The country is going well or disastrously depending on how you look at it

Bollo? Welll... when you create points I didn't make, and then seek to argue them yourself, then, YES, I'd say that's bollo.

I said they're pro-immigration, which they are. I didn't make any claim of open borders. This is the problem with these kind of discussions that relate to SF. People can't avoid jumping to the extremes to avoid dealing with the truth. Numerous SF representatives have made speeches about being pro-immigration, and the need of Ireland to have a greater foreign population.

You really have problems dealing with what I've written, even when you quote it.

haha.. now that's funny. You didn't ask for evidence. You didn't seek to counter my claims with your own evidence (to show how wrong I was). Instead, you spouted off running away about open borders (which i didn't refer to once), and then that SF couldn't possibly be worse than FF.

As for scaremongering.. seriously? You've got be joking with that comment. Currently, 18% of the Irish population is foreign born. We have roughly 17k undocumented/illegal workers in the country... and you believe that immigration doesn't affect the availability of housing?

I didn't once call SF flag wavers singing rebel songs... go on.. quote me saying that.

So, perhaps take a few breaths, rein in your outrage, and consider for a moment what I did write... (I'm pretty sure it was another poster to talked about SF being flag wavers.. but that doesn't change how inaccurate you've been twice in a row).

Someone made some generalisations, threw in some scaremongering about immigrants. Are under the impression the rise in support for SF consists of flag wavers singing rebel songs. I got youse mixed up. My mistake. No need to lose the run of yourself. Calmness.

Again, what scaremongering? 18% of the Irish population is now foreign born, and most of that happened in the last two decades. That's an incredible change to the demographics of any nation. SF have repeatedly shown their interest and support (as have most of the political parties) of immigration, and the belief that multiculturalism is a definite benefit. Except, of course, that multiculturalism has consistently failed in modern nations, and has led to income disparities, and the creation of a secondary underclass.

Immigration does affect housing availability. That's true considering the range of housing given to refugees or those deemed to be in need of supports (yes, Actual Asylum numbers are rather low, but others are allowed in under the refugee initiatives), besides the range of immigration from the EU which has included a fair number of people who end up begging on the streets, or seeking financial supports from the government, and as such, would fall under the guise of needing social housing. Besides all the productive immigrants who earn well, and can afford to rent/buy properties in Ireland. More immigration means more population, resulting in more people wanting accommodation, and a greater strain on services.

It's not difficult logic to follow.

I asked you were they for open borders. I don't believe they are.

Because "Open Borders" is a meaningless concept, since all countries retain immigration policies, including EU members. It's simply easier for EU members (within the EU), but there's still no such thing as open borders. It's an extreme concept that is trotted out as an attempt to dismiss or distract from an argument.

I said that SF are pro-immigration, which they have shown themselves to be in the past. Now.. I don't know if they would change that stance if they gained power, although I suspect they wouldn't because they want to attract the foreign born votes.

We are over a decade in housing crisis. Immigrants are not the problem. Never claimed it didn't play a part. You can't come in and play tag for another poster and not expect crossed wires. He claimed SF would be looking to house immigrants damaging the prospects of Irish born. You are saying similar.

Similar, but not the same. The distinction is important. It might be easier for you to lump all differing opinions into the same group, but it hardly contributes towards a honest and balanced discussion.

You are describing Fianna Fail and Fine Gael above. Who ever gets in will have a very hard time being worse than either of them. Let's hope they at least hold themselves to account.

I'm describing SF. You seem to believe that SF has retained their position as an outlier compared to the main political parties, but there's little difference between them on a variety of issues, and they're just as untrustworthy.

And that's without even dealing with their links to the IRA, and whether we want a government that is controlled (or heavily influenced) by a paramilitary force as opposed to serving the electorate.

Enabling others will rid us of the FF/FG cycle of mismanagement.

I disagree, because I blame the evolution of Irish politics, and SF are just as involved as the others with politics being a profession, and looking to benefit from that profession. Honestly, I consider all the political parties to be corrupt, and negligent in putting the needs of the nation ahead of their own biases. SF in power will be little different from the others, except that they'll be less efficient, and more likely to make obvious mistakes due to their lack of actual practical experience.

Specifically, why do you believe that SF will do better than the other jokers?

End of the day housing and health are in a jocker and we need parties in power who will try something different

Sure, I get that.. but I don't believe that SF are the answer. Better to wait for a new party without the **** baggage that SF, or FF have.

I'd say it's pretty bad when you need to pay a doctor 60 euro for a 5 minute consultation, regardless of whether thats by email, or face to face. It's one of my major gripes when it comes to the government(s), the movement of doctors into clinics, and the focus on making money as opposed to providing a necessary service. The doctors are turning into the solicitors... where you'll be charged for just about anything under the sun, and with dubious returns for what you paid.