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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,631 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    That's Switzerland, not Ireland.

    I've been all over Switzerland on the bike. Their way of living is VERY different to ours, dictated primarily by the terrain they're living in (Mountains)

    In Ireland, the needs of people in Cities/Rural is nearly the same, the issue is rural people have to travel further to get those services, but will still travel to get them.


    Fixing is our Carbon Footprint is easy, it's actually a piece of p!$$ to do but no government wants to do it.

    It probably wouldn't cost that mush either.

    For starters, all new house builds need one of the Roof sides south facing and covered in solar. That should really have been made regulation by now. It would be significantly cheaper to do it in bulk during the build of the house rather than retro fitting it after. Solar panels themselves are cheap

    The ESB needs to get the finger out and get the cables out charging stations in forecourts, my understanding is All the petrol stations are ready to go as regards, electric charging stations, they're just waiting on cables from the grid.

    Make public transport free.

    Change the motortax on private vehicles to a combination of vehicle weight/mileage. A 101 - 110 band vehicle covering 30,000 miles P/A creates more CO2 than a 141 - 155 band vehicle doing 10,000 miles P/A. Yet the difference in tax is 190 vs 400... it makes literally no sense.

    Interconnect cable to France for Nuclear power. It would actually be cheaper to buy Electricity generated from Nuclear material from our neighbors than burning fossil fuels ourselves going forward.

    Build more Pumped-storage hydroelectricity (Turlough Hill) there were plans to build heaps of these around Ireland in the 60's / 70's.


    We've a bunch of lazy f**K civil servants and quangos looking for a slice of the pie on any public development. That, in my mind is the main reason the government is hesitant to make any changes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,891 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    That is true.

    I know urban dwellers who cycle everywhere or use public transport, don't own a car and never fly. They grow their own food in an allotment and purchase ethically as far as possible.

    On the other hand I know urban dwellers who drive a Range Rover are regular flyers to a holiday home and for city weekends. They waste more food than would sustain an extra person in the house and are heavy on the credit card at high end stores.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Shouldnt be too long now so til we have good public transport for all. Metro North must be nearly there. Theyve been at it so long now whats another decade or two.



  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    More than a few yummy mummies driving their darling child in a new SUV past 4 local schools to the prestigious academy on the other side of the city too.

    Actually the difference in morning traffic between summer holidays and school time is so crazy it makes me wonder if we have any school buses at all!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The difference in morning traffic between summer holidays and school time just goes to show that if we actually built safe, segregated cycling infrastructure, even if it somewhat limits road space for cars, that traffic overall might improve drastically.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    YEs. True. The traffic difference in Dublin between term time and school holidays tells us all that urban dwellers are no taking the fucin bus. Even if there is a bus that goes where they need to go without going an hour out of the way first.



  • Posts: 2,827 [Deleted User]


    Wishful thinking. There will always be "Reasons" to drive the kids to school like the weather forecast or Cello transport or Paedophiles that might abduct them or even simple things like the weight of their school bags.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,428 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    more female secondary school students drive themselves to school (note: they drive, rather than are driven) than cycle to school.



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    You are a bit misguided if you think fixing our carbon footprint is a piece of p1ss and wouldn't cost much. Reducing our carbon footprint enough to hit targets will reduce our standard of living significantly and not many people are willing to put up with that.

    And even if we met all our targets, we are such a piddly little country, unless everyone else did the same as us, it won't make a jot of a difference.

    I'm not saying do nothing by any means, but it ain't as simple as putting a few solar panels on every house. That would help, but won't go next nor near what is needed to actually hit the targets.

    One other point, what's the point of putting in loads of electric charging stations when we have Varadkar and other politicians telling us that we mightn't have enough electricity to get us through this winter without blackouts.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    And even if we met all our targets, we are such a piddly little country, unless everyone else did the same as us, it won't make a jot of a difference.

    Yeah, but if everyone says this then we're all fucked.


    Wishful thinking. There will always be "Reasons" to drive the kids to school like the weather forecast or Cello transport or Paedophiles that might abduct them or even simple things like the weight of their school bags.

