Traffic Congestion.

20-10-2021 4:39pm #1

Is it me or has traffic really got worse since even before covid ?

The amount of crashes on the N7 is unreal, what are they going to do about people using their phones ? this is probably worse than Drink driving, this is a lot of road missed by the time they fumble around with the phone.

I wonder who's working from home and if they have the chance why would they sit in all that traffic clogging roads for those who need to use them ?

I think it's really time Ireland introduce flexible hrs by law and not leave it to the discretion of the company in many instances it shouldn't matter what time you start/finish as long as the work is done, sure there certain times this isn't possible but it's possible for a lot of People.

The N7.M50 mostly isn't fit for purpose, the slip roads are too many and too short, why can't we have proper multi story over passes like they can in other countries ? look at long mile road junction for instance, a complete and utter joke.

Murph85 · 20-10-2021 4:44pm

its an absolute farce, they build a sprawling car dependent city. Appalling public transport... as good as free motor tax on most cars... Then the roads here, for a car dependent city, they are what you would expect to find in a modest size town. Its so typically Irish...

In my area in Dublin, they are constantly reducing the amount of lanes? the result? way more congestion, air pollution and the public transport, held up far longer, because the roads are not wide enough for dedicated bus lanes! Its total and utter lunacy!

donvito99 · 20-10-2021 7:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049310#Comment_118049310

The bus service would be class if the roads weren't completely given over to general traffic.

20-10-2021 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050041#Comment_118050041

That’s the issue. The buses are slow because there is so much traffic. But no one will get out of their cars, because the buses are so slow. Because of all the cars

Murph85 · 20-10-2021 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050041#Comment_118050041

no it wouldnt, stopping every few seconds, still accepting cash! they are insufferable!

20-10-2021 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050408#Comment_118050408

I find it a little strange how drivers seem content to leave things how they are, despite the hours spend in the traffic and congestion

donvito99 · 21-10-2021 8:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050408#Comment_118050408

Capped congestion charge on general traffic at peak times to cross the canals (exempting commercial vehicles) to pay for all bus fares - problem solved.

Miscreant · 21-10-2021 8:51am

Traffic is definitely worse than before Covid. I think part of the reason is a lot of people who used Public Transport to get to work before, are now using their cars as they may be hesitant to get back on a packed bus/train. I am seeing traffic jams around my housing estate that were never there before Covid and they have been gradually building up since the summer.

Murph85 · 21-10-2021 8:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051952#Comment_118051952

I would agree with a euro or one euro fifty cent charge to cross the canal. This money should be ringfenced for public transport and particularly rail investment in the Dublin area...

3rd world infrastructure in dublin and as good as free motor tax, no congestion charges and no tolls for most people. A sprawling car dependent city... what do you expect?

Flinty997 · 21-10-2021 9:44am

There is no solving the problem of traffic. Other than not be traffic.

If traffic is a problem for you, then its likely you are also traffic. Catch 22.

Andrewf20 · 21-10-2021 11:51am

M4 - M50 commuting here. I dont think its worse than before covid. M4 is the same as 2019 in the morning, the M50 seems a little faster moving southbound. Evening traffic northbound is around 70% of what it used to be.

Flinty997 · 21-10-2021 2:46pm

In the city areas I travel. Roads lanes have been reduced, lights changed to give longer to pedestrians during lockdown, not switched back as far as I know, and many new one way roads and other turning restrictions. Mostly not effected though as I'm WFH.

magicbastarder · 21-10-2021 2:53pm

simple; canvas your local TDs for improved public transport and cycling facilities.

21-10-2021 2:54pm

I think the N7 is definitely much worse not to mention the near daily crashes.

Public transport is a serious issue. I can't take it, not a hope and most people are the same, you either come to Dublin city or nowhere on a train commute to Dublin, get a train to the city and spend 1 hr on a bus to get where you want ?

No Underground ? seriously, this isn't even on the thoughts of any ministers. Dublin needs a subway system and the longer we put it off the worse it will be.

The multistore overpasses don't exist here, again, we do things half assed, the Irish way, traffic must end with lights or roundabouts all the time or slip roads are inadequate and even exiting most of the N7 you end at a roundabout in queues of traffic, again, no proper overpasses, just slip roads to roundabouts.

