Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

#1 · 23-04-2021 6:13am #1

According to this ridiculous conspiracy theory no serious side effects were reported after taking Sinovac and Sputnik vaccines. Sure who would trust Mexicans (re Sputnik) or Chileans (re Sinovac).

Not to mention that this conspiracy is promoted in article on RT which is state sponsored propaganda mouthpiece (well sometimes they are considered as news source by the same people calling them out depends on article in question).

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/521846-covid-vaccine-eu-us-cooperation/
By Marcello Ferrada de Noli, Swedish professor emeritus of public health sciences esp. epidemiology, former Research Fellow at Harvard Medical School.

Surely Swedish scientists are not to be taken seriously given what Sweden did

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Dohnjoe · 23-04-2021 12:17pm

RT is Russian State propaganda

Marcello Ferrada de Noli (of course) is controversial and is considered a tool of Russian propaganda by Reporters Without Borders, Swedish newspapers and other European press
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcello_Ferrada_de_Noli

And the Germans are in talks to buy Sputnik vaccine

ShatterAlan · 23-04-2021 9:04pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

RT is Russian State propaganda

Marcello Ferrada de Noli (of course) is controversial and is considered a tool of Russian propaganda by Reporters Without Borders, Swedish newspapers and other European press
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcello_Ferrada_de_Noli

And the Germans are in talks to buy Sputnik vaccine

I believe the Germans have already taken in close to one million doses of the Sputnik V vaccine.

patnor1011 · 24-04-2021 5:18am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I believe the Germans have already taken in close to one million doses of the Sputnik V vaccine.

They are taking 10M doses every month for the next 3 months and if there will be demand they want more.

They are cheaper, more available, offer similar protection and no serious side effects reported so far. Why are we not buying them since we are still struggle to repay our debt most of which was incurred during Fiannancial Fáil government?

Darc19 · 24-04-2021 5:34am

patnor1011 wrote: »

They are taking 10M doses every month for the next 3 months and if there will be demand they want more.

They are cheaper, more available, offer similar protection and no serious side effects reported so far. Why are we not buying them since we are still struggle to repay our debt most of which was incurred during Fiannancial Fáil government?

Because we now have more than enough vaccine coming through.

But sure SF/IRA apologists can't be bothered to check facts.

Allinall · 24-04-2021 5:42am

patnor1011 wrote: »

They are taking 10M doses every month for the next 3 months and if there will be demand they want more.

They are cheaper, more available, offer similar protection and no serious side effects reported so far. Why are we not buying them since we are still struggle to repay our debt most of which was incurred during Fiannancial Fáil government?

How are we struggling to repay our debt?

Have we missed any payments?
Have we been late with any payments?
Have any of our creditors called in their debt early?

What has any of this got to do with Russian vaccines?

astrofool · 24-04-2021 2:17pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I believe the Germans have already taken in close to one million doses of the Sputnik V vaccine.

patnor1011 wrote: »

They are taking 10M doses every month for the next 3 months and if there will be demand they want more.

They are cheaper, more available, offer similar protection and no serious side effects reported so far. Why are we not buying them since we are still struggle to repay our debt most of which was incurred during Fiannancial Fáil government?

According to the reports, they are planning to by 30M to be delivered in June, July and August. No Sputnik have been administered in Germany so far as it hasn't been approved by the EMA.

I would be sceptical of this going ahead as the amount of Pfizer on supply would mean that Sputnik becomes excess stock.

It's also very likely to have the same side effects as AZ and J&J as they are very similar vaccines.

The cost of the vaccines isn't really part of the equations, they're cheap enough vs. the economy shutdowns that the best vaccine is the one you can buy earliest.

Pfizer are also planning on charging richer countries more so they can subsidise developing countries.

patnor1011 · 27-04-2021 8:38am

Allinall wrote: »

How are we struggling to repay our debt?

Have we missed any payments?
Have we been late with any payments?
Have any of our creditors called in their debt early?

What has any of this got to do with Russian vaccines?

Yes we are struggling to repay our debt. Since we added much more in the last year it make perfect sense to try to buy cheaper stuff. It is not just Russian but also Chinese vaccine. Also since there are no severe adverse reactions reported so far seems like a good opportunity to let people choose which one they want if they actually want it.

astrofool · 27-04-2021 9:00am

patnor1011 wrote: »

Yes we are struggling to repay our debt. Since we added much more in the last year it make perfect sense to try to buy cheaper stuff. It is not just Russian but also Chinese vaccine. Also since there are no severe adverse reactions reported so far seems like a good opportunity to let people choose which one they want if they actually want it.

It makes no sense if they haven't been approved and don't have plentiful supplies anyway. The cost of the vaccines is not an issue.

patnor1011 · 27-04-2021 8:21pm

astrofool wrote: »

It makes no sense if they haven't been approved and don't have plentiful supplies anyway. The cost of the vaccines is not an issue.

They have been approved in many countries which do use them daily. They are being used even in EU countries like Hungary.
If we are in the middle of supposedly "deadly pandemic" there is no excuse of not using them. Mainly since there is no issue with them as we see with other "approved" vaccines. You seems to live in some bubble thinking that there are plentiful supplies anywhere. Most of the world did not receive next to none of "approved" vaccines and if you think we can rest easy having what we have while over half of the world have none think again.

odyssey06 · 27-04-2021 8:25pm

Brazilian regulator blocks sputnik approval

Anvisa said it had no or insufficient data on the vaccine's "quality control, safety and efficacy" and that an inspection mission sent to Russia was also unable to "identify the manufacturers of the biological pharmaceutical input used in the production of the Russian vaccine."

https://www.euronews.com/2021/04/27/brazilian-regulator-rejects-use-of-russia-s-sputnik-v-covid-19-vaccine

astrofool · 27-04-2021 9:52pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

They have been approved in many countries which do use them daily. They are being used even in EU countries like Hungary.
If we are in the middle of supposedly "deadly pandemic" there is no excuse of not using them. Mainly since there is no issue with them as we see with other "approved" vaccines. You seems to live in some bubble thinking that there are plentiful supplies anywhere. Most of the world did not receive next to none of "approved" vaccines and if you think we can rest easy having what we have while over half of the world have none think again.

You wanted it used because it was cheap, now it's because it's plentiful (it's not), even if we decided we wanted to use it today it would take months for supply to arrive, by which time we'll have already finished vaccinating with the already approved vaccines.

27-04-2021 11:11pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

If we are in the middle of supposedly "deadly pandemic" .

