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Is Dave Chappelle's new special "The Closer" really transphobic?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,362 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Watched it tonight after seeing an article about netflix staff protesting it.

    I've zero skin in the game either way, don't give any thought to trans/gay people etc but I found his story about his trans friend at the end comedically similar to somebody making racist jokes saying they've loads of black friends 😁

    I love def comedy jam/Eddie Murphy/ Richard Pryor etc but there's no doubt that a big chunk of their material rips the piss out of gay people. I think culturally in Black communities its really looked down on so its defo got roots.

    I also think you'd be hard pressed to find a white comedian being overtly racist these days. But I'd say chapelle is OK with that being cancelled.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,922 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Oh come on man, you can’t be serious? You’re better read than that, even just by your post here:


    I do admit that the US influences Ireland. But I get sources from lots of countries. I even read french, Spanish and German newspapers. I have family in Germany. I also follow news from Mexico where I used to live. I’m reading the works of Xi Jinping. You should try that, or even read what the US is doing outside it’s borders rather than within.. Like Yemen. try not to lecture people on reading more when your focus is narrow and imperialist. 

    as for the trans movement it has little effect on me personally but it will potentially effect women here and across the west fairly significantly. it will effect ireland more than your voter ID laws. In another country. Or some governor in another country removing the mandate for masks. Sweden doesn’t mandate masks. However if it’s not on CNN it’s not real to you, is it?


    Judith Butler wasn’t even born when ideas about gender and sex and all the rest of it were being floated about in Europe, and exported to the US, even long before the ECHR existed. Even calling the ECHR the ultimate woke body is a stretch!

    However, here we are on the Internet discussing an American comedian who traces his own ancestry back to the time of slavery in the US (he’s been dining out on that one his whole career), and you’re bemoaning imported ideologies and woke institutions?


    Chappelle converted to Islam in 1991. He told Time in May 2005, "I don't normally talk about my religion publicly because I don't want people to associate me and my flaws with this beautiful thing. And I believe it is beautiful if you learn it the right way."[40] Chappelle appears in a video explaining the religious backstory of the Well of Zamzam in Mecca.[115]

    His great-grandfather, Bishop William D. Chappelle, born enslaved in 1857, served as a president of Allen University and led a delegation of African Americans who met President Woodrow Wilson at the White House.[116][117] His great-great-grandfather, Robert J. Palmer, was a member of the South Carolina Legislature, then majority black, during Reconstruction.[118] His grand-uncle, W. D. Chappelle Jr., was a physician and surgeon who opened the People's Infirmary around 1915, a small hospital and surgery practice in Columbia, South Carolina, during a time when segregation prevented many African Americans from having access to healthcare.[119]


    He’s made millions off his satirical social commentaries about racism in the US, precisely because he does it in a way that’s intelligent and clever, and his latest specials are all about how black people still don’t have equal status in American society when people who are transgender have been recognised as having equal status in American society. It was because of him dragging people who are transgender into a conflict that wasn’t theirs, that they are pissed with him. They don’t hate him. Dave Chapelle only wishes that they hated him, because he’s the one with the persecution complex and a hell of a chip on his shoulder - he wants them to try and cancel him so he can say “I told you so”, but apart from a tiny minority on social media which he himself says isn’t real, the reality is that nobody really cares!

    You have a tiny minority of people trying to frame it as an issue of free speech, as if THEY are being forced to be silent and can’t say anything, but that’s not reality either, because they have the freedom to say they can’t say anything, or they can’t make jokes about people who are transgender, or they can’t perpetuate shìtty stereotypes about people who are transgender because they might face criticism from other people for expressing their opinions. Yet that’s always been true and it’s nothing new.

    What’s changed is that they weren’t aware of the freedom from criticism they had before because to them it appeared as though everyone agreed with them. People who didn’t agree with them didn’t have a voice, it was they who had to be silent because they were in a minority and had no protection from discrimination.

