Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

In this case the vaccines don't appear to have worked very well for patient A. Would they be as responsive to further treatment.

Questionable because if a doctor is presented with a 85 year old double vaccinated patient or a 21 year old unvaccinated patient the doctor is not going to let the 21 year old die because "well he should have taken the jab"

The same way a skinny 85 year old will not be given the icu over an obese child if both are having heart attacks.

To come out with comments like yours shows how little you know about triage. If it was factored on health choices alone then anyone who drank or ate fast food would be left to die for the people who ate healthily at the doctor isn't going to spend time ticking off some kind of "naughty or nice" list to decide.

The reality is its who has the best chance of survival and most amount of life expectancy left. And that is the younger unvaccinated person.

Just because you think it's unfair doesn't mean Jack **** and not how healthare works.

The doctor is not some moral arbiter for his patients.

Sickening people think like this at all tbh

I`m not saying anybody will be denied or that they should. Triage calls are made by doctors, and during this pandemic doctors were often called on where health services were over-run to make life and death decisions based on who in their view had the best chance of survival. I would not see it as beyond the bounds of possibilities that a triage doctor would have to make a call where the only difference between two patients is their vaccination status. I cannot see if asked how one was chosen over the other, the doctor would say it was based on the toss of a coin.

Absolutely. We have half the ICU capacity per capita of the EU average, one quarter Germany's... Despite us being one of the richest countries in the EU. In 2020 before corona hit we had significantly lower ICU capacity and hospital bed capacity per capita, than at any time in the previous 40 years in Ireland.

This by itself is absolutely damning, and heads should be rolling about it. But the media is too in hock to government advertising money at the moment to raise it. FF & FG know the public would turn on them very, very fast if it became known they've overseen the gradual gutting of our healthcare system over years.

Its also now becoming apparent that the government was banking on zero covid being the solution to this, first from lockdowns and when they failed from vaccinations. Its why they haven't expanded our ICU capacity massively over the last 2 years, when everyone has known the biggest issue we face from covid is overwhelming of the hospitals. The media should be calling them out for this, but again nothing...

If you were the triage doctor based with the choice who would you chose The one who attempted to avoid becoming infected or the one who did not ?

I would hope to have more information about the patients than just whether they had taken a vaccine or not.

If one were obese I'd save the other if they were a healthy weight.

Triage doctors very often do not have the time to do in-depth medical assessment . Their decision are made on the assessment of the immediate information they have they have.

I see "there is no acceptable level of deaths" is the new reason why we must re-enter lockdown until the virus somehow disappears.

You are now just running around the houses attempting to avoid answering a direct question. But work away wasting your own time

Would it be the closer to the first thing or the last thing in the list of criteria, if you were the doctor?

If a person is double vaccinated and ends up in the ICU with covid they are obviously more unhealthy to begin with than the unvaccinated person who is in the same position. That doesn't determine outcome though. If they are both in need of the same level of care.

But hypothetically if you are saying they are 100% equal (ie perfect twins) before the jab then it would seem the person with some level of antibodies in them will have a better chance at survival and therefore get that bed. But that isn't because they deserve the bed for taking the jab. It's just it bumps them up in survivability.

Again it falls down to who is going to survive and have quality of life years left. Not who took the jab or didn't. which would be arbitrary as that isn't a metric for survival.

On the reverse side if someone has LESS chance of survival even after the jab than the unvaccinated person then the unvaccinated person should get the icu bed.

To be honest with the money we put into health care we shouldn't be at this place. And the government is playing us for fools for directing any energy at vaccinated vs unvaccinated when everyone no matter their choice should be able to get icu because we pay enough god damn taxes for it!

Plenty of restaurants, pubs etc not bothering checking covid certs but they'll be first to be closed in a lock down.

I'd say let everyone look after themselves, majority are vaccinated now, why should anti vaxxers bother us

Triage decisions are made on the basis of the immediate information available. Not on prolonged research into a patients past medical records.