We are in the middle of a deadly pandemic.
Covid has killed more than 3.1 million people.
You keep denying this number then running away when you're asked to support this denial.

There's no "supposedly" and there's no need for "scare quotes".

So what do you believe is the real reason for governments not using this particular vaccine?

Also I'm curious what testing and research went into this vaccine that makes you confident in it when you keep falsely claiming that the other vaccines have not been tested for safety.
If memory serves this vaccine was out before the other vaccines, which would mean it had even less long term safety trials, so it's strange that's not an issue for you.

patnor1011 · 28-04-2021 2:30am

King Mob wrote: »

We are in the middle of a deadly pandemic.
Covid has killed more than 3.1 million people.
You keep denying this number then running away when you're asked to support this denial.

No buddy, I stop reacting to your posts as you do have tendency to twist and lie. I did not disputed that number. There was no denial I merely pointed out that in terms of global deaths occurring per year it is very small number. You do have covid blinders on and see 3 million refusing to acknowledge that over 20x more people died last year from other things. So stop this childish tactic you seems to employ time and again saying that someone else said something when you know it is just your own interpretation of what was written all the while you claim people said that.

King Mob wrote: »

Also I'm curious what testing and research went into this vaccine that makes you confident in it when you keep falsely claiming that the other vaccines have not been tested for safety.

Again lie. Where did I claim other vaccines have not been tested for safety?

King Mob wrote: »

If memory serves this vaccine was out before the other vaccines, which would mean it had even less long term safety trials, so it's strange that's not an issue for you.

It is not strange if you try to comprehend what you read. What I was saying here is that there was no serious health damage or death reported in connection with russian and chinese vaccine so far compared to what was reported in connection with other vaccines.

None of vaccines out there have finished long term studies as they are ongoing.

As I said in other thread you simply keep twisting what was said and putting your own words in someone else mouth. So again, I said nothing of what you claim I said. It happened in your head only.

28-04-2021 3:54am

patnor1011 wrote: »

No buddy, I stop reacting to your posts as you do have tendency to twist and lie.

Huh. I thought you stopped cause I showed that this particular objection you were having turned out to be false.

For example you denied saying that "the covid vaccines weren't vaccines".
I pointed out the exact quote where you did this.
You didn't respond.

So I think what is clear here is that when you're called up on particular conspiracy claims you backpeddle.

patnor1011 wrote: »

I did not disputed that number. There was no denial I merely pointed out that in terms of global deaths occurring per year it is very small number.

Ok.
So by what definition is 3.1 million deaths "supposedly deadly".
If it kills a lot of people it's deadly. No need for "supposedly".

Also it's good to see you reject all the conspiracy claims that the number is exaggerated.

patnor1011 wrote: »

Again lie. Where did I claim other vaccines have not been tested for safety?

Ok. This is another backpeddle.
But that's fine.

Do you believe that the Russian vaccine has been more extensively tested? Or are all the vaccines equally well tested?

patnor1011 wrote: »

It is not strange if you try to comprehend what you read. What I was saying here is that there was no serious health damage or death reported in connection with russian and chinese vaccine so far compared to what was reported in connection with other vaccines.

But the reports of side effects in the other vaccines have not been shown to be due to the vaccines.
And on top of that the number of reported possible side effects have been a mictoscoping amount compared to the number of vaccines received. I remind you, you are passing off 3.1 million deaths as a "small number". So it doesn't make a ton of sense that you'd be concerned about a few hundred(?) cases of blood clots.

Additionally I'm not sure what metric you are using to determine that the vaccines you like have not had similar connections like you made using the VAERS data.
Are potential adverse effects of those vaccines recorded in the same manner? If so how did you check the data?

patnor1011 wrote: »

None of vaccines out there have finished long term studies as they are ongoing.

Ok. So then do you believe that the Russian and Chinese vaccines are more, less or equally as likely to have unknown side effects as other vaccines?

Now if your concern is that you will be misunderstood I suggest answer these simple questions directly and clearly.

patnor1011 · 28-04-2021 10:28pm

It make no sense to talk with someone who when caught making false statements about what other people said and presenting them in order to somehow discredit that person disregard it as "back-peddle". It was not just me, you did this numerous times, got called on it and that is why nobody engage with you anymore. Also taking stuff out of context from entirely different thread trying to prove some point somewhere else and then coming in conclusions that people did say or reject something... You see, you take something and twist it a little or completely lie about it and then you build whole fantasy land out of it.
I get it, new people are coming here every day so you will not run out of your enjoyment trying to mock people mostly by twisting what they said or taking it out of context yet most of them who try to engage with you just a little will see it quite fast.

28-04-2021 10:46pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

It make no sense to talk with someone who when caught making false statements about what other people said and presenting them in order to somehow discredit that person disregard it as "back-peddle". It was not just me, you did this numerous times, got called on it and that is why nobody engage with you anymore. Also taking stuff out of context from entirely different thread trying to prove some point somewhere else and then coming in conclusions that people did say or reject something... You see, you take something and twist it a little or completely lie about it and then you build whole fantasy land out of it.
I get it, new people are coming here every day so you will not run out of your enjoyment trying to mock people mostly by twisting what they said or taking it out of context yet most of them who try to engage with you just a little will see it quite fast.

And more ranting about me than actually addressing the points and questions.
Cool.

You do realise that just ignoring points don't make them go away, right?

Darc19 · 29-04-2021 5:54am

patnor1011 wrote: »

No buddy, I stop reacting to your posts as you do have tendency to twist and lie. I did not disputed that number. There was no denial I merely pointed out that in terms of global deaths occurring per year it is very small number. You do have covid blinders on and see 3 million refusing to acknowledge that over 20x more people died last year from other things.

I heard this argument before. It was from someone with low intelligence level and they simply repeated what they heard and which suited their thoughts.

3m + died even with the near shutdown of the world economy and massive restrictions.

The shutdown was so effective that flu deaths in 2020 were negligible worldwide.

Other respiratory illnesses also saw dramatic drops to near zero.

Still 3 million died from coronavirus.

Imagine the number if action was not taken?

Dohnjoe · 29-04-2021 8:53am

Brazil has just banned import of Sputnik vaccine after they alleged certain batches were discovered to have live versions of a cold-causing virus
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210428-brazil-says-russian-covid-vaccine-carried-live-cold-virus

patnor1011 · 29-04-2021 3:55pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Brazil has just banned import of Sputnik vaccine after they alleged certain batches were discovered to have live versions of a cold-causing virus
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210428-brazil-says-russian-covid-vaccine-carried-live-cold-virus

I will borrow your favorite comparison here.
Imagine you do have bowl of sweets. Blue will give you cold and red will give you blood clots. Which one will you take?

