Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

Cianan2 · 27-01-2021 5:29pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Just a couple of initial points

1. if the site is across a public road, and is 4 / 5 storeys high.. there may not actually be a case for loss of light. You can actually have measurements in accordance with BR 209 carried out by a competent professional to assess loss of light.

2. "overlooking bedrooms" is dependent on separation distances between offending windows. The vast majority of urban housing has opposite bedroom windows facing each other. In general 22 meters between windows is considered minimum, but that can be reduced depending on the situation.

3. Zoning. If this land is zoned for multi-storey residential development that the council, in principle, WANT multi-storey residential buildings there.

4. parking and cars. The requirement for parking depends on the area, proximity to public transport etc. 80 spaces for approx 50 apartments sounds about right. As part of the application the applicant will do/ should have to do a Traffic Impact Assessment which will assess the approaching and access roads to see if they can accommodate this proposed development. However again, if the council have zoned the land for housing, then in principle they havent considered any significant access issue. The application may include some access alteration as well.

if you feel strongly about the application and want to make a submission which will carry any weight, you should engage a planning professional. if your neighbours feel the same you can organise yourselves as a group to engage these services.

Thank you so much for the response - not wanting to give away too much information but from what I've heard a majority of the neighbourhood are all planning on objecting. The property is actually a pub at the moment which the owner has applied for the building for himself, nothing to do with the council looking to build apartments here.

sydthebeat · 27-01-2021 6:40pm

Cianan2 wrote: »

Thank you so much for the response - not wanting to give away too much information but from what I've heard a majority of the neighbourhood are all planning on objecting. The property is actually a pub at the moment which the owner has applied for the building for himself, nothing to do with the council looking to build apartments here.

im not saying the council are looking to build apartments... what im saying is that the land is most likely "zoned" for a particular use in the county / local area development plan.

if the land is "zoned" already to accept multi-storey residential... then thats what the council want to see there

cnocbui · 03-02-2021 2:29pm

What are you allowed to do to a house that was an agricultural building converted into a habitable state in 1960?

Can you pull the roof of and put a new one on, for instance, remove chimneys? Could you raise the wall height by a metre or so?

The house in question is the victim of a major government/public servant f*** up as it was not identified as existing when they drew up the maps for a SAC so planning permission most likely isn't ever going to be granted. It's likely the only private residence in the country included in a SAC.

sydthebeat · 03-02-2021 2:31pm

cnocbui wrote: »

What are you allowed to do to a house that was an agricultural building converted into a habitable state in 1960?

Can you pull the roof of and put a new one on, for instance, remove chimneys? Could you raise the wall height by a metre or so?

The house in question is the victim of a major government/public servant f*** up as it was not identified as existing when they drew up the maps for a SAC so planning permission most likely isn't ever going to be granted. It's likely the only private residence in the country included in a SAC.

is it still habitable?

cnocbui · 03-02-2021 2:38pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

is it still habitable?

Yes, in summer months, just don't ask about the septic system.

Tombo2001 · 09-02-2021 9:22pm

Hi folks

Neighbors have put up a planning application for an extension over garage.

Their house is at an angle to ours, to the rear - the extension will be circa 2.4m wide and 7m long, and they are extending the roof put over it also.

Its about 6 or 7 metres away from back our house, and at an angle as mentioned.

It will definitely affect our light; I'm not sure how much. In the summer, the sun would be coming from this direction around 11am.

We have a large side garden that wont be affected, a small rear yard that will lose light, and kitchen and upstairs bedroom will lose some light.

Against that, its obviously important to them. I dont know what sort of reaction there would be if we objected, our names might be dirt in the area, I dont know. This type of extension is common place locally, but the positioning of our houses specifically would be not the norm and as such other extensions would not have caused the same impact.

Any thoughts?

Also, are there any specialists that give a view on this sort of thing - whether the impact will be material or not....from POV of light for example.