Buddy Bubs · 21-10-2021 7:01pm

Traffic is human behaviour, look at all the single occupancy cars. I'd wager at least some of them don't need to be commuting on their own in a car and have plenty of options. Not all before anyone takes it that I'm saying that.

Roads can cope very well with certain traffic levels and slowdowns increase exponentially the more that level is exceeded.

I only have a 6km trip to work and I could get train or cycle but I don't. However I can't stand people in wok complaining about traffic when they live even closer than I do. You are the traffic.

I work from home until after 9 and hit the office for about 930 and traffic is gone. I make sure I leave before 5 and I get home handy too, might do a small bit ar home if I have to.

That 6km journey could be 30 mins at peak times, feck that

Chiparus · 21-10-2021 7:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052047#Comment_118052047

there is already a congestion charge on the Port tunnel €10 at peak times, seems to work , a euro charge won't stop anyone.

magicbastarder · 21-10-2021 7:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118054823#Comment_118054823

it's kinda nuts how inefficient single occupancy cars are. for example, if you were to park up the entire 'three lane' M50 (i.e. from the M1 junction to the sandyford exit) with cars - allowing 5m per car, all four lanes in each direction, you'd get a little over half the capacity of croke park with one occupant per car.

Del2005 · 24-10-2021 8:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050227#Comment_118050227

The trip from my home to the city centre on the bus is ~50 minutes off peak and just over an hour peak. Public transport is already full at peak time so even if there were no cars on the roads how many buses would we need to transport all the people at peak and what would we do with them off peak, because running 11 tonne vehicles nearly empty isn't very good for the environment and leaving expensive vehicles sitting isn't good for the taxpayer.

whippet · 24-10-2021 8:29am

If your sitting in the traffic .. remember you are part of the problem.

no point moaning about those who are in rush hour traffic when you are doing the exact same thing.

4 years ago our company did a study on how long we all spent sitting in traffic / m50 / fuel burned / toll charges and switched the whole company to remote working .. the office is still there if we need / want it .. 10% of the staff go to the office more than once a week .. productivity / staff retention and profits are increased .. which has been verified by consultants who did a review.

hopefully covid will bring more employers in to the same line of thinking

24-10-2021 10:35am

We really do need flexible working laws in Ireland and not leave it at the discretion of the company.

I have no choice but to take the car and car pooling would not be practical and there's only 3 of us + there's no one that I can drive to work nor could drive me but more should be done to incentivise car pooling. Free tolls, reduced tax etc.

One issue I would have with car pooling is if people are not Punctual, I'm a very punctual person and it annoys me when People are 10 mins + late. Late picking me up either end or not ready when I'm there to pick them up would drive me nuts.

Sam Russell · 24-10-2021 10:41am

If buses travel 50% faster due to less congestion or proper bus lanes, then 100 buses will do the work formerly done by 150 congested buses. If a bus can travel faster than previously, then it will attract more commuters. As more commuters travel by bus rather than car, this will reduce congestion. A win win situation.

They could start this effect by reducing the availability of on street parking, and using this reduction to improve the reach of bus lanes.

Of course, proper enforcement of bus lanes is an obvious starting point. Whatever happened to those traffic wardens?

24-10-2021 10:42am

I was coming from the Blanch site Friday evening and the Red Cow Junction is a horrendous joke, backed up for miles along the M50 Slip road North, half the M50 heading for the N7 and it's chaos and highly dangerous with trucks.

Why did we never get proper fly-overs in our design of roads, it's a very poor job, we must be a laughing stock, slip roads then end with a roundabout at other Motorway exits. Causes Chaos at City West and Rathcoole which are more junctions not fit for purpose.

You can say what you want about the amount of cars on the road but the reality is the road network is extremely poorly designed and inefficient. And we're decades away from a proper public transport network and why the continued resistance to a Subway System in Dublin is a complete and utter mystery. They can only think more buses but they need to start moving People underground. It's really sad in 2021 that a subway system isn't even being thought about.

It can take me 1 hr 10 mins to 2 hrs to get from Carlow to Blanch leaving at 8 am, that's a joke!

zell12 · 24-10-2021 11:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052020#Comment_118052020

According to the CSO, it is not worse. It is roughly the same. And buses are now full at peak times

Sept 2021 - 'car traffic volumes are now at 90% of Aug 2019 levels in Dublin area and 88% of Aug 2019 levels in regional locations. HGV traffic volumes are 3% higher in Dublin and 4% higher in regional sites compared with the same week in 2020'

24-10-2021 11:37am

N7 traffic is definitely a lot worse.