Dohnjoe · 29-04-2021 4:10pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

I will borrow your favorite comparison here.
Imagine you do have bowl of sweets. Blue will give you cold and red will give you blood clots. Which one will you take?

Stupid analogy.

Countries are judging the vaccines for themselves, some have different standards than others.

29-04-2021 9:42pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

I will borrow your favorite comparison here.
Imagine you do have bowl of sweets. Blue will give you cold and red will give you blood clots. Which one will you take?

But again, you're revealing your hypocrisy.
The other vaccines have not been shown to actually cause blood clots.
There have been around 200 cases that have been possibly linked with the vaccine. That's about 200 hundred cases compared to 22 million vaccines given.
This is lower than the usual rate of blood clots from other causes.
This is significantly lower than the rate of blood clots caused by covid.
This is significantly lower than the rate of death caused by covid.

And again, to remind you, you've argued that 3 million deaths is not a statistically significant number.

Yet, despite all of this, you still claim that blood clots are a concern to you.
This is clearly not a rational concern.

patnor1011 · 29-04-2021 10:55pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Stupid analogy.

Countries are judging the vaccines for themselves, some have different standards than others.

Stupid indeed. Nevertheless it was used here many times in connection with death with covid. "bag of 67 sweets 3 of them poison would you happily dip in..."
I do believe that anyone put in question to decide if he want to chance cold or blood clots would most likely go for first one.
Or, as it is quite evident in the USA will decide to wait it out and see.

Dohnjoe · 29-04-2021 11:15pm

King Mob wrote: »

But again, you're revealing your hypocrisy.
The other vaccines have not been shown to actually cause blood clots.
There have been around 200 cases that have been possibly linked with the vaccine. That's about 200 hundred cases compared to 22 million vaccines given.
This is lower than the usual rate of blood clots from other causes.
This is significantly lower than the rate of blood clots caused by covid.
This is significantly lower than the rate of death caused by covid.

And again, to remind you, you've argued that 3 million deaths is not a statistically significant number.

And that lockdowns "don't work".

Concerning the vaccines, any idea what the conspiracy angle is here?

30-04-2021 1:30am

patnor1011 wrote: »

Stupid indeed. Nevertheless it was used here many times in connection with death with covid. "bag of 67 sweets 3 of them poison would you happily dip in..."
I do believe that anyone put in question to decide if he want to chance cold or blood clots would most likely go for first one.
Or, as it is quite evident in the USA will decide to wait it out and see.

But it's a bad analogy.
Which would you pick from? A bag with sweets where there's a 1 in 36000 chance that you might get blood clots. (But again, that's not confirmed and still far less than the chance of getting blood clots from other sources or covid.)
A bag of sweets that someone has sneezed into?
Catch a virus that's killed 3.1 million people and caused many more side effects?

But you know that your analogy is false and dishonest.

You don't have a rational reason to be against one lot of vaccines but all for another.

patnor1011 · 30-04-2021 10:51pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

And that lockdowns "don't work".

Concerning the vaccines, any idea what the conspiracy angle is here?

They obviously do not work.
Concerning the vaccines why do you look for conspiracy? Covid vaccine is simply money making scheme. And what most of the people do not realize there will not be enough of them even for those who wants to get them. Simply due to inability to source enough of various components some of which are hard to source and cant be substituted or conjured out of thin air.
Not to mention that half of the world population simply cant afford them. Do you really think that people who want them in Ireland and will be vaccinated will be safe while virus will be freely circulating all over developing countries for years to come, think again.
Most of the people do not need them anyway as this virus is very picky who it will make sick or who will die when they get it on top of their other serious ailments.

01-05-2021 12:24am

patnor1011 wrote: »

They obviously do not work.

But they do.
You guys have repeated this lie over and over, but you have failed to show this is the case. You then run away from that fact and ignore things, hope people forget your embarassment and then repeat the same debunked claim.

It isn't working and only serves to make you guys look ridiculous.

patnor1011 wrote: »

Concerning the vaccines why do you look for conspiracy? Covid vaccine is simply money making scheme.

But the vaccines work also.
You seem to be shifting your position cause you can't defend whatever vague point you were trying to make about the Russian vaccine.

patnor1011 wrote: »

Most of the people do not need them anyway as this virus is very picky who it will make sick or who will die when they get it on top of their other serious ailments.

And straight up, dishonest, pathetic lie that's been debunked again and again.

Dohnjoe · 01-05-2021 7:11pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

They obviously do not work.

Ah, it's obvious, so why is every government in the world trying to reduce contact between people to reduce instances of the virus?

Concerning the vaccines why do you look for conspiracy? Covid vaccine is simply money making scheme.

A vaccine that costs money to develop, create, produce and supply doesn't do anything else?

It doesn't, for example, immunise against a virus that has already killed over 3 million people?

patnor1011 · 02-05-2021 1:22am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Ah, it's obvious, so why is every government in the world trying to reduce contact between people to reduce instances of the virus?

No, not every government in the world. But you know that.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

A vaccine that costs money to develop, create, produce and supply doesn't do anything else?

That vaccine or most of them were paid for by governments which prepaid future deliveries. Most of the money spent if not all of them came from outside sources. Problems with deliveries are coming from lax attention to quality control where contracted people sometimes inadequately trained botch up their job. There was a lot of promises how vaccine blueprint and rights from one particular company whose product is plagued with problems these days will be given freely for everyone to make their own as much as they need. Kinda reminds me our politicians who promise you everything when they come with a hat in their hand. Well, patent was sold and that vaccine will not be free or even cheap.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It doesn't, for example, immunise against a virus that has already killed over 3 million people?

You are right. It doesn't. It offer you possibility of having covid infecton milder when you eventually contract it. Which itself is hard to prove as nobody can even pretend to know how covid would hit individual with vaccine or without it. It all depends on everyone's own immune system and state of health.

02-05-2021 1:37am

patnor1011 wrote: »

No, not every government in the world. But you know that.

And here you've ignored Dohnjoe's point.
Why are governments using lockdowns if they don't work?
Why are organisations and experts calling for them?