Thanks.

em_cat · 09-02-2021 10:36pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Hi folks

Neighbors have put up a planning application for an extension over garage.

Their house is at an angle to ours, to the rear - the extension will be circa 2.4m wide and 7m long, and they are extending the roof put over it also.

Its about 6 or 7 metres away from back our house, and at an angle as mentioned.

It will definitely affect our light; I'm not sure how much. In the summer, the sun would be coming from this direction around 11am.

We have a large side garden that wont be affected, a small rear yard that will lose light, and kitchen and upstairs bedroom will lose some light.

Against that, its obviously important to them. I dont know what sort of reaction there would be if we objected, our names might be dirt in the area, I dont know. This type of extension is common place locally, but the positioning of our houses specifically would be not the norm and as such other extensions would not have caused the same impact.

Any thoughts?

Also, are there any specialists that give a view on this sort of thing - whether the impact will be material or not....from POV of light for example.

Thanks.

Just to point out, you’ve every right in the world to make an observation, this can be in favour or against or simply just an observation. There are of loads of planning consultants, architects or engineers who will write a third party observation for you. I can’t specifically recommend any, however they do exist. There is also the website SunCalc.net that can help you determine the possible impact.

hero001 · 02-03-2021 2:44pm

I have a planning related question which I would be greatful for feedback on.

I'm interested in buying a property on Co Kildare. The property sites on a 1 arce site within an urban area, and the houses sits on one side on the plot. Looking at the local area plan, it appears to me that although the part of the site that the house sits on is zoned residential, most of the gardan is zoned (F) open Space and Amenity.

If I buy the property, I was planning on added an extension and a garage, The extension would be in the area zoned residential, so this would be a standard planning application. However, I was planning on building a garage on part of the site zoned open space and amenity

Is this something that the planners would be open to a discussion on, or is it a no go area for them?

Reputable Rog · 02-03-2021 3:29pm

hero001 wrote: »

I have a planning related question which I would be greatful for feedback on.

I'm interested in buying a property on Co Kildare. The property sites on a 1 arce site within an urban area, and the houses sits on one side on the plot. Looking at the local area plan, it appears to me that although the part of the site that the house sits on is zoned residential, most of the gardan is zoned (F) open Space and Amenity.

If I buy the property, I was planning on added an extension and a garage, The extension would be in the area zoned residential, so this would be a standard planning application. However, I was planning on building a garage on part of the site zoned open space and amenity

Is this something that the planners would be open to a discussion on, or is it a no go area for them?

The designation could be a passive open space to protect a visual setting or else to discourage applications for housing developments on lands potentially not suitable.
In all likelihood there wouldn’t be a problem in principle, particularly if within the curtilage of a dwelling.

Sporkie · 26-03-2021 8:59pm

I have two separate questions regarding an ongoing attic conversion in Meath. We purchased this home recently, it's a bungalow with an incomplete attic conversion (floors, insulation and some plasterboard done). The previous owner was granted retention permission for the attic conversion a few years ago.

1. Do I need any further planning permission to complete the attic conversion, or can I hire someone in a few years and get it finished without worrying about it?

2. Currently there are a few small Velux on the rear roof. The house is rural and more than 11 metres from the property boundaries. Can I have Velux installed onto the front roof as well, or would that require planning permission even though it only overlooks a field? (the 11m is a window requirement for an 'extension above ground floor level' in a Meath planning leaflet)

Thanks in advance

muffler · 26-03-2021 10:05pm

Sporkie wrote: »

I have two separate questions regarding an ongoing attic conversion in Meath. We purchased this home recently, it's a bungalow with an incomplete attic conversion (floors, insulation and some plasterboard done). The previous owner was granted retention permission for the attic conversion a few years ago.

1. Do I need any further planning permission to complete the attic conversion, or can I hire someone in a few years and get it finished without worrying about it?

