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Independent ie article! Madness if you drive a ten year old plus car !

135

Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My car is well over a decade old and I hopefully will be able to drive it for many more years



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why wouldn't you ?

    All it requires is maintenance and fuel. As long as the body is fine it will drive forever, engine dies, get one from a scrap yard or have old one rebuild. All you're really paying then if fuel and maintenance, beats my pcp on new car lol. But then again my maintenance and fuel costs are extremely low.

    In EV it costs around 8.8 cent at current night rate electricity costs per 5.5 Kms or more, depending on efficiency or it costs me nothing per km depending on the amount of free work juice I get, currently this week my commute from Blanch to Carlow has cost me nothing, I'm charged to 100% so tomorrows commute will cost me nothing.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The facts remain that we are clueless as to what the climate was like in any particular centaury

    Christ, you really are going all in with setting out to further demonstrate your ignorance.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer



    Cant agree more with this post.

    While I love my classics I doubt Id still be here if it wasnt for the collision avoidance system in a New civic that saved my ass coming off the m50 on to the n4.

    Some idiot pulled across 4 lanes of traffic to make the exit and then decided to stand on the brakes a few metres in front of me.


    If I was in a car without these systems theres no way I would have been able to brake in time and would have ended up a statistic.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    we are clueless as to what the climate was like in any particular centaury

    you OK hun?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Have to agree with this. Climate change is as real as the fact it gets dark in the evenings and bright in the mornings. It's ridiculous to claim otherwise.

    CO2 caused by driving cars, making them, travelling, in short every thing we do as a society is contributing to the problem. In short, to have the sort of lifestyles we take for granted in a country as well off as ours, means we're going to be polluting. And doing lots of it. Our need to replace things that are working away perfectly fine, but seem 'old tech', our desires to travel abroad, stay warm, whatever it is we want to do that means living, is all part of it.

    I certainly don't agree that EVs are the solution, but I do agree that cars, and transport in general, is a significant contributor to the climate crisis.

    The issue with petrol and diesel is the liquid we use to power them, the sooner synthetics can take off and be scaled up to replace fossil fuels, the better for the planet and society as a whole, not to mention petrolheads right around the globe. No need to have expensive, heavy and soul destroying EVs, and we can enjoy combustion engined cars genuinely guilt free once more. The other advantage of synthetic fuels is as well as reducing CO2 emissions to almost net zero is that other types of pollution from petrol and diesel, like carbon monoxide, particulates, etc is also significantly reduced - and we might even squeeze a few more horses out of our engines to boot. What's not to like about all of that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭Pekarirska


    ...



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    EV's will make a difference. They're significantly less polluting locally and if and I say if we get our ducks in a row regarding renewable energy sources then they'll be even less polluting. The wider problem is the consumerist churn based on unsustainable economic models and like Pek's pic above planned obsolesence. This isn't just cars it's damned near everything around us. We want it new, now and throwaway when the dopamine hit wears off and a new dopamine thrill comes along. Rinse and repeat. We've become an ever faster and wider pipeline between factory and landfill while we think and are told we're doing our bit with different coloured wheelie bins. We're not. Even though "green" awareness has never been so high we're significantly more individually polluting than our forebears of even two generations ago. Plugging our cars in overnight rather than filling them with dinosaur juice will barely scratch that surface, or itch.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭mankteln


    Does the trend in that graph not show an increase lad?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 138 ✭✭Turbolounge


    You sure about that? In the late 70s the average number of road fatalities was around 600 per year. In the late 90s it was around 450 per year. In the last few years it has been hovering around 140-150. Anyone with half a brain can recognise the number one factor in reducing deaths was due to improvements in car safety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭standardg60


    I laughed at that new/3 yr old too, SIMI basically wrote that article themselves.

    Bugs me that their name suggests they're some sort of NGO body concerned with all aspects of car based transport, when in fact they're just a car sales lobby group, many members of whom would happily sell you a 10 yr old car if they were making a profit



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    You will definitely see 10 + year old cars for sale in SIMI members garages.

    Most of the bigger main dealer members won't sell a car of that age and they sell them off in the trade.

    By the way, in fairness to Eddie Cunningham he never said "Madness if you drive a ten year old plus car" in that article.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    Ah here, there's no way you could know that, it could be totally rust free and running well. Age is no barometer of a car's general condition or road worthiness. Bit clueless like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    About the lower death rates on roads Covid had a bearing as many were working from home.

    I hope you guys dont mind me driving my 1989 around as its my second car comfy slow and gets me to a to B and needs to get ready for NCT again and has outlasted many younger cars that were scrapped.

    Might look like a crap car but even the Nct laughs when it goes back in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭standardg60




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    Aye Mitsubishi and a jap import just to make it harder to source parts for.

    Had to get rear shoes and cylinders done as every time handbrake was let off i would get a cracking sound.

    Parts were correct and fitted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,375 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Utter tosh from Cunningham.

    The most environmentally friendly car is the one that survives the longest, because there is no environmental positive to building new cars. Even if they ran on fresh air, they all consume raw materials and energy simply to exist.