Are all of these people involved in a global conspiracy to trick people into lockdowns for an ulterior motive?
Most of your conspiracy theory buddies are claiming so.
I imagine that if I suggest that this is also what you believe, you'll have another little freak out.

patnor1011 wrote: »

That vaccine or most of them were paid for by governments which prepaid future deliveries. Most of the money spent if not all of them came from outside sources. Problems with deliveries are coming from lax attention to quality control where contracted people sometimes inadequately trained botch up their job. There was a lot of promises how vaccine blueprint and rights from one particular company whose product is plagued with problems these days will be given freely for everyone to make their own as much as they need. Kinda reminds me our politicians who promise you everything when they come with a hat in their hand. Well, patent was sold and that vaccine will not be free or even cheap.

All vague waffle.
What point are you trying to make?
What has this to do with the Russian and Chinese vaccines?
Are you saying that they have had no production problems and were developed with only pure thoughts and noble intentions?

patnor1011 wrote: »

You are right. It doesn't. It offer you possibility of having covid infecton milder when you eventually contract it. Which itself is hard to prove as nobody can even pretend to know how covid would hit individual with vaccine or without it. It all depends on everyone's own immune system and state of health.

And more outright lies.

It doesn't "offer you possibility of having covid infecton milder". It grants immunity.
Studies have shown that the vaccines have and effectiveness of over 90%

I again suspect you, like most conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers don't actually know what vaccines are or how they work.
This being especially ironic given that you claimed the covid vaccines weren't vaccines.

You also ignore the fact that vaccination isn't just about preventing the individual from catching the virus, it's about limiting the spread of the virus, especially to people more vulnerable.
A vaccinated person is going to spread the virus less than an unvaccinated person regardless of how sick the virus makes them.

anotherfinemess · 12-05-2021 12:40pm

Here are some UK gov statistics on the subject.

https://yellowcard.ukcolumn.org/yellow-card-reports

Dohnjoe · 12-05-2021 12:44pm

anotherfinemess wrote: »

Here are some UK gov statistics on the subject.

https://yellowcard.ukcolumn.org/yellow-card-reports

The above is from a Covid denial and conspiracy site : https://www.ukcolumn.org/, it's author has appeared on the Alex Jones show

Here is the proper site for yellow card info and stats
https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

where you'll notice this very important context:

The nature of Yellow Card reporting means that reported events are not always proven side effects. Some events may have happened anyway, regardless of vaccination. This is particularly the case when millions of people are vaccinated, and especially when most vaccines are being given to the most elderly people and people who have underlying illness.

patnor1011 · 19-05-2021 7:41am

The European database of suspected drug reaction reports is EudraVigilance, which also tracks reports of injuries and deaths following the experimental COVID-19 “vaccines.”

Here is what EudraVigilance states about their database:

This website was launched by the European Medicines Agency in 2012 to provide public access to reports of suspected side effects (also known as suspected adverse drug reactions). These reports are submitted electronically to EudraVigilance by national medicines regulatory authorities and by pharmaceutical companies that hold marketing authorisations (licences) for the medicines.

EudraVigilance is a system designed for collecting reports of suspected side effects. These reports are used for evaluating the benefits and risks of medicines during their development and monitoring their safety following their authorisation in the European Economic Area (EEA). EudraVigilance has been in use since December 2001.

This website was launched to comply with the EudraVigilance Access Policy, which was developed to improve public health by supporting the monitoring of the safety of medicines and to increase transparency for stakeholders, including the general public.

The Management Board of the European Medicines Agency first approved the EudraVigilance Access Policy in December 2010. A revision was adopted by the Board in December 2015 based on the 2010 pharmacovigilance legislation. The policy aims to provide stakeholders such as national medicines regulatory authorities in the EEA, the European Commission, healthcare professionals, patients and consumers, as well as the pharmaceutical industry and research organisations, with access to reports on suspected side effects.

Transparency is a key guiding principle of the Agency, and is pivotal to building trust and confidence in the regulatory process. By increasing transparency, the Agency is better able to address the growing need among stakeholders, including the general public, for access to information. (Source.)

Their report through May 8, 2021 lists 10,570 deaths and 405,259 injuries following injections of four experimental COVID-19 shots:
- COVID-19 MRNA VACCINE MODERNA (CX-024414)
https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+40983312
-COVID-19 MRNA VACCINE PFIZER-BIONTECH
https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+42325700
-COVID-19 VACCINE ASTRAZENECA (CHADOX1 NCOV-19)
https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+40995439
-COVID-19 VACCINE JANSSEN (AD26.COV2.S)
https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analyticsSOAP/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+42287887

For anyone who is not bothered to search through database here is summary:

Total reactions for the experimental mRNA vaccine Tozinameran (code BNT162b2,Comirnaty) from BioNTech/ Pfizer: 5,368 deaths and 170,528 injuries to 08/05/2021
12,435 Blood and lymphatic system disorders incl. 54 deaths
8,551 Cardiac disorders incl. 636 deaths
62 Congenital, familial and genetic disorders incl. 4 deaths
4,828 Ear and labyrinth disorders incl. 3 deaths
153 Endocrine disorders
5,413 Eye disorders incl. 9 deaths
37,167 Gastrointestinal disorders incl. 270 deaths
115,627General disorders and administration site conditions incl. 1719 deaths
279 Hepatobiliary disorders incl. 24 deaths
4,047 Immune system disorders incl. 25 deaths
12,099 Infections and infestations incl. 589 deaths
4,142 Injury, poisoning and procedural complications incl. 72 deaths
8,904 Investigations incl. 196 deaths
2,961 Metabolism and nutrition disorders incl. 109 deaths
59,217 Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders incl. 58 deaths
194 Neoplasms benign, malignant and unspecified (incl cysts and polyps) incl. 11 deaths
73,4 Nervous system disorders incl. 535 deaths
231 Pregnancy, puerperium and perinatal conditions incl. 9 deaths
83 Product issues
7,002 Psychiatric disorders incl. 81 deaths
1,143 Renal and urinary disorders incl. 82 deaths
1,241 Reproductive system and breast disorders incl. 2 deaths
16,257 Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders incl. 619 deaths
18,516 Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders incl. 46 deaths
564 Social circumstances incl. 9 deaths
142 Surgical and medical procedures incl. 9 deaths
9,851 Vascular disorders incl. 197 deaths

