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New Alternative News Channel "GB News" chaired by Andrew Neil launching - read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,537 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    We seem to have conveniently left David Starkey behind.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    One potential example replete with lazy generalisations proves nothing. I want to see objective proof.

    GB News was set up to score money off edgelords and racists but these people have no interest in paying for anything so it's failing accordingly.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm going to make the prediction here and now.

    GB News will hire Starkey in the coming days for a history-style patriotic program each week, perhaps a Saturday.

    Far from being left behind, I think we're witnessing the resurrection of Starkey.

    Slowly but surely, Starkey is appearing more and more on TV or significant YouTube channels, often to significantly favourable reaction.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    If GB News exists to champion the "left behind", why don't they watch it?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,537 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I'm sure the racist thickos that watch GBNews will love him. He can pontificate on areas that are way beyond his competence. He certainly won't be talking about the only area of history he knows something about. I can't see much call from racist thickos for lectures on the Tudors.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think you're conflating two very different things.

    There is an enormous number of people in the UK population who are anti-Woke. Indeed, they gave Boris Johnson a thumping majority in the last election - including formerly left-wing voters who are traditionally associated with Labour.

    Then there is GB News programs. Are these programs attractive to the above population?

    It's entirely consistent that you can have an enormous market but that the product is not attractive to that very market. It doesn't mean the market doesn't exist. It means the product must improve.

    And GB News will improve; it has no choice.

    Especially now with the baptism of Morgan's new channel; GB News must up its game or be consumed by this new right-wing channel and the market that we have hitherto discussed.

    And if that's the way the cards fall, so be it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    So if it's not appealing, that means GB News is woke?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,520 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Starkey gave a guest lecture when I was in college and pissed off one of my lecturers who comes from NI. I can't even remember what it was he said, but the interesting thing for me was there was a "Young Conservatives" group there. Students dress like students, but these young guys were all wearing suits/tweed and carrying umbrellas. Nothing like it in Ireland. This was over a decade ago, I wonder if they still exist or if they've become something else.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    What else could it be? The miniscule pool of snowflakes lost their sad little minds when Hari took the knee.

    Feel free to offer an alternative explanation. Saying the product isn't good enough is a bit vague.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Many British people are turned off by BBC programming, but it says nothing about the market potential either.

    It's the same principle. You cannot dismiss the existence of a market based on the product of the extant bodies.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Again, you fail to answer the question.

    If a product doesn't sell, it means the market isn't there or it's already being more effectively catered to, in this by conspiracy theorists, edgelords and white supremacists on social media.

    Perhaps the Murdoch channel will do something different but broadcast media is dead.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Let me give my own perspective, then. Perhaps that will give some sort of clarification.

    I agree with the anti-Woke agenda; I think the Woke agenda is a terminal cancer that renders asunder any concept of culture we have worked hard to create.

    That said, I don't always believe that GB News does an effective job at catering to people of my persuasion.

    Sometimes yes. Always? No.

    I have my criticisms.

    I'm not a loyal dog of GB News.

    But I acknowledge both the existence of the market as well as the existence of the possibility of a channel that can cater to that market.

    To dismiss the existence of that market is to deny reality - often in favour of one's own political persuasion.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    And again you've moved the goalposts. I was asking why you think GB News is failing to capture the market you allege exists. Saying it isn't good enough isn't an answer.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    On a dying channel? Nah mate, if anything Murdoch the racist low life "may" offer him a one hour segment a week but GBbeebies won't hold him.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Nahhhh gb "news" is a dying daffodil in a field of nettles



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Would you say David Irving is a victim of cancel culture? Or that he simply expressed awful views that migrated him to the edges of public discourse? Like if your rhetoric is ****, media organisations may simply not associate with as a result.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Are you comparing the seriousness of Holocaust denial against the belief that trans women are biological men?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'd be inclined to liken those who are obsessed with attacking transgender people to the types who argue for conversion therapy etc. It's a different type of toxic but very much so dangerous.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not really, it's a separate issue to Holocaust deniers and I gave an example that is more similar. You don't seem to view the targeting of transgender people as bigoted or nasty or "serious". I do. It's not akin to Holocaust denial but conversion therapy isn't either. But it's serious nonetheless.


    Also, you're a tad obsessed, you brought transgender people up. My original point is awful people have regularly been not invited back on for decades. It's not remotely new.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,124 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    "I'm not a loyal dog of GBnews" says the man who will twist himself into a pretzel to defend any racist or homophobe who appears on the station.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,578 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I'm not a loyal dog of GB News.