    Chapelle knows this because even in his last special he made the point in his analogy about the LGBT community and their civil rights and equated it with being on a car journey. He’s doing an impression of one of the passengers who is transgender and he says “Can you pull over at the next exit? I need to use the restroom”, and in response the white gay guy driving the car exasperatedly screams “there is not a restroom for you for four STATES n*gger! Will you just shut the fcuk up so we can get where we’re goin’!” 😂

    That’s clever and intelligent social commentary through using satire which is just one form of comedy. The spiteful way he went about eviscerating people who are transgender in his latest special wasn’t satire, it was just one shìtty joke after another. People reacting badly to your jokes doesn’t mean your freedom of speech is being violated, or that you’re being silenced, and you’re sure as hell not a victim. It just means people are sick of your shìt, because they’re well used to hearing it from everyone else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,922 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I missed your edit, but just to be clear, the idea of the gender recognition act was never that gender supersedes sex, it doesn’t, not even in the Act itself which recognises the right of everyone in society to be protected from unlawful discrimination on the basis of their gender identity, and the purpose of a gender recognition certificate is to afford people the right to be recognised in law as being the sex of their preferred gender.

    It still wasn’t rushed through, wherever you got that idea from, not to mention that your ideas of a democracy which doesn’t recognise people as being of equal status in law, is not a democracy. When the world hegemony says men are women now we all agree men are women… do we? Really? Clearly we do not, regardless of your attempt to paint yourself as the victim of some totalitarian dictatorship! 🙄

    The reason those considerations were revised is because politicians decided the social model approach to gender identity would be more appropriate than the medical model which is still used in the UK, because they considered that gender identity itself is not a medical condition. It doesn’t mean at all what you’re driving at, that exceptions to the application of the gender recognition act don’t exist. They do, and this was never more clearly demonstrated than during the campaign to repeal the 8th amendment -





  • Registered Users Posts: 14,718 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    You ignored the fact that I didn’t say satire is reserved for people in power. I said the point of satire, is to mock people in power, as opposed to taking pot shots at easy targets.

    In your haste to write those long-winded essays, you should really proofread what the hell you are saying.

    'Satire is not reserved for people in power, yet the point of satire is to mock people in power....'

    Em OK then....



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,922 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    It is ok, are you ok?

    What you quoted is making the point that satire is not the intellectual property of people in power, it’s used to mock the people in power by those people who have none. That’s what makes it effective. Multi-millionaires and billionaires using satire to portray themselves as victims being oppressed by a more powerful authority, misses the point of satire by a country mile.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,718 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Ah ok, so if a rich black guy is racially abused then it's tough, as he has some money...



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,922 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    What was your point in telling me I really need to proof read what I’m saying, when you’re just gonna make up whatever shìt you like as if I said it anyway?



  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    Watched it there yesterday because of the fuss to see what's it all about. Very very funny guy and show. Hopefully the woke brigade don't win out and have it removed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,108 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    No, it isn't, it is a comedy. Put 10 people in a room and tell a joke. Some will laugh as they may like it. Some will laugh because well, others are laughing... And some will not, they either do not like it or do not get it. Same situation here.

    I do not usually watch standup comedy, I do so when there is too much of a fuss and a storms in a bucket about some. Just to see what made people crazy about it.

    It was not the best I have seen yet the guy is not bad either. Whole situation reminds me of a censor office where you had people going over stuff just for the sake of finding something to run and show the boss how good busy bees they are. It usually involved some bonus for the most productive. Nowadays that bonus may not be in form of bigger salary but as a boost to oneself 5 seconds of a glory and fame or increased self feeling of worthiness.

    Some people compete between themselves who gets offended the most. Others get a kick by analyzing situation to the point that they produce so much of a "explanation clutter" one have no idea what they are talking about. Sort of like a politician - some of them talk so much that when they actually finish you have no clue what it was all about anyway.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What is "woke" (god I hate that term) though is treating the feeling that you were born as the wrong sex as though you actually ARE the opposite sex and should be recognised as such.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    You have racial victim points until you express the wrong opinions, you're fair game after that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    As long as people feint outrage on behalf of self Identifying people and the 100+ other gender identities out there there will always be calls for censorship and cancellations ,

    Were all fair game in this world



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The really genius thing in the special is that he managed to get the 2 Space Jews jokes in and no-one's talking about it. A really tough trick to pull off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    I have great time for Dave Chappelle and similar - I think he walks a fine line but real comedy often does. Its often said the court Jester is the only one in the kingdom telling the truth and that is hitting home harder than ever in the current cultural climate of shouting down anyone you dont agree with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    "shouting down anyone you don't agree with"..

    Like the reason this thread was created?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    The thread prompted a discussion did it not ? I don't see anyone being shouted down, divergence of views and opinion is ok .