Total reactions for the experimental mRNA vaccine mRNA-1273(CX-024414) from Moderna: 2,865 deaths and 22,985 injuries to 08/05/2021
1,047 Blood and lymphatic system disorders incl. 19 deaths
1,674 Cardiac disorders incl. 301 deaths
8 Congenital, familial and genetic disorders incl. 2 deaths
535 Ear and labyrinth disorders
29 Endocrine disorders incl. 1 death
793 Eye disorders incl. 4 deaths
4,952 Gastrointestinal disorders incl. 100 deaths
16,192 General disorders and administration site conditions incl. 1255 deaths
98 Hepatobiliary disorders incl. 6 deaths
587 Immune system disorders incl. 4 deaths
1,906 Infections and infestations incl. 151 deaths
1,042 Injury, poisoning and procedural complications incl. 53 deaths
1,395 Investigations incl. 68 deaths
670 Metabolism and nutrition disorders incl. 58 deaths
7,143 Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders incl. 58 deaths
60 Neoplasms benign, malignant and unspecified (incl cysts and polyps) incl. 11 deaths
9,617 Nervous system disorders incl. 294 deaths
62 Pregnancy, puerperium and perinatal conditions
11 Product issues
1,118 Psychiatric disorders incl. 45 deaths
383 Renal and urinary disorders incl. 32 deaths
135 Reproductive system and breast disorders incl. 1 death
2,822 Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders incl. 255 deaths
2,901 Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders incl. 22 deaths
214 Social circumstances incl. 9 deaths
131 Surgical and medical procedures incl. 16 deaths
1,526 Vascular disorders incl. 100 deaths

Total reactions for the experimental vaccine AZD1222/VAXZEVRIA (CHADOX1 NCOV-19) from Oxford/ AstraZeneca: 2,102 deaths and 208,873 injuries to 08/05/2021
6,221 Blood and lymphatic system disorders incl. 86 deaths
8,504 Cardiac disorders incl. 261 deaths
83 Congenital, familial and genetic disorders incl. 2 deaths
5,774 Ear and labyrinth disorders
174 Endocrine disorders incl. 2 deaths
9,158 Eye disorders incl. 7 deaths
62,739 Gastrointestinal disorders incl. 99 deaths
158,518General disorders and administration site conditions incl. 604 deaths
319 Hepatobiliary disorders incl. 18 deaths
2,135 Immune system disorders incl. 8 deaths
12,002 Infections and infestations incl. 138 deaths
4,991 Injury, poisoning and procedural complications incl. 33 deaths
11,441 Investigations incl. 38 deaths
7,621 Metabolism and nutrition disorders incl. 31 deaths
93,094 Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders incl. 24 deaths
178 Neoplasms benign, malignant and unspecified (incl cysts and polyps) incl. 5 deaths
125,892Nervous system disorders incl. 318 deaths
128 Pregnancy, puerperium and perinatal conditions incl. 1 death
64 Product issues
10,895 Psychiatric disorders incl. 17 deaths
1,976 Renal and urinary disorders incl. 20 deaths
2,519 Reproductive system and breast disorders
18,411 Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders incl. 228 deaths
26,202 Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders incl. 13 deaths
475 Social circumstances incl. 4 deaths
431 Surgical and medical procedures incl. 14 deaths
10,653 Vascular disorders incl. 131 deaths

Total reactions for the experimental COVID-19 vaccine JANSSEN (AD26.COV2.S) from Johnson & Johnson: 235 deaths and 2,873 injuries to 08/05/2021
79 Blood and lymphatic system disorders incl. 7 deaths
169 Cardiac disorders incl. 22 deaths
3 Congenital, familial and genetic disorders
45 Ear and labyrinth disorders
3 Endocrine disorders incl. 1 death
110 Eye disorders incl. 1 death
783 Gastrointestinal disorders incl. 6 deaths
2,071 General disorders and administration site conditions incl. 67 deaths
20 Hepatobiliary disorders incl. 1 death
35 Immune system disorders
140 Infections and infestations incl. 6 deaths
117 Injury, poisoning and procedural complications incl. 2 deaths
507 Investigations incl. 11 deaths
56 Metabolism and nutrition disorders incl. 6 deaths
1,348 Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders incl. 9 deaths
4 Neoplasms benign, malignant and unspecified (incl cysts and polyps)
1,852 Nervous system disorders incl. 32 deaths
5 Pregnancy, puerperium and perinatal conditions
4 Product issues
116 Psychiatric disorders incl. 2 deaths
35 Renal and urinary disorders incl. 3 deaths
29 Reproductive system and breast disorders
366 Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders incl. 18 deaths
172 Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders incl. 1 death
20 Social circumstances incl. 1 death
80 Surgical and medical procedures incl. 10 deaths
502 Vascular disorders incl. 29 deaths

Timberrrrrrrr · 19-05-2021 7:47am

patnor1011 wrote: »

The European database of suspected drug reaction reports is EudraVigilance, which also tracks reports of injuries and deaths following the experimental COVID-19 “vaccines.”

Here is what EudraVigilance states about their database:

This website was launched by the European Medicines Agency in 2012 to provide public access to reports of suspected side effects (also known as suspected adverse drug reactions). These reports are submitted electronically to EudraVigilance by national medicines regulatory authorities and by pharmaceutical companies that hold marketing authorisations (licences) for the medicines.

EudraVigilance is a system designed for collecting reports of suspected side effects. These reports are used for evaluating the benefits and risks of medicines during their development and monitoring their safety following their authorisation in the European Economic Area (EEA). EudraVigilance has been in use since December 2001.

This website was launched to comply with the EudraVigilance Access Policy, which was developed to improve public health by supporting the monitoring of the safety of medicines and to increase transparency for stakeholders, including the general public.

The Management Board of the European Medicines Agency first approved the EudraVigilance Access Policy in December 2010. A revision was adopted by the Board in December 2015 based on the 2010 pharmacovigilance legislation. The policy aims to provide stakeholders such as national medicines regulatory authorities in the EEA, the European Commission, healthcare professionals, patients and consumers, as well as the pharmaceutical industry and research organisations, with access to reports on suspected side effects.

Transparency is a key guiding principle of the Agency, and is pivotal to building trust and confidence in the regulatory process. By increasing transparency, the Agency is better able to address the growing need among stakeholders, including the general public, for access to information. (Source.)

