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Towbar socket - no power

  • 20-10-2021 5:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,568 ✭✭✭


    Hi folks,

    Ahead of a weekend away I got a Thule towbar mounted bike carrier. First time I’ve used the hitch since buying the car last month.

    Towbar hitch is great but lights are dead. The Thule unit seems to be the same 7 pin connection as the car (RAV4).

    Wiring seems intact into the hitch connector and the Thule is brand new.

    Any suggestions for anything I can try myself?

    thanks v much,

    quad



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭johndaman66


    Duplicate post deleted...

    Apologies quad_red. I had a long post providing instructions on checks to make posted and the post duplicated. I went to remove the duplicate post, editing and just putting in a note that it was a duplicate and low and behold it removed both posts. This new version of boards while it may have better functionality in places seems to be horrendous on the whole...bring back the old version. Have to be somewhere else now but will aim to get my reply reposted to your thread before the day is out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭Dirty Nails


    Plug the lights in to some other car. Easiest way to find out if it's your car or the lights.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭johndaman66


    quad_red, apologies my post got deleted earlier.

    I would say the first thing to check is that the wiring is intact into the by-pass relay from the towbar socket and from the tail light wiring loom. Assuming it's similar to the way my Avensis is wired this should be housed behind the carpet-cardboard type panelling on the side of the boot. Could be the panel on either side but most likely the passenger side as this is the side of the car the tail-light wiring loom will be coming down the car on. You will likely need to take the threshold over the boot opening off first and there may be a couple of luggage tie down hooks that may need to be taken off to get this off. Then there will likely be plastic poppers you will need to ease out to take that boot side panelling off.

    Check that the wires from the towbar socket are attached into the by-pass relay first. The wire will be coming in through the body of the car somewhere. There should be numbers versus colours wrote on the by-pass relay and these wires will likely be screwed into the relay. Just check that they are wired in correctly and the connections are good. On the wires coming from the tail lights to the other side of the by-pass relay they should be spliced into the taillight wires with either scotch locks or butt connectors, crimped and heat shrink over the top if done correctly. Check the connections are good by giving a moderately firm tug on each wire. If the connections are made with the wires wrapped around each other and some insulating tape on top as is often done you might want to make the connections good and proper. Check that both the wiring from the towbar socket and the wiring on the other side are earthed to the body of the car correctly.

    Assuming done correctly there should be a permanent live feed from the battery or fuse box to the by pass relay. As I understand this wire should be ran directly from the battery to the by-pass relay. In reality it is likely more often ran from the fuse box. I ran it from an unused but permanent live fuse in the fuse box below the glovebox in my Avensis. It would have being a nightmare to run the wire from the battery through the firewall of the car. I piggybacked off this fuse as such using the correct adaptor. The arrangement on mine is that there is a fuse in this adaptor inside the fusebox and this permanent live wire then is ran back to the by-pass realy - Its branched into two separate wires and each of these wires are in turn fused and they then feed separately into the by-pass relay. These fuses are again visible behind the side carpet-cardboarded area in my case. If you have a multimeter check you are getting between 12 and 13 volts on these wires somewhere you see access. If done correctly these should be permanent live (rather than ignition live) so you should get a reading without the ignition being on. If you are not getting a reading best thing to check first is if the fuses are blown. If they are replace them and recheck.

    If not getting a reading then next thing to check would be the other side of the permanent live going into the battery or fuse box as mentioned will most likely often be the case. Check if fused there and if the fuse is blown. If your happy your connection and fuse are good but getting no reading from the permanent live at the back of the car then you are likely checking your permanent live wire is good along the run of the car and not broken somewhere - pulling off door sill covers, bottom of the B pillar panel on the inside of the car...anything else that is covering the wire along its run.

    The above checks are based on the assumption that your towbar is wired in broadly in a similar manner to my own but there can likely be a few variations of how the job is done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,370 ✭✭✭✭elperello



    Try what dirty nails suggested if you have access to another car.

    Are you sure you have connected the plug properly?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭johndaman66


    Was providing my directions on the assumption that the lights in the trailer were known to be good but absolutely, it would be the first obvious check to make if not already verified.

    Post edited by johndaman66 on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,855 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Another Towbar wiring question...I've fitted a universal wiring kit to my car ( 214 MB E class 220, w212 ) Its a job that I've also done on an 2010 MB Eclass without any problem whatsoever. Simple enough in the 2010 MB, take a trigger wire from each of the functions in the rear lights, feed them into the universal relay, connect the wires from the relay to the 7 pin plug, and BINGO, everything work's no problem.