2. Currently there are a few small Velux on the rear roof. The house is rural and more than 11 metres from the property boundaries. Can I have Velux installed onto the front roof as well, or would that require planning permission even though it only overlooks a field? (the 11m is a window requirement for an 'extension above ground floor level' in a Meath planning leaflet)

Thanks in advance

1. Retention permission was granted yet the works werent complete. Thats all a little vague. However if works were substantially completed and retention granted then it should be fine.

2. Permission required.

mycro89 · 28-03-2021 4:34pm

So, someone here maybe able to help out, a family member has gone for planning and the local council has come back looking for further information regarding the design, as it is not sitting into the locality or along those lines. There is a house within 2km on the same road with a very similar design which was granted planning previously and other houses under construction of a similar nature, what can the applicant do to get their original design over the line?

Thanks in Advance.

muffler · 28-03-2021 8:24pm

mycro89 wrote: »

So, someone here maybe able to help out, a family member has gone for planning and the local council has come back looking for further information regarding the design, as it is not sitting into the locality or along those lines. There is a house within 2km on the same road with a very similar design which was granted planning previously and other houses under construction of a similar nature, what can the applicant do to get their original design over the line?

Thanks in Advance.

To establish precedent for that design they should get a map to show the sites in question and number / letter them accordingly and then cross reference that with photos or planning reference numbers and then submit. Their architect / engineer / planning agent should advise them.

da4i's · 29-03-2021 8:33pm

Has anyone heard of 'rural needs' in Meath?

I applied for pre-planning and local needs in my local area as I have an interest in a site that is 2.5km away from my family home. I called a councilor after sending in my local needs application to the council to look for advice on what to do next and I was told I won't get permission because I live in the urban area of the town and the site is on the rural side. Does this seem realistic considering the site is 2.5km away from my family home, which is my current address, and I am a first time buyer? I've been living in this area for just under 25 years. Any advice is appreciated.

sydthebeat · 29-03-2021 9:09pm

da4i's wrote: »

Has anyone heard of 'rural needs' in Meath?

I applied for pre-planning and local needs in my local area as I have an interest in a site that is 2.5km away from my family home. I called a councilor after sending in my local needs application to the council to look for advice on what to do next and I was told I won't get permission because I live in the urban area of the town and the site is on the rural side. Does this seem realistic considering the site is 2.5km away from my family home, which is my current address, and I am a first time buyer? I've been living in this area for just under 25 years. Any advice is appreciated.

You will only get permission in an area where "rural need " applies, if you are from the local RURAL area.

Being from a town or village does not constitute a "rural" area

da4i's · 29-03-2021 9:54pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

You will only get permission in an area where "rural need " applies, if you are from the local RURAL area.

Being from a town or village does not constitute a "rural" area

Thanks for the response.

Have you any idea where I can find out more information about 'rural needs' vs 'local needs' and what the differences are? Even the Meath Co Co website titles the application form 'Local Needs Form - Rural Housing Planning Applications' in the download section of the 'How to Apply for Planning Permission' download section - as if they are the same thing. It's extremely confusing and I cannot find any information about 'rural needs' - only local.

sydthebeat · 29-03-2021 10:05pm

https://assets.gov.ie/111147/d5cacfab-e1ba-43be-b3d2-f0f539a4e87e.pdf

Local need and rural need are the same thing

cnocbui · 30-03-2021 12:21pm

Has anyone taken this local needs BS discrimination to the European court yet? I can't imagine it's not in breach of the right to live and work aspects of the Eu treaty. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/locals-only-planning-rule-illegal-and-discriminatory-says-eu-26300271.html

da4i's · 30-03-2021 12:28pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Has anyone taken this local needs BS discrimination to the European court yet? I can't imagine it's not in breach of the right to live and work aspects of the Eu treaty.