Their report through May 8, 2021 lists 10,570 deaths and 405,259 injuries following injections of four experimental COVID-19 shots:
- COVID-19 MRNA VACCINE MODERNA (CX-024414)
https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+40983312
-COVID-19 MRNA VACCINE PFIZER-BIONTECH
https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+42325700
-COVID-19 VACCINE ASTRAZENECA (CHADOX1 NCOV-19)
https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+40995439
-COVID-19 VACCINE JANSSEN (AD26.COV2.S)
https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analyticsSOAP/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+42287887

For anyone who is not bothered to search through database here is summary:

Total reactions for the experimental mRNA vaccine Tozinameran (code BNT162b2,Comirnaty) from BioNTech/ Pfizer: 5,368 deaths and 170,528 injuries to 08/05/2021
12,435 Blood and lymphatic system disorders incl. 54 deaths
8,551 Cardiac disorders incl. 636 deaths
62 Congenital, familial and genetic disorders incl. 4 deaths
4,828 Ear and labyrinth disorders incl. 3 deaths
153 Endocrine disorders
5,413 Eye disorders incl. 9 deaths
37,167 Gastrointestinal disorders incl. 270 deaths
115,627General disorders and administration site conditions incl. 1719 deaths
279 Hepatobiliary disorders incl. 24 deaths
4,047 Immune system disorders incl. 25 deaths
12,099 Infections and infestations incl. 589 deaths
4,142 Injury, poisoning and procedural complications incl. 72 deaths
8,904 Investigations incl. 196 deaths
2,961 Metabolism and nutrition disorders incl. 109 deaths
59,217 Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders incl. 58 deaths
194 Neoplasms benign, malignant and unspecified (incl cysts and polyps) incl. 11 deaths
73,4 Nervous system disorders incl. 535 deaths
231 Pregnancy, puerperium and perinatal conditions incl. 9 deaths
83 Product issues
7,002 Psychiatric disorders incl. 81 deaths
1,143 Renal and urinary disorders incl. 82 deaths
1,241 Reproductive system and breast disorders incl. 2 deaths
16,257 Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders incl. 619 deaths
18,516 Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders incl. 46 deaths
564 Social circumstances incl. 9 deaths
142 Surgical and medical procedures incl. 9 deaths
9,851 Vascular disorders incl. 197 deaths

Total reactions for the experimental mRNA vaccine mRNA-1273(CX-024414) from Moderna: 2,865 deaths and 22,985 injuries to 08/05/2021
1,047 Blood and lymphatic system disorders incl. 19 deaths
1,674 Cardiac disorders incl. 301 deaths
8 Congenital, familial and genetic disorders incl. 2 deaths
535 Ear and labyrinth disorders
29 Endocrine disorders incl. 1 death
793 Eye disorders incl. 4 deaths
4,952 Gastrointestinal disorders incl. 100 deaths
16,192 General disorders and administration site conditions incl. 1255 deaths
98 Hepatobiliary disorders incl. 6 deaths
587 Immune system disorders incl. 4 deaths
1,906 Infections and infestations incl. 151 deaths
1,042 Injury, poisoning and procedural complications incl. 53 deaths
1,395 Investigations incl. 68 deaths
670 Metabolism and nutrition disorders incl. 58 deaths
7,143 Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders incl. 58 deaths
60 Neoplasms benign, malignant and unspecified (incl cysts and polyps) incl. 11 deaths
9,617 Nervous system disorders incl. 294 deaths
62 Pregnancy, puerperium and perinatal conditions
11 Product issues
1,118 Psychiatric disorders incl. 45 deaths
383 Renal and urinary disorders incl. 32 deaths
135 Reproductive system and breast disorders incl. 1 death
2,822 Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders incl. 255 deaths
2,901 Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders incl. 22 deaths
214 Social circumstances incl. 9 deaths
131 Surgical and medical procedures incl. 16 deaths
1,526 Vascular disorders incl. 100 deaths

Total reactions for the experimental vaccine AZD1222/VAXZEVRIA (CHADOX1 NCOV-19) from Oxford/ AstraZeneca: 2,102 deaths and 208,873 injuries to 08/05/2021
6,221 Blood and lymphatic system disorders incl. 86 deaths
8,504 Cardiac disorders incl. 261 deaths
83 Congenital, familial and genetic disorders incl. 2 deaths
5,774 Ear and labyrinth disorders
174 Endocrine disorders incl. 2 deaths
9,158 Eye disorders incl. 7 deaths
62,739 Gastrointestinal disorders incl. 99 deaths
158,518General disorders and administration site conditions incl. 604 deaths
319 Hepatobiliary disorders incl. 18 deaths
2,135 Immune system disorders incl. 8 deaths
12,002 Infections and infestations incl. 138 deaths
4,991 Injury, poisoning and procedural complications incl. 33 deaths
11,441 Investigations incl. 38 deaths
7,621 Metabolism and nutrition disorders incl. 31 deaths
93,094 Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders incl. 24 deaths
178 Neoplasms benign, malignant and unspecified (incl cysts and polyps) incl. 5 deaths
125,892Nervous system disorders incl. 318 deaths
128 Pregnancy, puerperium and perinatal conditions incl. 1 death
64 Product issues
10,895 Psychiatric disorders incl. 17 deaths
1,976 Renal and urinary disorders incl. 20 deaths
2,519 Reproductive system and breast disorders
18,411 Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders incl. 228 deaths
26,202 Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders incl. 13 deaths
475 Social circumstances incl. 4 deaths
431 Surgical and medical procedures incl. 14 deaths
10,653 Vascular disorders incl. 131 deaths

Total reactions for the experimental COVID-19 vaccine JANSSEN (AD26.COV2.S) from Johnson & Johnson: 235 deaths and 2,873 injuries to 08/05/2021
79 Blood and lymphatic system disorders incl. 7 deaths
169 Cardiac disorders incl. 22 deaths
3 Congenital, familial and genetic disorders
45 Ear and labyrinth disorders
3 Endocrine disorders incl. 1 death
110 Eye disorders incl. 1 death
783 Gastrointestinal disorders incl. 6 deaths
2,071 General disorders and administration site conditions incl. 67 deaths
20 Hepatobiliary disorders incl. 1 death
35 Immune system disorders
140 Infections and infestations incl. 6 deaths
117 Injury, poisoning and procedural complications incl. 2 deaths
507 Investigations incl. 11 deaths
56 Metabolism and nutrition disorders incl. 6 deaths
1,348 Musculoskeletal and connective tissue disorders incl. 9 deaths
4 Neoplasms benign, malignant and unspecified (incl cysts and polyps)
1,852 Nervous system disorders incl. 32 deaths
5 Pregnancy, puerperium and perinatal conditions
4 Product issues
116 Psychiatric disorders incl. 2 deaths
35 Renal and urinary disorders incl. 3 deaths
29 Reproductive system and breast disorders
366 Respiratory, thoracic and mediastinal disorders incl. 18 deaths
172 Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders incl. 1 death
20 Social circumstances incl. 1 death
80 Surgical and medical procedures incl. 10 deaths
502 Vascular disorders incl. 29 deaths

Wow you have some cheek! You copy and paste a wall of text and links which you obviously haven't looked through yourself and then say "For anyone who is not bothered to search through database" :pac:

19-05-2021 9:07am

patnor1011 wrote: »

The European database of suspected drug reaction reports is EudraVigilance, which also tracks reports of injuries and deaths following the experimental COVID-19 “vaccines.”