It would be good if they could ban HGV at peak times. There's more and more HGV using lane 2 and 3 today than ever and refusing to move back to lane 1.

markpb · 24-10-2021 8:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065797#Comment_118065797

Those HGVs are making trips that do not usually have an alternative. The same cannot be said for all the motorists on the same road.

24-10-2021 11:16pm

Maybe not for them all but certainly not for me giving the nature of my work.

I struggle to understand why anyone would choose to sit in such traffic if they have an alternative ?

24-10-2021 11:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069325#Comment_118069325

I think that many people like it. Perhaps it’s convenient time spent away from pressures at home, or else the only ‘alone time’ people have. That is genuinely the only reason that I can think of for the lack of appetite to do anything about it

Whatwicklow · 25-10-2021 6:44am

The n7 merely moves the traffic closer to the m50 quicker.

You can't get in to the m50 quicker, so it tails back.

More lanes, flyover, longer slips don't discourage the problem which is cars.

Cars create traffic, not bus's cyclists pedestrian etc.. Fix the problem

25-10-2021 7:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069338#Comment_118069338

I don't believe anyone wants to sit in such traffic by choice. Like me, many, most People have no choice.

Even back roads are chocked due to sat navs diverting people the same roads, I couldn't count the amount of times Waze lead me into more traffic than it got me out of...... Google isn't a whole lot better, but it is better.

25-10-2021 7:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069580#Comment_118069580

The slip roads greatly slow down traffic on the N7 because they are completely inadequate and traffic jumps onto the n7 mostly at very slow speeds slowing the N7 down.

The M50 isn't actually that bad once you get on it heading north, again, from the N7 the slowdown and tailbacks are mostly due to the M50 slip road, completely inadequate and the traffic from Clondalkin/Luas merging there at that point is a disaster.

Poorly designed roads. They need companies experienced with creating proper road networks to design the roads in Ireland because no one has a clue here.

But if we could get more People working from home it would be better.

AndrewJRenko · 25-10-2021 8:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069663#Comment_118069663

Lots of people choose to drive for short journeys that are easily walked or cycled. So they really are sitting in traffic by choice.

blackbox · 25-10-2021 8:37am

With all the bus lanes there are now, there is no valid excuse for the buses to be slow.

There are too many stops and it takes far too long for passengers to get on.

Citrus_8 · 25-10-2021 8:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065218#Comment_118065218

Off peak some busses go back to a garage. So they don't run empty. That's why there's a schedule: frequency is better during peak times and worse off peak to adapt to the passenger numbers change. There are a few types of driver shifts, and one of them is peak time driver with a few hours break during off peak hours.

AndrewJRenko · 25-10-2021 8:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069780#Comment_118069780

Apart from the many trucks, vans and cars that park in the bus lanes "just for a few minutes" and the construction companies that use bus lanes for queuing up their deliveries, there are no valid excuses.....

billyhead · 25-10-2021 12:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069770#Comment_118069770

True. It's a combination of lazyness and habit. If people walked or cycled more and realised the convenience and health benefits aswell as the savings in cost there might be a reduction in the use of cars for short journeys. No wonder we have a high proportion of the population obese.

25-10-2021 5:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118068565#Comment_118068565

I'm not against HGVs but they are definitely in the wrong lanes a lot more now, they can only drive in Lane 1 so says the rules of the road but they are regularly in the middle lane 2 on the N7 and even 3 and Lane 2 on the M9 taking forever to overtake another truck.

It should be at least considered to reduce or remove HGV from rush hour on the busiest roads where possible, no doubt that would kick up a stir. More freight by rail perhaps ?

Larbre34 · 25-10-2021 5:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069780#Comment_118069780

Of course there is. Very few bus routes enjoy a fully segregated lane for their entire journey.

Also when there is general congestion, left turning vehicles can and do hold up bus lanes from getting through junctions.

It doesn't take much of the above to throw a bus service way off timetable.