    Now for the 2014 MB Eclass. Everything is basically the same, trigger wires taken from indicators, no problem, works fine. Ditto Fog, Reversing light. Then comes the problem...the 2014 car has the brake light and the park light, feeding off a single wire..when the brake is pressed, it send a stronger pulse ( not sure what the technical term is...) to the LED light in the cluster, causing it to glow brighter, giving it the brake light effect.

    So I bought a so called "Smart" relay, where both the brake and park light are joined together, and connected to the Relay, which being Smart, is meant to differentiate between the two pulses, and send the correct voltage to both the brake and park lights on the socket. In theory anyway, but in reality, it does not work ( at least for me, and I've followed the instructions to the letter.) I just wondered if anyone else has had the same problem with these smart universal relays especially with MB, or indeed any make? Or any solutions, suggestions etc. as to a solution? Seems like I will have to take a brake light feed from the 3rd brake light in the rear window, and take the park light feed from the Nr plate light in the boot lid.



  • Posts: 468 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Actually it is pretty simple, only you must understand bit electronics. Typically they use PWM (pulse-width modulation). You need to read that signal and amplify to trailer. If trailer have regular bulbs then you have a trouble. Nothing too complicate, just need to use any MCU what reads the signal and turn on and off the relay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,855 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yes, I understand what you are saying ( very basically, I might add ) I use the existing vehicle cabling to the rear lights, Left turn, Right turn, ( it has other function's that I don't need EG: Fog, reversing light's etc ) and take the "trigger" feeds to the by-pass relay (TF2218/7-Way Smart Bypass Relay & Fitting Kit TF2218/7E1183MA and a standard trailer light board, standard non LED bulbs) and they work fine. And then we come to the Brake / Park light........and the problem!!!🤬 So ( again as I understand it ) the relay supplies 12v to the trailer light board ( standard 12v bulbs) and except for the Stop /Park, bulbs the rest work fine. Now again, as I understand it, the "Smart" relay is supposed recognize the difference between the pulses, and "switch" the current to the appropriate bulb in the trailer board......and it appears that this same universal relay works fine in other vehicles. but MB seems to be problematic. Seems to me that the only way for me to over come it is to take the trigger for the park light from the Nr plate light, and the trigger for the brake from the 3rd brake light in the rear window.

    BTW, should the relay not have its own MCU???

    Thanks and any advice would be very appreciated.

    Post edited by jmreire on


  • Posts: 468 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yes you need to make own MCU circuit by using any atmel, st or microchip MCU. Basically you read the signal and switch the relays accordingly. Relays get the dedicated fused power source, same the MCU. That way you do not overload the original circuit and car does not trigger fault. This is easy part but if your car is equipped with ADAS, sorry you must buy manufacturer parts only. It is possible to figure out how manufacturer was designed things but it is not worth it. Too high risk for safety.



  • Posts: 864 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It just appears that way when you're the first reply to any thread. It's not actually a duplicate post.

    Edit: In fact, it appears for every reply. If you reply to this, scroll up to the top and you'll see another edition of your reply as the second post in the thread. Refresh, and it disappears.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭johndaman66


    I know now as I seen it happening since. Issue was I didn't know at the time. Deleted what I assumed to be one of the posts that duplicated for whatever reason and low and behold it deleted the whole lot never to be seen again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,855 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The car is nearly 7 years old, and most of the information I can get re ADAS is about safety in the new 2020 S class( and it has a lot!!! 🙂) But at a guess, ( will have to do some more checking ) mine will have some ADAS, I'd say, even if not as many as the newer MBs.

    But another question for you ( sorry) the relay is powered by its own independent 12 V fused supply, OK? So all the links to the various light functions on the board are triggered by individual wires from the functions themselves, but power to the lightboard is supplied by the 12v connection supplying the relay. But there is only a problem when it comes to the Brake / Park feed to the relay? ( and actually, the brake lights work, but not the park lights ) So if I understand it right, it should be completely separate from the car electrics. Or is it the fact that the "heavier" pulse is causing the problem?? And yes, you are right about not triggering a fault. And neither does it show up on an iCarsoft scan, even as a stored fault. (And BTW, just in case it was a faulty relay, I put a new one in....no different result.)

    Thanks again, I appreciate your help.



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