That anyone working full time should be able to buy a house should be a guiding principle in my view, but quite suddenly it's got to a stage where many people can't even rent. The Government are very opposed to large scale State-backed building, but unfortunately for them that is exactly what was required several years ago at this stage. It was anathema to the thinking in both of the established parties, but not doing it has been very costly.

Interestingly even though the State has failed to help working people get homes they're prepared to pay for, it seems there is a huge push to get free houses for people who don't work. Another issue, which no politician will ever address, is that social housing is very often going to people who are years out of work for no reason, and very often it is of a higher standard than private housing. It's insane, but so deeply established that it's rarely questioned.

Wanderer78 · 19-10-2021 9:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040347#Comment_118040347

again, we re currently experiencing a catastrophic failure in modern political and economic ideologies, the issue has little or nothing to do with the unemployed, we have largely failed to meet their fundamental needs, hence these outcomes, but things have now become so serious, most employees and many employers, are now in serious trouble also

19-10-2021 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040347#Comment_118040347

Planning permission is the major problem here, and the lack of tower apartment blocks that you find in other countries. Instead, there's an attitude that all modern building should be blocked. Either by the State, or by locals. Building apartment towers would alleviate the demand for property in a major way, since many single people would prefer to have a decent modern apartment over a house anyway.. It provides a gap before reaching the funds needed for a house, which has always been a major investment in modern economies.

As for planning permission, I know people who bought a site, and were denied planning permission for stupid reasons. The government has too much leeway to control how houses are built, and unless you have serious connections, or are building exactly how they want, you won't get permission. Which is what has stifled the building of new properties both in the cities and in rural areas.

It doesn't help that the cost of living and costs for just about anything, including building materials have increased so much in such a relatively short time. A mate of mine got his own house built 20 years ago, but when it came to building his daughters house (similar model), the cost to do so had sky rocketed, and even with the combination of her income and his input, the costs didn't make it worthwhile to do so.

19-10-2021 10:29am

What's depressing is the only alternative is SF. Which means more free houses for people who don't work, and more taxes for those who do.

Oranage2 · 19-10-2021 10:39am

Is it possible to start all over again? Build another city outside Dublin, lay the foundations for a metro, build nice high apartments, have cheap tax for corporations to move their offices to there, have it properly policed with a nice big hospital near by. I'm sure people would start to migrate there. No idea how much it would cost but surely is a better long term solution than paying for 100s of thousands of people in hotels.

Wanderer78 · 19-10-2021 10:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040632#Comment_118040632

oh ffs, again, our current issues have little or nothing to do with the welfare classes, we ve been following fundamentally flawed political and economic ideologies for a the last few decades, theyre starting to collapse now, very few, if anyone gets a free house, most pay rent and taxes. if alternatives such as sf play their cards right, workers hopefully wont see an increase in taxes, but if the status quo remains, workers more than likely will, as this is a fundamental part of these ideologies, i.e. reducing taxation on wealth, and moving it towards labour and consumption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040689#Comment_118040689

...once again, another part of these ideologies is to reduce taxation on wealth, in particular on large businesses and corporations, and .....

The country is going well or disastrously depending on how you look at it

Comments