The creeping prominence of the Irish language

Precisely. If the course isn't fit for purpose, or if the teaching is not up to standard, then the contact hours are not there.

If the Irish language had the general support you seem to believe it does far more of a percentage of our population would be able to speak it and speak it fluently. They don't. If the Irish language had the general support you seem to believe it does we wouldn't have seen the continuous even accelerated drop off in its usage amomg Irish people throughout the 20th century. Yet we did.

Fair questions on the face of it - but for instance, when the government removes one support after another then it is left to the individual. Furthermore as we know in other fields, the market is a sort of a steam roller. Look at another situation - Brussels. Traditionally a Dutch-speaking city, only a small minority there today are native Dutch speakers. Dutch is the majority language in Belgium with huge support from the State and a wide range of official bodies, yet it has become marginalised in the capital city. Despite all the support available, and despite services actually existing in Dutch.

If the Irish language had the general support you seem to believe it does then how did FG get "lots of votes and way more seats than anyone else"? Though the language was almost certainly low down that list ....

You have answered your question by stating the language was low down the list of priorities in 2011 - the economy was down the toilet, people were struggling, emigration was huge. People castigated FF by voting FG and Labour. Nonetheless,

As I said earlier we have an odd and often contradictory attitude to the language. On the one hand we might say it would be a shame to lose it, on the other a small minority actually use it as a language. The very reason for its existence. You do a straw poll on an Irish street and you'd almost certainly get a fair percentage saying isn't it great we have our native language, but try the same question on the same street as Gaelige and see how many can answer you. And "Ni thuigim an ceist" doesn't count. 😁

Yes, we do have a contradictory attitude. However it takes time and effort to become fluent in another language, so those that have not managed to become fluent in Irish while at school are at a huge disadvantage, given that they have to earn a living, bring up children and so on - and carry on their normal life which generally means speaking to their friends, family and neighbours in a language that both sides of the conversation are comfortable in. Or even just due to inertia - in any social context, it is my experience that most people stick to the language they first used with someone else, unless something happens to make them change to a different language, like for instance when a new French-speaking immigrant might find people with some French in the initial period, but as the immigrant becomes more familiar with English and more at ease in the language, they might later change to speaking English. Or Irish; I know quite a few immigrants in Conamara and Corca Dhuibhne who have learned Irish and have become completely fluent in the language.

According to your figures, 18% of the population are active speakers of Irish. And you think that there are not enough people in the country to provide services in Irish?

On top of which you insult me. It is clear that you have issues, maybe you should deal with them rather than spouting hatred on the internet.

If a "train the trainer" model was offered through Irish it could help people like me even get involved

We are told that there are not enough people available who speak Irish, yet the census tells us that 18% of people actively speak Irish. However this isn't good enough for some: unless you speak Irish every day, they seem to think your Irish isn't up to scratch. And of course maybe for some it isn't - but being trained up apparently is fine for English speakers, or immigrants with English as a second language. But not for Irish speakers, apparently.

Take my own case. I speak Irish to my children; but when they move out, I may no longer be a daily speaker, as my OH doesn't speak Irish. According to some here, I will no longer qualify as an Irish speaker as a result!

For some courses, definitely; but for the more practical ones you need to a teacher to be physically present to show you what you're doing wrong. I've done online art courses, done everything as explained, but still got a less than satisfactory result. Also, a lot of people do courses for social interaction as much as the course itself.

I see the issue though: but training every course teacher to speak Irish is impractical and also going to put a lot of skilled teachers off (not to metnion students - if I'm doing a cookery course, I want the best cooking teacher, not someone who's a bad teacher but a good Irish speaker - so what then are the solutions if the numbers genuinely aren't there?

I thought you were trying to leave me out of it?

Well, any good idea needs to be checked for demand before, and this is no different. Checking for demand is the easy bit. I have no problem with trailing online night courses in Irish - the problem I have is going full-on and using up resources and money without trailing it first. Do one or two subjects you think would be the most likely to attact Irish speakers or where the teaching talent is already there and expand from there if it's a success.

Jim can be a bit of a hardliner for my tastes, but he has a point when he says the old methods don't work, but I don't think that's relevant to evening courses where the language ability as already there.

@Ulysses - I think you'll find we've been doing that repeadly and the results are billingual roadsigns. They can probably only do so much with a largely apathetic population, though.

But who's getting the money right now? People who aren't Irish enthusiasts...?

While I'm not thinking sheltered, I'd love to know where said person went to school.

Yes, they do; but AFAIK it is quite common for young children in bilingual families to reply in the language they hear most around them. I understand that this is usually just a stage they go through.

We have neither the will nor the resources.

Again - if we can't teach Irish effectively in Irish, why should we expand it to all the other subjects?