Apparently in Meath it won't make a difference if it changes anyway. There's talk of these 'node' areas being set up for people to build houses on and you won't be able to build anywhere else. So they might remove the local needs requirement, but there just won't be any land. Building your own property is going to be a thing of the past unless you own 15 acres or more and work on the land

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2020/12/16/cllrs-fear-15-acre-rule-is-likely-to-be-introduced-despite-their-objections/

sydthebeat · 30-03-2021 12:49pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Has anyone taken this local needs BS discrimination to the European court yet? I can't imagine it's not in breach of the right to live and work aspects of the Eu treaty. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/locals-only-planning-rule-illegal-and-discriminatory-says-eu-26300271.html

the fall out from no 'local need' restriction will be practical blanket bans for ALL... so be careful what you wish for

cnocbui · 30-03-2021 12:56pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

the fall out from no 'local need' restriction will be practical blanket bans for ALL... so be careful what you wish for

Fine by me. Anything that gums up the releaase valve on the pressure cooker/planning laws causing a big explosion is a good thing.

arctictree · 03-04-2021 5:47pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Has anyone taken this local needs BS discrimination to the European court yet? I can't imagine it's not in breach of the right to live and work aspects of the Eu treaty. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/locals-only-planning-rule-illegal-and-discriminatory-says-eu-26300271.html

This has been going on for decades. Politicians have no will to tackle it as any change would just result in a total ban for local needs building.

cnocbui · 04-04-2021 1:50pm

arctictree wrote: »

This has been going on for decades. Politicians have no will to tackle it as any change would just result in a total ban for local needs building.

Looks like some push back against idealogue driven planning at last: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/an-assault-on-rural-democracy-tddenouncesnew-planning-regulator-for-marxist-and-stalinist-policies-40268698.html

PMBC · 19-07-2021 8:22pm

First floor rear extension of existing dormer. Side of dormer extension will be over end of house which is 1.4 - 1.5 m from boundary. Needs planning permission?

BryanF · 29-07-2021 9:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117634558#Comment_117634558

Yes

PMBC · 31-07-2021 3:48pm

Thanks Bryan F. I suppose the trick is to have the extension external wall start at 2 m from the boundary. Is it reasonable to assume the boundary is boundary wall centre line?

ArtieBucco · 20-08-2021 6:51pm

Pre-planning Consultation - Letter of consent

Hi all, sorry if this is the wrong place to post. Recently i helped a friend submit a pre-planning consultation application for an extension. Enclosed with the application was a letter of consent from his parent's. It has come to my understanding that my friend actually owns the house in question and therefore I was wondering will this be an issue when we submit a full application? Would it be considered fraudulent?

Cheers

sydthebeat · 20-08-2021 8:37pm

Not at all.

Sure the house could have been signed over in the time between the pre planning and application.

Just put the client down as the owner in the application

purple hands · 30-09-2021 9:07am

Looking for some advice on requesting a declaration for an exempted development

https://www.dublincity.ie/residential/planning/planning-applications/find-planning-application/exempt-development/exempted-development-section-5

We have an opinion of compliance stating that a masonry shed at the back of our property (about 10m2) is considered an exempted development from when we bought the house. The possible application now for a section 5 declaration would relate to renovations to turn it into a garden room that would not be considered habitable space, idea would be to use it as an office or playroom. I'm in discussions with a builder and would rely on him to provide a description of the works for the application form. I have OSI planning pack maps and the rest of the application looks relatively straightforward. Given the presumed limited nature of the works, I would hope to avoid the need for drawings tbh but open to correction!

I guess I'm wondering if others have submitted this type of application themselves or is it advisable to hire an architect or other professional to assist?

muffler · 30-09-2021 9:23am

Is the application for permission or a Section 5 declaration?

purple hands · 30-09-2021 10:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958028#Comment_117958028

A section 5 declaration, have edited OP

sydthebeat · 30-09-2021 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957959#Comment_117957959

you will need drawings, site location map etc (pretty much everything youd need for a planning application. i would also include photos as well)

the section 5 will probably take 8 weeks to come back.

why cant you simply get an architect to determine if what you propose is exempt, and provide a cert to state as much on completion?

purple hands · 30-09-2021 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958462#Comment_117958462

Thanks very much for the reply.

