Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Yeah, hot whisky would be better...

Yeah we'd be lost without the vaccine. And obviously the people stepping up to get it. Hopefully some more hiding under the bed from vaccines come out.

And can they improve the vaccine over time? Maybe a stupid question!

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing. Well done you.

Agree with this . Healthy individuals should really not need boosters . And especially those who have had vaccination and infection .

My issue is that not all healthcare workers, who are at higher risk of infection,are healthy .We are a diverse group and some have underlying conditions ( like myself ;) )while beingdaced with Covid patients everyday. That's why some of us were vaccinated at the beginning. Thing is , apart from every other immunologist , NIAC alone appears to be not in favour of hcw vaccination , at the moment ..still looking at the data .

No . Or at least not yet .

What it actually means is that one or two un vaccinated people may have died , and one or two vaccinated were admitted to ICU .

Not literally , of course , I wouldn't say that , but the numbers do go up and down from day to day .

You see more vaccinated with less severe illness in the hospitalisations but still a large predominance of unvaccinated/ partially vaccinated in ICU .

Sweden doubled its ICU capcity for Covid, but due to their criteria on admission to ICU , which does not encourage treatment of elderly with underlying conditions, were never full capacity!

Chilling 👀

Yes ,definitely not the same , raind !

It is relevant as it explains why they are finding so many people filling their ICU now, so a problem of their own making. A population with a higher level of vaccination would not produce so many. Angry and ashamed doesn't fix things, being in the middle of a pandemic helps even less. It's not easy to add ICU beds and money is the least of the challenges.

Seems like a sweeping statement. I don’t know the criteria for ICU admission in Sweden - is it really ‘chilling’? They seem to have a lot of elderly included in their stats, not many over 90s admittedly. Pity there’s no way to compare them to our own top secret ICU data.

Yes, that too . Once in the system you might have a chance but trying to get there is a major issue .But our ICU capacity is creaking at the seams , I know this first hand and its been going on for years . Even in Paeds hospitals is a juggling game with ICU beds and often surgeries cancelled at the last minute .Its not fit for purpose and getting very critical now

@Deeper Blue wrote:

Well...if you wanted to forward plan, it looks like Iran have hit a trough. So in the absence of any major changes in terms of restrictions, the only way from here is up. You're right looking at the data that there's no way to say a new wave has started, but also looking at the graphs, a new wave is imminent. It could be two weeks or two months before it starts though. Their vaccination programme has really kicked up a notch too, so maybe they'll never see a huge wave again.

I'm playing devil's advocate, but his point is kind of right. Iran is being hit by wave after wave of this, indicating there is very little herd immunity being built up - as you point out, just 6m (known) cases in a population of 85m. Natural herd immunity was never a real strategy, and it's not really a thing. In nature diseases don't tend towards herd immunity; it's counter-productive to the disease, and any disease which spread so easily and rapidly so as to cause herd immunity, would cause itself to go extinct. In nature diseases that get a good burn on, fall back a bit after a while, but never induce immunity. The black death managed to wipe out half of London, but still never brought on herd immunity.

Herd immunity has almost exclusively always been used in reference to vaccination. No country or subset of population is ever going to be "covered" by natural immunity. If they're not vaccinated, the virus will continue burning through them ad infinitum.