Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

modern political and economic ideologies depict that taxation is reduced on wealth, and moved more so towards labour and consumption, this is exactly what we have now, this is one of the main reasons why we have highly dysfunctional housing markets, this is why we have high levels of dereliction, land hoarding etc etc etc. this approach to politics and economics is most common across the world, especially in the eu, hence our situation....

once again, private debts are creating the bulk of our problems globally, as is the case here in ireland, we keep defaulting to a primarily credit fueled economy, which tends to move towards asset markets such as property and land, creating whats called a fire sector lead and dictated economy..... we have to stop this madness, its destroying our housing markets

true, but we re not fully utilizing this approach, to share wealth amongst all

Ireland private household debt is not that high anymore. It's the Public one that is high.

Do you think it would be realistic that Ireland in all the wealth that was created in the last 30 years that we could have a wealth fund of 250billion as opposed to a debt of a similar amount.

Would it be fair to say the reason we don't, can almost entirely be down to runaway property prices.

Every year for the last 6 years we have had extra billions in unexpected revenues from corporation taxes. That could easily have been used to build adequate housing where its needed at Reasnoble cost. This benefits the companies that generated the revenue, the workers, the economy and the small business that service it all. All easily done with careful management and generating an income for the state

Instead it was all farmed out to foreign pension/investment funds with their returns tax free and in many cases leaving the country. 30% + of peoples income leaving the country in rent and policies that continually increase that figure.

I agree that there is a risk that we could be moving to boom and bust cycle again. But there is as well a good chance that LTI limit will help to stabilize price in near future. Double digit price increase is not healthy or sustainable for longer term.

Irish times article ‘Ireland has 10th highest rate of vacant homes in the world study finds’ Note that this is a Uk study.... if only our own government could carry out such studies 🤔

“Ireland was deemed to have a homeless population of 5,873 at the time of the analysis, meaning that just 3.2 per cent of its empty homes would be needed to house every homeless person in the country.”

“The Government has mooted the idea of introducing a vacant property tax but said it requires time to collect data on vacancy levels. The vacancy rate of a state’s housing stock is difficult to determine as homes may be temporarily vacant for a number of reasons.”

If they even tried to start closing the net they would make instant progress...

It all comes down to if you want to live in a modern urban high population city you have to be willing to pay for it. Many are unwilling to accept that. They want there cake and to eat it.

I think we are firmly in the boom bust cycle.

Bank of Mum and Dad, ftb grants plus shared equity chasing investment funds and ill thought out social housing funding with limitless cash and pay sweet f_all tax.

Looks like mania

We are heading for a brick wall at increasing velocity

ah guessing game in regards correction or not, stimulus is needed now and big time, but it needs to be used correctly, and not further inflating asset prices

And if you're not willing to pay for it then go live elsewhere presumably?

That's a point of view that has politically dominated the last forty years in the western world and the current housing market is a byproduct of that. But I'd predict that we've reached the beginning of the end of this type world view.

Long term, these house prices won't be sustained. That's small comfort for anyone who needs to buy now though.

I got called by work over the weekend and had to work all night Saturday night.

I get to keep less than half of what I earned. The tax man takes the rest.

I was the only idiot who left their phone on so they got me this time. Wont happen again.

I think anyone buying is winning, you have to have a look at pre 08 just before the bubble burst is a person better off having bought at the peak or having waited and find the banks no longer lending so they could not get a mortgage in the years after 08. The question is who is in a better position - a renter who's rent will be going up by the rate of inflation or a buyer who will not see their mortgage go up by much (fixed term over 10 years now available) Remember and I have said this till I am blue in the face Ireland do not do family home repossessions so who is in the more secure position someone who has stretched themselves and bought or someone who could be left waiting for a crash that may never come and paying rent in the mean time.

It also begs the question who is being more financially prudent those waiting and renting with inflation increases or those who took the plunge bought and they know the costs for the next 10 years regardless or inflation or interest rate rises and knowing that no one will come knocking on the door if they fall into difficulty to try and kick them out of the house.

I think the person buying is being more financially responsible. But that is just my opinion.

Your post start with to high confidence in things where people constantly fail with their forecast. You literally don't know if we are in a bubble.

If you are paying €100k over the asking price to get a house at all costs then its better to rent IMHO but that depends on location, plenty of terrible stories from the last housing bubble of people basically having to forget about ever having a family because they had been 10 years in 100k of negative equity on their 1 bed apt, cant sell, cant make enough renting it to buy another property and even worse what that did to their mental health.

Plenty of repossessed homes going for auction at the moment also, take a look at Bid X1, the 2008 crash caught a lot of people who handed the keys to their 300k houses back, house sold by bank at auction for 200k and they still had 100k mortgage to pay with no home.

So they handed the keys back I tell you any family who puts up any kind of fight to the bank looking to take back the family home will have a very difficult time getting that family out.