I suppose the section 5 declaration was considered to be more official perhaps.

Had not considered what you have proposed with the architect, sounds like a good idea. Any idea of costs for that? I ask because we were put off the architect route following some contact with a design-build company that quoted us 4.5k for drawings etc.. Maybe I'm naïve and that's just the going rate, but seemed excessive.

muffler · 30-09-2021 12:59pm

You can put the S5 application together yourself if you feel confident enough to do so. Alternatively follow the advice given by sydthebeat.

4.5k is a rip off.

onrail · 18-10-2021 10:56am

For one reason or another, I need to get a planning application for a one-off build lodged as soon as possible.

Rather than submitting for outline PP, the architect/agent has suggested that we submit an application based on an 'off the shelf' plan which is roughly in line with our eventual desired house, and subsequently apply for a change or retention with our final desired plans.

Is this a risky strategy? I definitely don't want to be left with planning for a house I'm not happy with!

muffler · 18-10-2021 2:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035593#Comment_118035593

If its urgent and the design is reasonably close to your preferred design then fire away. If all goes well and you get permission then you can apply for a change of house type later. Shouldn't really be an issue.

sydthebeat · 22-10-2021 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035593#Comment_118035593

no not risky at all.

if you get planning then you can change the design within reason (assuming "within reason" is close to what you already have permission for)

Dinzee Conlee · 22-10-2021 7:39pm

Hello,

Not sure this is the right place for this, but I’ll throw it out there anyways

We have the remains of an old cottage in some woodland on our farm. Now, when I say remains - I mean one gable wall, barely standing…

It can be seen on old ordinance survey maps that there was a cottage there long ago, but I don’t know if this matters really…

What would be the likelihood of getting planning permission to have it rebuilt?

This would be a project as much as anything, and would probably end up being rented out whenever it got finished.

I am based in Cork, if that matters?

Thanks in advance folks,

Dinzee…

onrail · 24-10-2021 8:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118037005#Comment_118037005

Thanks. When you say 'reasonably close' I take it ridge height and square footage would be the main concerns?

muffler · 24-10-2021 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065232#Comment_118065232

They would indeed.

You also need to consider the type of house ... bungalow, dormer, 1.5 storey, 2 storey. Whatever style you select now would need to reflect your long term requirement.

db · 24-10-2021 6:53pm

It depends on whether you already own the door or not. If you do you can get straight into the planning process. If you don't own the site you will have to come to an agreement with the owner to buy it and sign contracts subject to planning.

Just because there is already a ruin on the site does not mean you will automatically get permission to build. There are many reasons an application might fall and local needs may still apply. If you are subject to local needs you will not be able to sell or rent the house for up to 7 years.

When you are ready to start the planning process find an architect, architectural technician out engineer to design the house and help you with the planning application.

Dinzee Conlee · 24-10-2021 9:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118068314#Comment_118068314

Thanks DB… (I assume you were replying to my post)

I own the site. I have an existing house on the farm, so it wouldn’t be for me to live in. I wouldn’t be able to claim local needs - it would be for rental, not sure how hot the planning department would be with that?

Ah, it’s just to see if we could do something with the site really…

Hatch1989 · 25-10-2021 2:44pm

Hi, looking for some advice.

Our plans have been submitted to council and after 8 weeks They came back for further information, this has also been submitted.

On the plans we have included quite a lot of stone on the front of the house - but not the porch and sunroom.

However, now we think it is too much and would like to change to just having stone on the porch and sun room rather than the full front.

Would this be a difficult amendment to make? Will we have to start again with the original submission to the council? Appreciate any advice on this.

muffler · 25-10-2021 3:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071018#Comment_118071018

Very hard to say as a lot of these things are down to the opinion of a particular planner in a particular local authority area. Some LA's may allow you to make a written application for a minor change after PP has been granted while others will insist you reapply for PP for elevational changes.