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    What exactly is your point though. Do you propose repealing the Gender Recognition Act?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,451 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    The gender recognition act allows people to be legally regarded as the gender they wish. This is in no way equivalent to saying that the state agrees that one is in fact the gender they choose to live as. If it were there is no way any transwoman could be denied to participate in woman's sports, etc.

    Unfortunately this is no longer good enough for the activists (it is for a lot trans people just like civil partnership was enough for some gay people) which is why we are where we are today.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My proposal is radical.

    I propose that we recognise biological sex and the difference between the two. That biological men are male and biological women are female and neither are interchangeable.

    If anyone wants to identify as any one of the infinite genders available, go for it. create as many pronouns as you want but don't be surprised if people don't use them. Your chosen gender doesn't change the fact that you are either male or female. Your sex is not a choice.

    For example; Men cannot give birth in any circumstance. Women can not father a child under any circumstance.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Feeling that one's limbs aren't one's own is also a real feeling. It doesn't make it real. The woke part is not applying critical thinking, focusing on the feelings and treating everyone minority like a victim.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,922 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Does the idea that some people are fine with being treated as less than equals in society, mean that everyone else who shares that characteristic in common with them should also be satisfied to be treated as less than equal? The only people who benefit from that are the people who made up such a stupid rule in the first place that allowed for people to be discriminated against on whatever basis they’re claiming they would be at a disadvantage if other people were to be treated as their equals!



    What’s radical about that? It’s been the way things have been in Western society for at least the last 200 years, since Victorian times anyways when Darwin sought to justify discrimination by suggesting there was a biological basis to explain why some people were superior to other people, and some people were inferior to other people, and that this should be the basis upon which society should continue to be structured, which was rather convenient for him and the people who had the authority to make policy decisions at the time - it reaffirmed their beliefs that they were superior to everyone else.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah... acknowledgement that the two sexes aren't interchangeable is exactly the same in claiming superiority. Ffs jack.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    easy now - a lot of assumption in that statement.. kinda shows a lack of critical thinking really..



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,399 ✭✭✭archfi


    🤣

    Don't forget jokes about whites, blacks, gay people, feminist women and ars*eholes in general.

    'REPENT MOTHERFU*CKERS!' 🤣

    Lunatics.🤪🤡

    The issue is never the issue; the issue is always the revolution.

    The Entryism process: 1) Demand access; 2) Demand accommodation; 3) Demand a seat at the table; 4) Demand to run the table; 5) Demand to run the institution; 6) Run the institution to produce more activists and policy until they run it into the ground.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,922 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    It’s clearly not the same, my point is that it’s on the basis of recognition of the differences between the sexes that one sex was considered to be superior to the other, and this was reflected in law at the time. There were other characteristics which were also considered superior such as the colour of a person’s skin, their religious affiliation and adherence, their political beliefs and so on.

    If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re not suggesting anything radical, you’re simply reinforcing standards which would have the effect of justifying discrimination against particular groups in society on the basis of someone’s feelings that they are superior and this gives them the the authority to determine other peoples rights. One doesn’t have to be woke to see the issues with that idea - it still means that unjust discrimination is justifiable on the basis that the person is not regarded as being of equal status in law, which is precisely what the gender recognition act attempts to address - recognition first, protection from unlawful discrimination second.

    Everyone is free as you suggest to determine their gender for themselves, same as for example they are free to determine their own religion for themselves, and other people who don’t agree with them are still free to disagree. Nobody is free to harass anyone else, and people are still punished when they are convicted of committing criminal offences.

    The only people who are surprised when anyone disagrees with them are people who aren’t used to anyone disagreeing with them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Great point -OEJ


    The only people who are surprised when anyone disagrees with them are people who aren’t used to anyone disagreeing with them,

    Apparently disagreeing with a tiny cohort brings out the oul phobic this and phobic that bigoted this and that your all woman haters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,922 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Aaaand I’m sure you give a shìte Gatling?

    I certainly don’t give a shìte, they are as you rightly suggest only a tiny minority, same as the tiny minority who tries to play the victim when anyone doesn’t find their opinions funny, or intelligent or whatever.



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  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think that is true, although it hasn't been tested in court. Once the gender certificate is signed then the person can change their passport, and that document determines your legal sex. Neither the constitution or the law makes the distinction between gender and sex. So if trans women are denied the right to participate in sports, it is probably illegal if they have in fact changed their sex/gender legally.



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