    If a car is maintained and is safe and meets emissions tests, it can be any age at all.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Years of salt and grime would suggest otherwise. Unless the undercarriage is washed regularly and car stored indoors, there's rust.


    Are people who run old cars checking the condition of the rear axle using xray testing?


    Rear axles are box steel. They rust eventually, from the inside, and will snap. I've seen it happen.

    Fair play to anyone bombing it on an old car, I wouldn't..



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  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Trend, yes but it's a trend since 1979 , but they always emphasise about how warm this year was when in fact it's as warm as it was back around 2003, you see a heat record by 0.001 of a degree for an hour from a land based record is not really " my opinion" of a worthy record in fairness it just creates sensational headlines they the media can't let go of for every 30 min news broadcast. Land based records are not 100% reliable and can be manipulated and there have been records altered and adjusted where data has been lost or due to failed equipment. One such record was in Africa some years ago and the WMO decided to wipe it from the books to make Death valley the warmest place on earth.

    Saying 2021 broke records is a lie and the satellite data shows this, it proves this year was not the warmest on record.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭kirving


    Exactly, the newer car isn't really a huge amount safer than an old one when you actually hit a tree, but it much less likely to hit the tree in the first place. And EuroNCAP are right to be assessing this as part of the 5* rating.

    Take the E-Class for example. The 2009 model I don't think had a radar (as standard). By the time I had my 2013, it's had radar collision warning as standard, but I still had to hit the brake pedal before it would give full assistance. By 2016, camera/radar with full auto brake were all but standard, as were much better lights.

    If you didn't know any better, you'd look at the 2009 and 2016 model and think you would be as safe in both, which is a reasonable conclusion. But add in the active safety systems and it's a much better place to be.

    The 2013 that I had, would set your seats to a preferred position for a crash, pre-load the seatbelts, and close the windows if you braked too hard. On a motoring forum where many posters may choose higher specced, older cars with that kind of tech installed ahead of the curve, I can see why many people are still skeptical of being guilted into newer, "safer" cars (by the Indo, not you) when theirs already have that tech.



  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭mankteln


    What else are you looking for from a graph apart from a trend? It's what they show. And why wouldn't it be a trend from 1979? If the graph went further back to include pre-industrialisation period it'd be an even more pronounced trend. I find it weird that you've chosen to use a graph that shows increase in global temperature to somehow back up that there's no increase. Do you know how to read a graph?



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We were told this year was the warmest on record, it's not. They said the same last year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Lads there is definitely some truth to newer being g more than likely safer. But the environmental argument is a joke for the most part... Allowing four year old cars, with the two biggest dangers of brakes and tyres going unchecked, is another farce...



  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭mankteln


    Where are you getting your info from that it's not? The graph you put up as your supporting evidence certainly makes it look that there's been an increase.



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  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Increase sure, but doesn't tell us what caused it lol. All Natural. Some day it will go in the opposite direction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    It's a bit like Groundhog Day when climate change sceptics pop up on random threads.



  • Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭mankteln


    He's a mad lad alright lol, picked the right username.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Mine's front wheel drive so no rear axle, double wishbone setup all around so no axles to speak of anywhere. And I don't need xrays to test the box sections on the car. I've one of those fibre optic probe thingies I got years ago and yep I've had a look in the various box sections on the car. Tip top. Now to be fair after it came into the country 16 years ago and knowing 90's Japanese cars while near bulletproof mechanically can be divils for the tin worm I coated the box sections* in anti rust wax, first waxoyl which is a pain in the arse, then bilt hamber goo which isn't, something I check and top up yearly(takes way less than an hour). Do that and car bodies can last for damn near ever. Back in the day the oul anti rust wax was a thing some people did, even some garages offered it as a service and decades later the cars that got it are significantly more rust free than those who didn't. It's also better in many ways to have a car outside, indoor storage unless done right can lead to worst rust over time, especially in cars that are less used. Mine's a daily driver so gets the wind up its skirts on the regular which dries things out.




    *Sills, the frame, bottom of doors and wings, leading edges of bonnet, boot, inner wheelarches, obvious seams and so forth.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, you obviously know what to check and how to properly manage rust.

    Your post confirms my point though. What you do is what everyone should be doing but don't. Therefore a lot of old cars on the road are death traps. An Nct cert does not guarantee that the car will not fall apart.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,849 ✭✭✭Brian Scan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    Climate by its very definition always changes.

    Climate is a measure of the average weather patterns over a certain time frame. Climate has always changed, and will continue to do so.

    We experienced a mini ice age of sorts in this part of the world from the 16th to 19th centuries. There are many varying reasons for causing climate change.