Pity you didn't think of this before the FI request was responded to as it may have been easier dealt with. Best advice I can give you is ring the planner and discuss your options. If they haven't reached a decision yet then they might be prepared to accept the changes but getting your architect to submit drawings at short notice wont be easy. There is always the option of requesting a deferral on the decision date to allow for revised drawings to be submitted but again that's all dependent on the status of your current application.

Hatch1989 · 26-10-2021 8:21am

Thanks for the reply.

Also, if you have stone on your plans is it a requirement that the stone be included immediately as house is being built?

Is it a requirement at all if you change your mind and would prefer bare walls?

I was of the understand if stone was in your plan you Didny necessary need to include it when building. But if you didn’t have it on the plan at the start you didn’t have the option to do it at all

muffler · 26-10-2021 11:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073364#Comment_118073364

Strictly speaking you have to build in accordance with the plans submitted for PP. In the past some "supervising" professionals would have issued the usual certs of compliance without the stone but speaking from personal experience I had one job where I had signed off on only for the lender (through their inspector) to declare that it wasn't complete as a porch and sun room didn't have the stone finish that had been indicated on the plans. So you need to watch that angle if you have a mortgage.

As I posted previously talk to the planner to determine what they will accept and when. In the current climate everything has to be pretty much done by the book.

Callan · 28-10-2021 7:52am

I am the owner of a mid terrace house. My next-door neighbour is currently having an extension built at the back of his house. This extension will have a flat roof.

Yesterday, he informed me that he plans on using this flat roof as a terrace/deck. To me this is completely unacceptable, it would be looking directly into one of our bedrooms, sitting room and back garden.

He doesn’t have planning permission. I have checked the planning rules which state that to be exempt from the requirement to obtain planning permission “Any extension above ground floor level is at least two meters from any boundaries”. I assume this proposed terrace will be considered above ground floor.

I have told him he will need to seek planning permission for a terrace/deck and that I would object to it.

Can anyone one confirm if this needs planning permission? What is considered above ground floor?

I also have concerns about the build quality of the extension, an RSJ has been installed under a loose brick on both sides. I told my neighbour he should get an architect or building surveyor to ensure the building is safe.

Thanks

muffler · 28-10-2021 8:36am

The single storey extension is most likely exempt but if he proposes to use the roof as a balcony then that's a different story.

What you see in the photo looks like a padstone but you shouldn't be concerning yourself with those matters as I don't really see how any possible future failings would impact your property.

mike_2009 · 15-11-2021 3:04pm

I have planning for a new house adjacent to where I live and I need to build a new driveway before splitting the site. There is a tree in the front of the property that the grant of planning permission mandates that I protect above and below ground from the works. The trunk is within 1 meter of the new driveway and services, water main etc. I don't understand how I can begin construction without damaging the roots. Plus the tree will be impacted by any large plant (crane/cement trunk etc) above ground to gain access to the site. This is all ahead of me next year....

Is it possible to protect a tree in the way they have stated?

If I get a letter from a tree expert stating the tree can't be protected in this way and would be a danger how do I broach this with the planners without having to reapply for planning all over again? Thanks!

hardybuck · 07-12-2021 12:38pm

Feedback welcome regarding some strange carry on in our area.

An auld git in our area has made an observation regarding an application from his neighbour which he strongly opposes. He's gone on a big rant at the Council in his observation, and criticised some recent decisions in the surrounding area. In doing so he's taken pictures of different houses in the area which he likes and doesn't like, and provided his unique commentary on same.

My home was one of the ones included in the observation. While I found it pretty amusing, I'm not particularly comfortable with my home being included in a rant in a publicly available document which will be available online into the future.

Can I ask the Council to edit the publicly available document, or is this something I'll need to suck up?

Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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