    Oh fuckin LOL 🤣


    You spend months shilling for this piece of crap. Then you get your ass banned for x amount of time and when you come back you're straight onto this thread again to shill once more.

    "I'm not a loyal dog of GB News" indeed.

    Can you even hear yourself.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    David Irving is a good example.

    He wasn't cancelled; in fact, he was all over the media at one point.

    His historical interpretation was torn asunder by other academic experts - even in the courts - and this delegitimisation is what kept him off the screens.

    As daft as David Starkey's comment was, it's not sufficient to give him a life sentence and pariah status in society, as well as ruination of his career. It's disproportionate and comes across as vindictive.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Except the thing is, it wasn't an isolated comment from Starkey. He's had multiple controversies over racist comments for the last decade, his latest was merely the final straw rather than the isolated incident you attempt to portray it as.


    Also your logic is that somebody should be platformed until it's reached a point they're in court over their statements? Not all awful comments are gonna end up in court but this doesn't mean such idiots should be given carte blanche.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,298 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    But he wasn't given a "life sentence", or made a "social pariah". The organisations he worked with, no longer wished to work with him. Any other organisation could have taken him on, but they didn't. Why? Likely for the same reason the universities cut ties with him. His words, which were not an isolated incident as he made similarly controversial remarks regarding race before, were not worth keeping him on for, especially at the risk he could say similarly offensive things during a lecture.

    Now, GB News at the very least have him as a guest, and shock horror.... no one cares. No one is protesting, no one is calling for his removal. No one cares. He's free to work for GB News, and GB News are free to hire him.

    The audience are free to decide not to watch GB News if they don't like him on it. A decision most people seem to have made long before his first appearance.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The same principle applies to Nick Griffin. He was exposed precisely because of his Question Time appearance. It was far more edifying for the public to see this man on screen, rather than having him no-platformed (and there were protests at the time arguing he should not have had a platform).

    In the end, the no platform route would have achieved nothing, whereas exposure on platform proved to be a far more effective and terminal remedy.

    Now, I'm not comparing Nick Griffin to David Starkey.

    I'm merely zooming out to make the broader point that no platforming / censorship might sound good in practice, but it very often has precisely the opposite outcome.

    And good on GB News and LBC for reinstating Starkey on their platforms. Hopefully more follow suit soon.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's sort of telling that you're ignoring the fact his remarks weren't an isolated incident.... Like that time you spent ages ignoring that they were platforming a domestic abuser and kept claiming he was hilarious.


    In terms of academic institutes wishing to cut ties with him, the frequency of his racist remarks would tend to bring their name into disrepute. Similar to how Dolores Cahill negatively impacted the reputation of UCD. Also I'm guessing his contracts would tend to have a clause around such things.


    So ultimately, he faced consequences for being a racist prat. Poor mite.


    Also, the fact that British media were giving platforms in the first place to the likes of Griffin is more a negative reflection upon the clickbait style of TV they're trying to push. Similar to how Farage was taken down on RTE the other day, the reality is he shouldn't be platformed, he's got pretty much nothing of merit to contribute to discussion so putting him on to take him down is pointless. The people who share his viewpoints will continue to share them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    What exactly is this "woke agenda" you keep banging on about.

    It seems to me that people just don't like the generally accepted social norms that exists today.

    There have always been social norms of behavior, they can evolve and change but always exist.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Nick Griffin was clearly the same sort of racist trash as Starkey, Widdecombe and everyone else you've fawned over. It was blatantly obvious what he was. If private platforms want to promote white supremacy, that's their call but I don't see why my licence fee should be spent on sad old white losers with small genitals.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't think you can seriously classify Nick Griffin in the same category as Anne Widdecombe and David Starkey.

    At that point, I think all sense of perspective is lost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    No because CC sets a much lower bar that couldn't get much lower. Has David Starkey ever written a book that is overtly racist?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I absolutely can. Desperate, aged, trash from yesteryear so pitifully starved for attention that they have to come back onto their special echo chamber.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Come on, Nick Griffin is an overt white supremacist anti-Semitic racist, and David Irving is another anti-Semitic, Holocaust denying Hitler sympathiser.

    Anne Widdecombe is a Catholic.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Being a Catholic means you can't be racist now?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,124 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Stop pretending Starkey only made 1 silly comment.