    The current debate obviously is focusing on the link behind increased CO2 in the atmosphere being caused by humans and thus causing man made climate change. Are the current changes being driven by our behavior? Most of the evidence would point to this, but there may also be some natural climate change built in as as happened many times before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭lomb


    New cars since 2017 or 18 are much better in offset frontal collisions. Go onto YouTube and see American Insurance institute testing for offset frontal. It's a real shame the passive safety didn't improve before the crappy unreliable long term tech came along though..In 10 years likely alot of 10 or 12 year old cars will be scrap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Exactly. I bought a 2006 Primera P12 1.6 in early summer as a backup car. Did no major checks apart from visual and critically assess seller. Put car through NCT last week. Straight through!

    Eddie is clearly a vapid Muppet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    Tjeyre talking about internal airbags now, inside the cranium, to prevent the jarring of the brain on impact, particularly as we age.


    Looks like Eddie had the 100% cavity prototype fitted.



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Old VS Newer, some scary stuff!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Casati


    The safety argument is a valid one - it appears that NCAP also agree with the zero or one star for a 2001 Laguna II being tested today such is the pace with how the test standards and the safety offered by the latest 5 star cars has moved on. That video showing old versus new is well worth a look. Can’t believe they wrote off a beautiful Bel Air mind you

    https://www.topgear.com/car-news/crash/why-your-old-five-star-ncap-car-isnt-safe-you-think-it?amp=1

    I’ve a 2019 Volvo with all these fancy radar+ driving aids and although I didn’t buy it on safety grounds alone I’m a firm convert and would hate to buy and other car without auto brake, acc and auto LED headlights - Ie all features designed to avoid accidents, plus looking at the video of my car tested by NCAP does reassure me that it will stand up well compared to most other older cars. It is however a lot of money to buy a car like mine or indeed any new 5 star car and loads of ten+ year old cars provide excellent service.

    That article isn’t well written but what do you expect with the Indo! Zero research or effort is par for the course but not just in the motoring section.

    Im not sure I but the CO2 argument - I say forget about the stated CO2 figs as they keep changing the test and look at actual fuel consumption. I often saw 65mpg out of a 2004 Cordoba 1.9 TDI and I doubt a 2021 Leon can beat that today. I’d a friend who saw 70mpg out of similar age Megane 1.5 but the new ones today use that same basic engine but are much heavier so although are good on juice they aren’t as good as many 15 year old well serviced Meganes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,375 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Try a 1985 Mercedes 500SEL against a 2021 Fiesta and see who looks in better shape after.



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Have you been frozen since the 70s, rear axel is multiple links bolted at the front and middle,have you ever seen the underside of a Car?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    There's something about weather stations ,like a third less than there used to be as well as no data from whole regions



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well, our own Kilkenny Met Eireann station is gone after I don't remember how many years so for instance if a claimed record is Broken at Oak Park, could it mean that it wouldn't have been broken if the Kilkenny station still existed ? Perhaps Kilkenny record would have been higher ? There's evidence of this all over the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    How about a W140 (1991 design) hitting an E12 Corolla (2001 design). Huge amount of detailed info and images at the below link, both cars had serious damage to the passenger compartments but the Merc driver got out with moderate injuires wheras the Corolla driver died in hospital from a chest injury and had a bad leg injury.

    https://crashviewer.nhtsa.dot.gov/nass-cds/CaseForm.aspx?xsl=main.xsl&CaseID=195009008

    A W140 is newer, safer and heavier than a W126 and a 2021 Fiesta would also be safer and stronger (and more aggressive to its "opponent") than an E12 Corolla.

    W126 and 2021 Fiesta hitting each other head on, yeah. I'd pick the Fiesta. Single vehicle collision or side impact or rollover I 'd definitely pick the Fiesta.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Everything the early 90s up has ABS, airbags,seat belt tensioner and side impact protection. Current cars are usually based on earlier models so beneath the new panels lies a 20 year old design, Independent will take money from any source so not an honest broker here



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    The Family business dealt with a consumer durable. The Customers had no idea how old their machines were. They wouldn't believe you when you told them their machine was over 20 years old and point at the year of build on the serial number plate or elsewhere on the machine.

    If you didn't have numberplates on cars disclosing the year of registration they wouldn't be in such a hurry to replace them.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    yeah, SIMI were quick to argue that reg plates would split to 131 and 132 based under the cover of the superstition argument. but it just shows how important the date of the car is to people. i guess it's kinda like the difference between having the LX and the GLX back in the 80s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Apparently Gormley and the Greens wanted the year taken off plates back in 2008, they were ignored, pity people didn't keep ignoring them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,478 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    That generation Fiesta was a revamp of a 1989 model, there were big advances made in body structures towards the latter end of the 00s, the progress didn’t continue at the same rate though.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 526 ✭✭✭chrisd2019


    Motoring porn is like property porn in the old world of newspapers.

    Only reason for such articles is to stimulate revenue from advertisers.

    October and the new year sales have to be generated somehow.

    Drive a 2007 car myself, own it since 2011 and it has never failed me yet when I turn the key it starts !

    Certainly not going to buy a new less reliable car because some fellow wrote this rubbish.

    Regarding the environment am sure my old car is less of a stress on the planet than some shiny new semiconductor filled computer controlled temperamental, metal and plastic box made on the other side of the world !



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