Lol. again "scare quotes" where they are not needed.
The covid vaccines are vaccines. Are you going back to claiming they are not after denying you claimed this?

patnor1011 wrote: »

Here is what EudraVigilance states about their database:

From your links:
http://www.adrreports.eu/en/understanding_reports.html

When you view a web report of suspected side effects (also known as suspected adverse drug reactions) for a medicine or active substance, it is important to understand how the web report fits into the overall safety profile of a medicine.

Here is a list of important points to consider when viewing a web report:
...

For a medicine to be authorised for use, its benefits should outweigh any associated risks of side effects. At the time of authorisation of a medicine, the benefit-risk balance has been assessed and the benefits judged to outweigh the risks. All the information available on this website relates to medicines that have been assessed in this way and authorised for use in the European Economic Area (EEA).

...

A case can be reported on the basis of a suspicion that the side effect is associated with the medicine. It does not necessarily mean that any link between the medicine and the side effect has been established; the side effect may have occurred due to other factors, for example the disease for which the medicine is being taken or an interaction between two or more of the patient's medicines.

...

The information on this website cannot be used to determine the likelihood of experiencing a side effect. Other information, such as how many people take the medicine and how long it has been on the market, need to be considered.

So again, we see that the source you are misrepresenting contains the exact same disclaimer as the VAERS data did when you tried this dishonest tactic.

Did you not read your own link?

patnor1011 wrote: »

For anyone who is not bothered to search through database here is summary:

So we know that you're just going to run away from any points made about this data and your misuse of it.

So perhaps you could just explain what you believe this data shows exactly?

Are you claiming now again that the vaccines are more danger than the virus?
Are you claiming that the governments around the world are somehow conspiring to cover up this data by presenting it in an easily accessible way?

19-05-2021 9:20am

Actually did a little more clicking around that site and came across this:

Disclaimer
Each time you search for a web report you will be shown a disclaimer. To view individual reports you must confirm that you have read and understood the disclaimer.

The disclaimer contains the following information:

The information on this website does not reflect any confirmation of a potential link between the medicine and the observed effect(s).

...

The number of suspected side effects in EudraVigilance should not serve as a basis for determining the likelihood of a side effect occurring. This is because the numbers need to be put into context with other factors, such as how many people take the medicine and how long the medicine has been on the market.

...

The side-effect reports in EudraVigilance do not represent all available information concerning the benefits and risks of a medicine and should not be used in isolation to make decisions regarding a patient's treatment regimen; other sources of information, including the product/prescribing information, should be consulted first.

So we see that to actually get those reports, you have to read this disclaimer.
So we know you read it. We know you know that the information you are using cannot be used in the way you're using it.
Yet, you still choose to misrepresent it.

patnor1011 · 19-05-2021 11:05am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Wow you have some cheek! You copy and paste a wall of text and links which you obviously haven't looked through yourself and then say "For anyone who is not bothered to search through database" :pac:

It is all there. Sorry if you require one liners. I suggest you put me on ignore as I did with few posters here and you will be spared walls of text.
All you will see next time will be nice:
"This message is hidden because ..... is on your ignore list."

If you want to dispute numbers in that "wall of text" have a go at that database yourself. It lists all outcomes included fatal and reactions for every of 4 vaccines mentioned. But it is better to post emoji and little insult when you do not have anything to disprove information posted. Quite normal reaction in this thread and pretty much expected.

Dohnjoe · 19-05-2021 11:12am

patnor1011 wrote: »

It is all there.

It's not all there, you left out the critical context, likely deliberately. Coincidentally exactly the same "mistake" as the other poster above. Here is the context again:

For a medicine to be authorised for use, its benefits should outweigh any associated risks of side effects. At the time of authorisation of a medicine, the benefit-risk balance has been assessed and the benefits judged to outweigh the risks. All the information available on this website relates to medicines that have been assessed in this way and authorised for use in the European Economic Area (EEA).

...

A case can be reported on the basis of a suspicion that the side effect is associated with the medicine. It does not necessarily mean that any link between the medicine and the side effect has been established; the side effect may have occurred due to other factors, for example the disease for which the medicine is being taken or an interaction between two or more of the patient's medicines.

...

The information on this website cannot be used to determine the likelihood of experiencing a side effect. Other information, such as how many people take the medicine and how long it has been on the market, need to be considered.

19-05-2021 11:16am

patnor1011 wrote: »

It is all there. Sorry if you require one liners. I suggest you put me on ignore as I did with few posters here and you will be spared walls of text.
All you will see next time will be nice:
"This message is hidden because ..... is on your ignore list."

Yup. It's a very brave thing to do.
However, when people point out giant gaping flaws and outright lies in your posts, you can't see them to even attempt to address them
Other people can see these things being pointed out however. And they see that you have to basically just stick your fingers in your ears and run away from them.

patnor1011 wrote: »

If you want to dispute numbers in that "wall of text" have a go at that database yourself. It lists all outcomes included fatal and reactions for every of 4 vaccines mentioned.

That's not quite the full story as you know though. You are just lying and claiming that these numbers show something it doesn't.

This is easy to see when you do actually go to these databases and read what they warn you about.

I suspect it's claims like yours are the reason they have those disclaimers all over the site.

Dohnjoe · 19-05-2021 11:22am

King Mob wrote: »

That's not quite the full story as you know though. You are just lying and claiming that these numbers show something it doesn't.

This is easy to see when you do actually go to these databases and read what they warn you about.

I suspect it's claims like yours are the reason they have those disclaimers all over the site.

The sheer dishonesty is staggering. These posters know the context but they leave it out on purpose to deceive other people.

19-05-2021 11:32am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The sheer dishonesty is staggering. These posters know the context but they leave it out on purpose to deceive other people.

In fairness, it's entirely possible that patnor never actually visited any of the sites he linked and is just copy pasting from some conspiracy site. The conspiracy site might be the ones who are deliberately leaving out the disclaimers.

