Is Dave Chappelle's new special "The Closer" really transphobic?

Is this the joke about how do you keep a fool in suspense?

it's people getting offended on behalf others that is the problem, the "others" are usually lovely people who don't wish to cause a fuss

Dave Chapelle’s whole career has been based upon his being offended on behalf of other people, specifically black people in American society. It’s why he focuses on highlighting racial inequality and uses stereotypes to make his points through social commentary. Most of the time he does it through humour, but beneath the humour he’s making a serious point. Like when he made the special about the killing of George Floyd, or when he was talking about why he chose to do the Netflix specials. He couldn’t cancel Comedy Central or HBO, and when Netflix started streaming the Chapelle Show, he called them up and told them to stop because he was hurt.

He repaid them by agreeing to do the series of specials. He was obviously stuck for material so chose to highlight the fact that black people are treated lesser than the alphabet people, who had no quarrel with him whatsoever, until he started on them, and then claimed that they were coming for him, displaying a fairly shìtty victim complex in the process because people were offended by being the butt of his shìtty jokes.

There’s no question he tells a good story when he’s not trying to be funny -

Says you who tried to pull me up on my using the word negro in 2021, completely missing the point, and the reference?

If you say so.

you've heard of Dave chapelle yes?

Is there a character limitation on the new site design I’m unaware of lads? Has it actually morphed from a discussion site into an even poorer substitute for Twitter?

I’ve not only heard of him, but I’ve been a fan of his art for as long as he’s been a mainstream comedian catering for a mainstream audience.

Now, as far as @[Deleted User] is concerned, and you I suppose, you’re both suggesting that I’m not familiar with his work, for reasons which you appear determined to keep a closely guarded secret known only to yourselves. That’s cool ‘n’ all, it means yiz are right, according to yereselves. I’m happy for ye to keep it that way.

@[Deleted User] the reason I used the reference was simple - it was a tongue-in-cheek reference to Chapelle’s making the point that the person responsible for upholding standards on the network had a blind spot when it came to racism. According to them it was permissible for Chapelle to use the word which is blanked out by the swear filter on Boards, because he’s black, whereas he wasn’t permitted to use the other word which is blanked out by the swear filter on Boards, because he’s not gay. He was making the point that he’s not what is commonly considered a racist slur among white people either, with the effect that he was pointing out the double standards of the network that they didn’t see his attitude as racist, but they were quick to point out his attitude as homophobic. He elaborated further on the same point in his latest special -

Chapelle said; 

“DaBaby was the number one streaming artist until a couple of weeks ago. He took a nasty spill on stage and said some wild stuff about the LGTBQ community during a concert in Florida. Now, you know even I go heard in the paint, but even I saw that s–t and was like ‘God damn, DaBaby!’. Ooohhh, he pushed the button, didn’t he? He pushed the button — punched the LGTBQ community right in the AIDS. Can’t do that. 

“But I do believe that the kid made a very egregious mistake, I will acknowledge that, but a lot of the LGBTQ community doesn’t know DaBaby’s history, he’s a wild guy. He once shot a n—a and killed him in Walmart. This is true, Google it: DaBaby shot and killed a n—a in Walmart in North Carolina… nothing bad happened to his career.

“In our country, you can shoot and kill a n—a, but you better not hurt a gay person’s feelings. And this is precisely the disparity that I wish to discuss.”

He was making the point that he made in the last paragraph above, and he was right, as evidenced by the fact that more people in American society were upset by his transphobic comments, than they were about the killing of a black man.

I figured that @John Doe1 being familiar with Chapelle’s work would get the reference and know that it was tongue-in-cheek, I was hardly subtle in making the point that John is neither black, nor American, so it was understandable that he wouldn’t get where Chapelle was coming from, Chapelle being both black, and American.