    We all have Google who are you trying to fool



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,298 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    For the sake of clarity, here's what Starkey previously said while discussing the London riots back in 2011:

    'What has happened is that the substantial section of the chavs that you wrote about have become black. The whites have become black. A particular sort of violent, destructive, nihilistic gangster culture has become the fashion.

    "Black and white, boy and girl operate in this language together. This language, which is wholly false, which is this Jamaican patois that's been intruded in England.

    "This is why so many of us have this sense of literally a foreign country."

    Mr Starkey added: "Listen to David Lammy [Labour MP for Tottenham] an archetypal successful black man.

    "If you turn the screen off, so you were listening to him on radio, you would think he was white."

    There also other comments he's made about Islam too.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No idea however he has made multiple racist comments in the media and it's pissed off the academic community for years. He's also targeted public figures such as David Lammy as part of his racist remarks. Pretty logical that a lot of outlets wouldn't wish to associate with him. Probably says a lot about you and Eskimo that these are the kind of people you rush to defend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    The UK academic community are fast becoming a bunch of critical race theorists American style so saying he pissed them off to my mind is a good thing. You talk of David Lammey and academics as if they are the arbiters of who gets cancelled and who doesn't. Who the hell do they think they are. Starkey is an academic as well is he not.

    David Lammy has his own show on LBC where mostly his topics are one of race. Lammy can't expect to get involved in those topics and be free from having his views criticized. You talk as if Starkey just targeted him for no reason.

    And anyway CC is not about taking away anyone's right to have noting to do with someone, it's more about this trend in calls to have someone removed from their position by demand, and the ongoing Kathleen Stock case as eskimo alluded to is perfect example of that. I'm following that story and she didn't say anything that warrant's her sacking or the vilification that has been going on.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He didn't have his views criticised... Somebody clearly wasn't bothered checking what Starkey said. Racist man says multiple racist things which eventually bit him in the ass. That's the reality.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Incomplete, perhaps intentionally?

    During the London Riots, Starkey made the observation that "the whites have become black". Behind that slogan was meaning, which he later went on to explain what he meant: namely, that black "gangsta" culture had been appropriated by young white youth - including other features of behavior and cultural norms, and the glorification of rap that speaks highly of violence. That's all he meant. True, when you see the shock slogan, you can throw toys out of the proverbial pram. When you see the context, you can agree or disagree - but you have to admit that it may have a kernel of truth.

    Second, when referring to David Lammy as "white" if you didn't see him, he was - again - referring to how successful black people have integrated into British culture; and that these fine examples are the opposite of what you see at the bottom of the social heap (see above).

    What's curious is that the likes of Diane Abbott can spout overtly anti-white racism and nobody on the Left says a word. When it's a creature of the right, then we see the above kind of cancellation (for what it's worth, I wouldn't want Diane Abbott cancelled for her views either).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,578 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Irving never wrote a book that was overtly racist either. So what.

    His hot water began when he started going around conventions centres trying to claim that the entirety of the holocaust was in question because he found out that the gas chamber at Auschwitz was a reconstruction and not the real deal in the early 90's. His interest in such things was inspired by Ernst Zundel when he was asked by the defence to act as a witness. His publishers, Penguin, then decided that that was enough for them to cut ties and his books started to get withdrawn from Sandhurst etc.

    Starkey has made numerous, at best, questionable remarks involving race and his hot water stems from that. He's slipped a number of times and revealed just enough about what he thinks. This is why institutions and organisations are distancing themselves and their "brand" from him.

    Both men are victims of the own dubious views and vile personalities. It has nothing to do with the books that they wrote.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Anyone else genuinely surprised that Stephen Yaxley-Lennon isn't a presenter on GB News? They're clearly going that way.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,578 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I think that yob may be a step too far for Gbeebees.

    But, I bet some on here would be falling over themselves trying to claim how "misunderstood" he is if he did appear and that he's really a nice lad that's been "cancelled" by the...ahem..."marxist woke".

    🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,298 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    And you don't see why universities might not want to continue with a man who has to spend every 2nd lecture saying "No, what I actually meant last week was..."?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tommy Robinson is a scumbag, whereas David Starkey and Anne Widdecombe are not.

    Nobody wants Robinson anywhere near GB News.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,578 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Both Starkey and Widdecombe are reprehensible in their own way.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Reprehensible for you, highly respectable to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,578 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH




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