That would make it very hypocritical given this statement:

For anyone who is not bothered to search through database ...

drunkmonkey · 19-05-2021 7:09pm

I've seen this pop up a few times in the last few days, More conspiracy theory?

https://twitter.com/wittgenstein78/status/1395032539522387978?s=20

Dohnjoe · 19-05-2021 8:31pm

I checked the list of people banned from the Covid threads on other forums, now I see them posting here. Hmm.

drunkmonkey · 19-05-2021 9:09pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Hmm.

Hmm indeed, a Nobel prize winner in a conspiracy thread.

Dohnjoe · 19-05-2021 11:05pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Hmm indeed, a Nobel prize winner in a conspiracy thread.

I've seen this pop up a few times in the last few days, More conspiracy theory?

Yes. He also takes homeopathy seriously and is a supporter of anti-vaxxer Wakefield, so naturally he's become a magnet for cranks.

Montagnier argued that the Coronavirus disease 2019 was man-made in a laboratory and that it might have been the result of an attempt to create a vaccine for HIV/AIDS. His allegation came after the United States had launched a probe into whether the virus came from a laboratory. According to Montagnier, the "presence of elements of HIV and germ of malaria in the genome of coronavirus is highly suspect and the characteristics of the virus could not have arisen naturally."[45] However this was described as "a conspiracy vision that does not relate to the real science" by Jean-Francois Delfraissy, an immunologist and head of the scientific council that advises the French government on the COVID-19 pandemic.[46]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luc_Montagnier

The current consensus of virologists and related scientists is that Covid is natural.

drunkmonkey · 19-05-2021 11:22pm

Ahh so your going with the bat theory, it jumped species? Fauci is in the clear, it couldn't have come from the lab.

I didn't put much notice in that video, Listening to Kingston Mills this evening, it sounds more like some of the variants can bypass the vaccine. He's getting slated over in the vaccine thread for saying it though.

Dohnjoe · 19-05-2021 11:27pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Ahh so your going with the bat theory, it jumped species?

Yup.

patnor1011 · 20-05-2021 4:13am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The current consensus of virologists and related scientists is that Covid is natural.

The current consensus lol.

There was current consensus for many years that Mr Epstein was just a successful hedge fund manager. Or even more current one that Mr Gates didn't know him.

"The current consensus of some virologists and related scientists is that Covid is natural."
There. More accurate now even though it is nonsensical. In case you do not know Covid is one or series of effects which may be caused by sars cov2 virus. This virus may or may not evolved naturally, only time will show.
And we are back in bat soup eating conspiracy again lol.

20-05-2021 5:42am

patnor1011 wrote: »

The current consensus lol.

"The current consensus of some virologists and related scientists is that Covid is natural."
There. More accurate now even though it is nonsensical.

Yes. The majority of opinion and evidence point towards a natural origin. There is not much actual scientific evidence that points to a lab based origin.

The number of scientists who are actively saying that it had a lab based origin are in the minority and there isn't that much solid evidence to support that idea.

Conspiracy mongers and their followers like to take the opinion of these scientists and over blow them to support their wild conspiracies when those scientists most likely would not want anything to do with those conspiracies.

patnor1011 wrote: »

In case you do not know Covid is one or series of effects which may be caused by sars cov2 virus.

Lol Whut?
Again, I think you don't actually understand the terms you are using. Much as you don't actually understand vaccines.

Covid 19 is is short for: Coronavirus disease 2019
And it is caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

What other effects or series of effects are you refering to?

I suspect that this claim is just empty technobabble with no actual meaning or knowledge behind it.

Also, it seems now you are abandoning entirely your lies and misrepresentations about the Vaccine safety data.
As such, I think it's clear to all that you aren't able to counter the obvious facts of your lazy attempt at deception and misrepresentation.

patnor1011 wrote: »

This virus may or may not evolved naturally, only time will show.
And we are back in bat soup eating conspiracy again lol.

lol.
I find this statement very funny given how often and how vigourously you react when you believe your position is being misrepresented.

20-05-2021 6:12am

King Mob wrote: »

Lol. again "scare quotes" where they are not needed.
The covid vaccines are vaccines. Are you going back to claiming they are not after denying you claimed this?

From your links:
http://www.adrreports.eu/en/understanding_reports.html

So again, we see that the source you are misrepresenting contains the exact same disclaimer as the VAERS data did when you tried this dishonest tactic.

Did you not read your own link?

So we know that you're just going to run away from any points made about this data and your misuse of it.

So perhaps you could just explain what you believe this data shows exactly?

Are you claiming now again that the vaccines are more danger than the virus?
Are you claiming that the governments around the world are somehow conspiring to cover up this data by presenting it in an easily accessible way?

The data on Eudra Vigilance and on VAERS is subject to ratification in the future. Same with records globally. However that has always been the standard practice with adverse events and reactions to all other substances ever recorded by these official sites. It takes time for the adverse events to be verified and even longer to come to courts etc.

So it is not as if some new flimsy standards are being applied here - medical personnel are reporting adverse events just the same as they have been doing for decades. In a preliminary fashion.

The big difference now is that the preliminary adverse events reports to official recording sites are absolutely huge compared to other substances similarly reported upon heretofore.

And the reports are being completely ignored by govts, whereas for far FAR fewer preliminary reports of adverse events in the past, substances have been immediately withdrawn.

That one is only permitted to post this fact in a conspiracy forum is very strange. If it was any other substance recording even a fraction of the preliminary unverified adverse reactions like these vaccines are generating there would be great general alarm.

Plus some covid vaccines used already on millions and still in use for millions have already been discontinued by countries such as Norway and Denmark, and other places.

The complete and willful blindness to ever growing records of preliminary adverse reaction including possibly 1000s of deaths is remarkably odd and notable.

20-05-2021 6:22am

While I am here I may as well mention Geert Vanden Bossche. He does not come across as a fevered person in the way that some can. His educated and experience based rationale for why mass vaccination should not be carried out in the heat of a pandemic, a rule well known to immunologists up until now, makes sense. Vaccination in such circumstances directly encourages vaccine escape.

It remains to be seen whether or not his prognoses come to pass, and I would dread it if they do, but in any event the substance of his arguments should be under consideration in open scientific debate at the highest levels. That it is completely ignored is another strange thing and that I am again having to post in the conspiracy forum to avoid the wrath of moderation and of readers desperate for a silver bullet solution to all our covid ills, is also odd.

https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/

Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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