25-10-2021 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071598#Comment_118071598

Guards handing out on the spot fines to cars that go into the bus lane to queue miles before the next left turn / filter would speed bus traffic considerably. On the Chapelizod road, my old neck of the woods, the bus lane would often be backed up 100m or more by stationary cars trying to turn left into Phoenix Park or Parkgate Street. A stroll down the line handing out fines to everyone every half hour would knock ten minutes of the travel time of the 25 or 26

Wildly Boaring · 25-10-2021 6:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071550#Comment_118071550

I'm pretty sure that's wrong.

No rule against HGV in lane 2 AFAIK. But not allowed in 3?

HGV in lane 1 of M50 must be a disaster. Amount of poor and inconsiderate drivers is through the roof.

Poor - not accelerating to speed. Or jumping into brake zones.

Inconsiderate - skipping up the outside of a q in auxiliary lane to literally stop in lake 1 and force their way in. Undertaking in auxiliary lane and forcing back into labe 1 in front of HGVs.

As for reduced HGV numbers at peak. Sure peak seems to lady from 07:00 to 09:30 and from 16:00 to 18:30 on those roads.

We'd be seeing empty shelves like brexitland

Tea drinker · 25-10-2021 6:27pm

It seems worse but there's 2 things I can point out

(IMHO) There's been substantial vandalism of traffic lights and junctions to impede cars movement.

The standard of driving has plummeted, even now with many people back driving for a while you really have to watch yourself.

Almost crashed into by a lad very late running red light, he genuinely fvcked up and profusely apologised.

Yesterday I was turned in on (maybe deliberately, there's a lot of mental health issues out there) and had to stick the car to the road to barely avoid a collision.

People randomly changing lanes... "la dee da" swing in swing out.

The poor driving results in more accidents = more delays. M50 a car park going north today.

25-10-2021 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071739#Comment_118071739

No trucks are not permitted to use lane 2 of a 2 lane motorway or lane 2 or 3 of a 3 lane motorway.

From the rules of the road page 8. https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/motorway_driving.pdf

"Do not use the outside lane if you are driving: • a goods vehicle with a maximum authorised mass (MAM) of more than 3,500 kilogrammes such as a lorry or heavy goods vehicle; • a vehicle towing a trailer, horsebox or caravan. You may use it, however, in exceptional circumstances when you cannot proceed in the inner lane because of an obstruction ahead."

So, Outside lane is lane 2 of a 2 lane motorway or lane 3 of 3 lane so I was wrong about the 3 lane HGV can seemingly use lane 2 of a 3 lane seems ridiculous really.

I really do believe HGV should drive more at night, not always possible, but definitely HGV should be more off peak. I can't see it effecting supplied in supermarkets etc if deliveries can come in at different times or night time.

markpb · 25-10-2021 8:02pm

So far this thread has blamed road design, junction design, bus lane design, poor drivers and mental health issues for congestion. If any of those are actually the cause , there must be a city somewhere they doesn’t have those issues and congestion isn’t a problem?

Wildly Boaring · 25-10-2021 8:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072045#Comment_118072045

Sorry.

Yeah we're saying the same thing.

You were moaning about m50 and n/m7.

Both 3 lane.

So trucks allowed in lane 2

26-10-2021 7:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072150#Comment_118072150

I'm sure every country have their traffic issues but there's no denying that our roads are poorly designed, the straight bits on the open road out of Dublin might be fine but where it gets much more complicated to design roads in Dublin, on ramps/off ramps for example, Ireland fails miserably. Off ramps off a major road ending at a roundabout is also a disaster.

3 lanes is not enough for the volume of traffic we have in Ireland on certain roads.

Look at the long mile road junction, a complete and utter joke with traffic lights and the Luas has to stop there too. Should be proper over/under pass there. Just 1 of many examples.

El Tarangu · 26-10-2021 8:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073216#Comment_118073216

Building extra lanes doesn't solve anything - increased capacity rapidly becomes filled up by additional people commuting from further and further away. It's a phenomenon called 'induced demand'.

Additional tolling on the M50, and a benefit-in-kind tax on parking spaces provided by workplaces would ease traffic congestion a little.

SupplyandDemandZone · 26-10-2021 8:27am

Seen a guy on the way to work this morning with his tablet on the dash watching what looked like breaking bad whilst driving on the N11.

Clown like this cause accidents that grind everything to a halt.

whippet · 26-10-2021 8:52am

the general consensus here from those who are stuck in the rush hour is that the traffic is the fault of all other road users, the infrastructure, bus lane hoggers, HGVs etc.