What I didn’t expect, is that anyone who claimed to be familiar with Chapelle’s work, and is championing Chapelle as a genius and all the rest of it while he peppers his monologues generously with the n-word, would find it astonishing, ASTONISHING, that a white guy would use the word negro - fine with the black guy being racist, but leaps over themselves to point out that the white guy is racist, while complaining about cancel culture and how quick people are to take offence on behalf of other people. @[Deleted User] I didn’t realise you were black or transgender, unless you’re white and not transgender and it’s fine with you when black people are racist and transphobic? According to @John Doe1 it’s a comedians role to attack sacred cows and apparently for a lot of posters here comedy is all about insulting every group in society as though they’re all of equal status.

We’re all aware that in reality every group in society isn’t of equal status, and that the most sacred cow of all is still white straight men who can’t laugh at themselves, but always see themselves as the victim if anyone who isn’t a white straight man takes aim at them for satirical purposes. That’s called punching up. What Dave Chapelle was doing in his latest special, and what anyone is doing by using people who are transgender as a vehicle for comedy, or to make a point about free speech, is punching down, and that’s just shìtty, low-grade, cheap and easy humour, nothing particularly clever about it, let alone genius. It’s setting a low bar for genius if that’s the best anyone can do.

Dave is good when he sticks to what he knows, and leave the jokes about people who are transgender, to people who are transgender. Some crackers below, but this is one of my favourites -

Even after a six hundred word rambling post, you’re still missing the point that it isn’t permissible for a white guy to use the word negro, regardless of whether or not Dave Chapelle uses the word. You think I wasn’t aware of that? I’m as aware of that as Dave Chapelle is aware of the fact that people who are transgender aren’t to blame for the fact that American white society doesn’t give a shìt about black people.

It’s why I said from my very first post that Dave Chapelle isn’t transphobic, but the show definitely meets the criteria for what is considered transphobic, which is why I provided the definition of transphobia, so at least there was a commonly agreed standard by which an objective judgment could be made, regardless of people’s feelings one way or the other.

It’s fair enough I suppose to point out that I don’t know your views on any of the rest of it, but it doesn’t require a genius level intellect to figure out that it’s not unreasonable to deduce from the fact that you’re of the opinion that I’m unfamiliar with Dave Chapelle’s work, and that you were astonished I had the audacity the word negro in 2021, that your views of his work are quite different to mine. It’s ok though, because I have a black friend who thinks it’s hilarious, ‘no sacred cows’ and all that shyte.

Just because you struggle with or don't like reading apparently, you should stop trying to dismiss someone who is genuinely making an effort to support their position.

Simplistic off the cuff are all well and good, but this is a very nuanced topic and OEJ is at least putting some thought in to their argument. Maybe we'd know more about your views if you put similar effort in to your content.

Some women can't have children due to medical conditions,

they are still women ,

Men who self identify as women are still men who just happen to be trans ,

No such thing as bullying if that's the case the dunne, sure it's all just banter and horseplay amongst friends.

Things aren't always easily put in to boxes, no matter how easy it would make things if they were.

It sounds more like a BS excuse to be a dick tbh, and to play the victim when people tell you your jokes are shìt. The whole point of satire and observational comedy is to mock people in power, not to take pot shots at easy targets who don’t have anything like the power and influence that celebrities and politicians or even political movements have.

The whole reason it works is because it’s not ok to make jokes about people in power, they’re expected to be respected, rather than mocked. Mocking people with no power is just shìtty behaviour. Some people think that’s funny, but trying to hide behind equality as though everyone is actually treated as equals in society, especially in American society, is bullshìt.

I’d make allowances for someone who is autistic, that they don’t get nuance and satire, but someone who isn’t? They’re just pretending to be stupid. There’s no hard and fast rule that says everything is ok to make jokes about or nothing is, and people don’t have to accept that sort of bullshìt. It doesn’t excuse anyone being a dick, nor does it immunise them from criticism.

