Proposed New suckler Scheme

This is it, the BETTER calf to beef farms were only set up in the last couple of years. There was absolutely no research done in the 2010-2016 period when Teagasc and Jack Kennedy were pushing the Greenfield model and the JE cross breds. There was multiple research done on rearing dairy heifers and huge attempt to try to encourage beef farmers to go rearing dairy heifers for these better dairy farmers. However the spending was miniscule compared to the spending on Suckler research.

There has being absolutely no research done on dairy calf to beef until 2-3 years ago except for U16 month FR bulls. I actually had a discussion with a Teagasc advisor involved they were showing a margin of 10-150/ unit. I made the point that such a system was unsustainable, his point was you needed numbers. I made the point that 200 would leave you 25k.......for that you had to rear 200 calves and feed 200 bulls at the same time. After thinking about it for over a minute he just walked away. You need to be working at it full-time from Jan-May.

All the research at present Is for finishing as many as possible off grass during the second season.....what a about all year around beef supply. Instead we seemed to be looking for an answer in the lowest priced time of year for beef. There is more research done on meal feeding to cattle( mainly Suckler bred) than on dairy X cattle production. It's hard to believe 65-70% of our total beef production is from the dairy herd.

What you are saying makes common sense, but common sense is not that common. With a movement of BPS from the east of the country west there is a case for no further increase in Suckler cow funding. Most farmers along the west coast have seen an increase in there BPS over the last 5years and will again see an increase over the next few years. If a farmer wants to subsidize the Suckler cow and processor's out of his BPS so be it.

I was down in Kerry a couple of weeks ago and there is an increased interest in sheep with the stronger sheep price. A lad able to wean 0.8-0.9 lambs per ewe is making a few bob. You would keep 8-10 mountain ewes where you keep a large Suckler cow. There would be less work. Store lambs are making over 2/kg. On 100ewes that is probably 6k plus in sales.

When you getting your flock number?

Sheep farming isn’t easy, like all other farming in a good setup it can be ran alongside a full time job

I see the Rag is trying to create panic again about Suckler farmers. Basically they are highlighting that full time intensive larger suckler's farmers will see there BPS payment fall. No mention that extensive, smaller part-time lads will see there's rise and similar with extensive sheep farmers. Once again they are taking the example of the 1-2 per parish as opposed to the majority.

It an article by some Tool of a journalist so we should not be tool surprised. Selective analysis of a situation. The Rag must have some research done that only intensive Suckler farmers buy the rag

But the problem is that if a lad is doing dairy beef he gets no handout. We had a poster state that a suckler's bred steer will kill 40 kgs heavier than a dairyX steer at 22-24 months. However that 40 kgs is subisidized by payments. Suckler payments amount to 160-180 euro, or 4-4.5/ kg for this extra beef. There is no economic advantage to it for the country and lads on good land should not be subsidized to produce it as there is other options available to them.

As well as BPS flow west it negate's the case for any Suckler payments, it especially negate's the case for any extra payments. It's better to redirect Suckler subsidities into better environment payments and into proper dairyX beef research on extensive farming and on poorer quality ground.

At present the UK is preparing legislation to stop long haulage of cattle. I think they are going to reduce to 4-6 hours the length calves can travel in one go. In the same legislation they plan to stop the live export of finished cattle and sheep.How long before France brings in similar legislation.

This will not only see the ending of export of calves but weanlings also. Any subsidity for suckler's should be directed to there reduction. Last year we imported 750k lambs, while processors use them to control prices to an extent they also need them for throughput. We could have a situation in 3-5 years time where certain processing units will close from January to June as they will not have throughput to remain open. You would not have strong winter lamb prices then

And that’s your choice

If someone else took it or did a bit of overtime at work for increased pay that’s their choice

A producer has little choice but to sign up in a situation like that. I was totally against both BEAM schemes. That doesn't necessarily make them correct. TBH it would make more sense to pay a subsidity to calf producers as the calves will appear on the ground anyway and production would not increase because of it or decrease if it did not exist. However in general most of it would disappear into dairy farmers pockets if paid on a calf, and into processor's pockets if paid at slaughter. We only have to look back 25+ years ago when there was a winter slaughter premium from January on, processor used to drop the beef price when it was being paid.

You’ll be able to buy a few more in Carnaross tomorrow night.

Scheme has to be seen as a positive.

This reference year BS is not though. Why do they need to bother with reference years, it's not as if there's a que of Farmers trying to get into suckling. If anything this extra 1k from the scheme probably won't stop lads getting out. You'll find that it will be next impossible to be in the new Glas and keep a meaningful stocking density of sucklers

If you look back over my posting on this issue I have always qualified my points against too high Suckler support. In places along the west Coast there is little choice but either Suckler cows or sheep at present. This is mainly no research has been carried out on what farm operations are viable on poorer type land.

However any support should not encourage those on muddling to better type land to go into, expand or dare I say it stay in suckler's.

Capping numbers by a quota may seem harsh but it prevents an explosion in supply. Lads can look for extra money off environmental schemes. As well CRISS Greening and convergence will also help smaller farm units on middling type land. Top up on Criss is 44/ HA on first 30 HA. Convergence to 0.85 of the national average will see minimum payment hit 210/ HA. Capping will also start to limits lads ambition.

I had not seen the dairy calf measure that Grueller mentioned. However it is still a very limited fund. But it would allow 500k dairy Criss calves to be weighted at 40/ calf. There is 1.6 million dairy cows. Take away 300k for replacement heifers and 200 k for export it means it's only available to less than 50% if these calves. Having said that it would give a 1600 euro payment to the lad with 40 calves if it went that far.

Finally the government did not pick any stupid options so far as I can see. It avoided an early slaughter bonus which would have transferred funds to meat processor's and it kept the young farmer funding at a minimum rate which is often only a larger farmer/dairy operations slush fund

Traditionally Bass, based on AIM figures, 30% of dairy calves are replacement heifers. On 1.6 million cows that is 480,000 replacement heifers.

That leaves, 1.12 million calves. Remove 5% mortality of that and it is roughly 1.07 million calves. Now remove the 200,000 exported (for how many more years is anyone's guess) and we have 870,000 calves eligible for the scheme. Conservative estimates would say that figure would be down to 750,000 with lads not interested in taking part.

Now divide the €25m by the 750,000 and it leaves €33.33 per calf. Its not going to make a lad up to be fair. At 40 calves it is €1,333 of a payment.

If they cap the participation at 50 calves say it may leave a few bob more slushing about to be divided among lads as I know a few farmers around here rearing up to 200 of them at a time.