The reality is that the problems are due to the volume of people who want to go to the same couple of square miles every day at the same time ... so if you are one of these you are part of the problem. Grant it many people might not have any choice but to be part of it and I was one of those for years. Until employers and employees actively look at options that does not entail everyone having to be in the city at the same time every day these problems will persist. If you can tell me of any capital city in the developed world where traffic is free flowing during rush hour I'd love to know.

Even the likes of Stockholm is mental with traffic in the morning if you choose not to take public transport or cycle.

The days that I do need to go to the office now - I drop the kids to school and then come down the M1 / M50 at about 9:30 and the actual driving time is about half of what it would be if I aimed to be in the office for 9am.

Miscreant · 26-10-2021 8:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073216#Comment_118073216

I agree with @[Deleted User] here. The LUAS should have either been elevated at junctions or tunnelled under. It causes absolute mayhem where I live when it cuts diagonally across a major junction and stops traffic from 4 directions. Before the LUAS, there were rarely traffic snarl ups in this area unless someone had an accident (and I am aware that traffic volumes were lower 17 years ago, however when the LUAS signalling was officially switched on here, the traffic problems started immediately and have not been resolved since).

As with everything in this country, there is no real forethought on how to build something and future proof it. Getting people out of their cars only works if there are viable alternatives and that is not the case for a lot of the "commuter belt". I am lucky in living 15 minutes from where I work but I know people coming from places like Carlow, Portlaoise and Cavan who sit in traffic simply because there is no alternative for them. For these individuals to take Public Transport, it would take over 2 hours (and not just because of traffic but because they would have to change bus/train a couple of times on the journey) whereas the car takes a little over half that. That time and effort saving is nothing to be sniffed at and I don't think that any measure short of banning cars and only having public transport on the roads during the morning commute will solve this.

Stats are showing that our traffic is not at peak levels and we are a little below what our Pre-Covid peak was, however from my experience and that of others I work with and my own family, there has definitely been a pick up of traffic on urban roads as more people are taking the car these days. One only has to look at the number of passengers on the LUAS or bus services. They are not back to full load so how are those who are not using the services getting to work? By car, on the same roads.... that is how.

There must also be something else at play as quite a lot of my colleagues are still working from home or only commuting 2 days to the office. If everyone was doing it, then the traffic should be much lower than it is. Perhaps there have been a lot of traffic signal, junction layout and one way system changes during the various lockdowns that are causing this issue now and people will have to get used to it (as I doubt anything will be changed back.... we don't do that, as a general policy for some reason). I have certainly come across some traffic lights that have had their sequences shortened so that only 3 or 4 vehicles can get through. Staggering of traffic lights seems to be a lost art as well, seeing as you can have a green in your favour, only to be put to a red about 100m down the road and have to stop while the traffic piles up behind you. I think a lot of the traffic flow measures are dreamed up by people who have no idea what the local area is experiencing and a lot of the "traffic modelling" done in the past 18 months has been with greatly reduced volumes. Perhaps we will see a change soon but I won't hold my breath.

zell12 · 26-10-2021 9:14am

Indo suggests that those who used the bus, are not doing so now - Traffic hits pre-Covid levels as workers shun public transport

Eamonn Ryan on Radio1 now confirming that 30% of traffic is school-related

magicbastarder · 26-10-2021 9:37am

The LUAS should have either been elevated at junctions or tunnelled under. It causes absolute mayhem where I live when it cuts diagonally across a major junction and stops traffic from 4 directions. Before the LUAS, there were rarely traffic snarl ups in this area unless someone had an accident

how much extra would it cost to tunnel the luas? if the luas should be tunnelled, it should be tunnelled for the benefit of the luas, not for the benefit of the other traffic in the area. the luas has a carrying capacity far in excess of what the roads around it have, and it's the transport option which should take priority.

Murph85 · 26-10-2021 9:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073590#Comment_118073590

I just read that article... dublin has no transport system. Buses stop every few seconds, they still take cash for god sake! Why would you get out of your car ? They were constantly reducing road space, the buses are being held up more and more because of it, when they dont have their own dedicated lanes...

If they think people will get out of cars, when they pay as good as no motor tax. We have a third world public transport system, an entirely car dependent sprawl of a city. I'm sorry, it is the idiots in charge that are responsible...

Traffic Congestion.

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