To give you an example, Succession is a satirical dark comedy based upon the Murdoch family and their influence in the media industry. ATN is like Fox News, known for peddling bullshìt. A headline like this wouldn’t look out of place on their news channel -

Obvious shìt about comparing periods to impossible burgers beet juice? That’s not funny, it’s just obvious, well below Dave Chapelle’s usual form. It’s why when he made the joke about “the alphabet people”, that was funny, because it was mocking the in-fighting and politics that goes on in a so-called “community”. It was using exaggerated stereotypes to point out that the stereotypes are bullshìt (six minutes in) -

Nobody seeks permission to make jokes about others, let’s not pretend anyone is or isn’t “allowed” to make fun of other people. They do it anyway, but getting pissy because people point out your jokes are shìt? That’s on you, the person telling the joke, it’s not the responsibility of people who are offended by your shìt.

Netflix don’t care either way, they’re making money off the whole thing the same way as they make money off documentaries like Disclosure, where people who are transgender were pointing out how they are already discriminated against in society because of the fact that they are transgender. That’s why your equality nonsense is bullshìt. You’re well aware of the discrepancies in how people are treated based upon their race, gender, sex and sexual orientation in American society.

You ignored the fact that I didn’t say satire is reserved for people in power. I said the point of satire, is to mock people in power, as opposed to taking pot shots at easy targets. It’s not just a definition I created to suit my argument, it’s what satire actually means -

I didn’t argue about whether humour is subjective or not either, you’re accusing me of making things up to suit my argument, but what have you just done? Humour is subjective, so I’m entitled to think a joke is shìt in the same way as you or anyone else is entitled to think it’s hilarious. Humour is subjective, but that doesn’t mean anyone can’t say a joke is shìt.

It certainly does take a special sort of arrogance to imagine you can declare anything for anyone else, and yet that’s what you’re doing when you declare that anyone else can’t identify themselves however they wish, because you think you have the authority to tell them what they are or they aren’t, or how they should or shouldn’t feel just because of your own feelings about Dave Chapelle or whatever other political or social ideological movement you find offensive or objectionable.

I know well why Chapelle is getting pushback - because he’s a multi-millionaire comedian who still makes out like he’s living in the projects and milking racism for all it’s worth, and it’s worth quite a lot, which is why he was begging his audience not to watch his show on Comedy Central, and instead watch his show on Netflix. Netflix are defending their investment, they couldn’t give a shìt about what Chapelle does or doesn’t say, he says whatever he wants, and some people lap it up like dogs because it’s appealing to their persecution complex that if any other groups in American society were to gain equal status with them, it’s taking something from them. There are plenty of people in American society who still think of black people, and people who are transgender, as beneath them, and that’s all this show gives legitimacy to. It doesn’t even promote your bullshìt about equality.

What Chapelle did isn’t brave, or satire, and that’s why for me it wasn’t funny. If comparing periods to vegan burgers is your thing, then sure, I can see how you’d find it hilarious altogether. Doesn’t mean it’s not just a low-brow pot shot at an easy target. That’s why people are pissed, because they didn’t do anything to deserve being shat upon from a height by Dave Chapelle, from a platform as big as Netflix. It’s not exactly a small audience like the school playground where jokes at that level are common as fcuk and you don’t have to pay anything to be an audience for them, and there’s nobody is going to tell special little you that your jokes are shìt.

The reason we’re unlikely to see any more Chapelle specials isn’t just because he’s worn out all the old tropes, it’s because it costs Netflix more to make the show, than the show brings in in revenue - hardly anyone has watched it, but Netflix can take the hit if it’s bringing in new subscribers and generating “diverse content” (read: content that gets peoples back’s up!). Netflix couldn’t care less about “promoting black and LGBT creators”, and I know you’re well aware of that, which is why your whole “equality” shtick just doesn’t wash.

@One eyed Jack The reason we’re unlikely to see any more Chapelle specials isn’t just because he’s worn out all the old tropes, it’s because it costs Netflix more to make the show, than the show brings in in revenue - hardly anyone has watched it, but Netflix can take the hit if it’s bringing in new .

Hardly anyone has watched it , seems millions Have watched and still rising , hundreds of thousands of views here considering it was one of the most watched shows here all last week ,

It's safe to say we will be seeing more Chapelle specials on Netflix ,

So after a 2 weeks they have more a less made their money back ,and it's going to be on Netflix for 12 months ,

Comparing to the biggest show currently on Streaming services ,oh look nobody is watching it ,

Nice try - but millions have watched it ,and a handful of complaints so much for outrage

Claiming nobody watched it is utterly false millions have watched it ,and a tiny few complaining about it and usually the people complaining haven't watched it , it was the the exact same story when JK Rowling released her last book ,it's transphobic ,it's bigoted , it's anti this and that ban the book and JK Rowling ,and guess the book was neither transphobic or bigoted but that didn't stop a small cohort claiming otherwise .

everyone just needs to stfu, everything is shite ,get on with it...

I think US "liberals arts/social sciences" have shown how influential they are. Previously the ideas emanating from them could be dismissed as "ivory tower" stuff, divorced from regular mainstream life. But now, we are seeing the trans activists (minority with a tiny minority) platform, racial essentialism, and other ideas in common use in mainstream media and even workplace training.

As Andrew Sullivan (journalist, and once considered a gay activist) says, "we are all on campus now".

Andrew Sullivan: We All Live on Campus Now (nymag.com)

It might be helpful if Andrew didn’t contradict himself within the same article - complaining largely about identity politics and how it favours identities over ideas, then ending his piece by focusing on identities over ideas -

The reason I don’t agree with this is because I believe ideas matter. When elite universities shift their entire worldview away from liberal education as we have long known it toward the imperatives of an identity-based “social justice” movement, the broader culture is in danger of drifting away from liberal democracy as well. If elites believe that the core truth of our society is a system of interlocking and oppressive power structures based around immutable characteristics like race or sex or sexual orientation, then sooner rather than later, this will be reflected in our culture at large.

————

As for objective reality, I was at an event earlier this week — not on a campus — when I made what I thought was the commonplace observation that Jim Crow laws no longer exist. Uncomprehending stares came back at me. What planet was I on? Not only does Jim Crow still exist, but slavery itself never went away! When I questioned this assertion by an African-American woman, I was told it was “not my place” to question her reality. After all, I’m white.

———

If there is a crisis, it is a continuing one for transgender women of color. Their lives are fraught with threats and danger. A report that sought to figure out how we can improve things for these most vulnerable people would be helpful. A report that hypes largely meaningless stats to assert a wave of politically motivated murders of gay people is not.

My point has always been that liberals and leftists made their bed, they complain about all these things now when they themselves are on the receiving end of the shìt that they were dishing out, and now they’re seeking sympathy from wider society by trying to portray themselves as “I’m one of you guys, and look what these people are doing to us”. It’s nothing liberals haven’t been trying to do for decades already, and it’s still pretty much contained within their own sphere. The majority of people in the US don’t give a fiddlers about “public discourse”, they don’t care for discourse full stop. They only care about things which they are directly affected by, so Andrew bemoaning the lot of ‘transgender women of colour’ while also complaining about an identity-based social justice movement, while complaining about being put back in his box by an ‘African-American’ woman, suggests that Andrew is trying desperately to play the victim, and trying to convince people that they’re all victims too, when in objective reality it’s just the manifestation of Andrew’s world view coming back to bite him in the arse. Nobody else is feeling butt-hurt by it.

I dunno how anyone can claim it’s not transphobic when it perpetuates negative stereotypes and irrational fears of people who are transgender. That’s the very definition of transphobia, unless people who claim it’s not transphobic are working off a definition which suits themselves.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t parts of it are funny, like his ‘tribute’ to his friend at the end of the show, but most of it is just recycling the same old stereotypes that were never clever jokes in the first place, they were just obvious, low-hanging fruit type jokes about people who are transgender.