    The rates of cycling to school have decreased over the last 10 years. Kids are happy to cycle to school, prefer it and are better students when they do. But probably not worth getting killed over.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    TBH I think the likes of China are laughing at Europe and are making climate promises they have no intent on keeping to stay part of the global gang but in reality are watching Europe deliberately make its manufacturing un-competitive cost wise with green taxes so they can clean up, does anyone really believe their covid figures so why would you believe it if they said they are reducing emissions? No way they are going to let the actual figures into the public realm.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    that’s correct. It’s how you behave that matters. And the impact itself is also different. I drive more for sure now I’m a rural dweller. But I consume a hell of a lot less, reuse and recycle a lot more, and am more self sufficient. To what extent this balances out I don’t know. Probably not even possible to measure seeing as it’s increased CO2 from my car set against lower overall consumption

    those that say rural dwellers have a bigger footprint because they drive more etc, are not looking at the whole picture



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,117 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Clearly you haven't been keeping tabs on what's happening in China recently. They've been moving so aggressively away from fossil fuels and toward renewables in recent years that they've actually ran into difficulties generating power in recent times. They've literally been mandating that heavy industry either shut down entirely or work on a limited schedule.

    The thing about Climate Change is that every country will be affected - maybe not equally and definitely not in the same ways but it's not a net good for anyone. In China's case that has meant the same extreme weather as seen elsewhere but also horrific levels of air pollution. The CCP are no mugs and are trying to change things in their usual heavy handed way.

    This idea that certain countries are "laughing at us" while we wring our hands about our own emissions reduction is just plain wrong. It's almost always used to prop up the morally bankrupt argument that we can keep doing whatever we want "because shur aren't we just a small country anyway".



  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    Suuuuure they have, im not a conspiracy theorist but according to the WHO website China have only had 125k covid cases TOTAL and Ireland is close to passing them out for total deaths, where do you think that info and your climate info comes from? Same place maybe? Strange how news on how well they are doing with reducing emissions leaks out but other info of potentially thousands of extra covid deaths hasn't eh?

    So considering their population is over 1.4billion I think that yes, it is very important that they giving us accurate figures as a 1% +or- to them is more than the total emissions of Ireland for multiple years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,117 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Huh? That's not good news for them at all. Their industrial output is getting hammered and their growth projections are being brutalised. When the lights start going out in huge regions of the country - that's not something that can be hidden. It's gotten so bad that they're trying to reopen coal mines that they have previously shuttered in a desperate attempt to get power back into the system.

    You appear to have me pegged as some sort of fan of China. I most certainly am not. I most certainly don't believe their Covid numbers and am even open to the lab origin theory of the genesis of covid.

    Their stance on renewables is the same as their stance on everything else. They realise that it's in the best long term interest of the country to migrate away from fossil fuels. It appears that they moved too fast right now but the trend there is only going to be going in one direction from here on out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,569 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    What do you do with someone like this?

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1452959900896743425



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,353 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Indeed TM. Is there any sign of any of the opposition parties coming out against the broad thrust of the carbon budgets?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,141 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    As I'm sure you know it wasn't the Greens who introduced carbon tax! And no party has said they'll get rid of them, but yes it's all the Greens fault, they'll still get the blame when they're no longer in government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,891 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Leaving aside the fact that she is an actress and tv presenter and not a green the idea is still interesting.

    Of course older people like Lumley who have had their share of travel leave themselves open to charges of hypocrisy if they propose limitations to travel.

    It's easy to say "well they have had their fun and now they want to stop others from travelling" but for every one of her generation suggesting change there are many thousands keeping their head down and continuing to burn as many air miles as they can get away with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    I agree, I think a lot of this is being driven by a desire to undermine the western economies.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Teachers have a lot to answer for encouraging kids and brainwashing them and letting them mitch off school.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Why doesn't anyone ask the question about population growth? It's the elephant in the room.

    Irelands population is projected to grow by 1m in 20 years. That means we need a reduction of about 20% just to remain at today's levels of emissions.

    Let's pretend the 1m is by 2030, that means we need to cut our emissions by roughly 70%. How on earth can emissions be cut by 50% on current levels in 8 years while our population is growing at an incredible rate? And it's not people having babies in Ireland that's growing the population.

    I wonder how much support climate change action would get if there was a 10k fee for having children?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Some of the most fervent Climate Change eco-woke types are also the most vocal for unlimited immigration into Ireland, these people have an agenda and it is not a good one for the middle class or for people with money. I'm all for domestic production of Energy and reducing our emissions but not at the outrageous tax hikes we have seen and the disproportionate effect it is having on rural Ireland. Diesel and Petrol should be cut in price not increased, the green agenda is a communist red ideological agenda designed to destroy the economy and all for a disproven science. If Ireland decided to mass cull the human population to 1% it would make no sense so why should we go about wrecking our economy, when we see the USA, China, India, Brazil cutting their pollution we can then start to do the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I was having a conversation with a nephew (24) and his girlfriend last night about climate change.

    They had some interesting things to say about how they are saving the climate.

    They only go abroad twice a year.

    They eat organic food and only have meat twice a week at most.

    They put everything in the recycle bins.

    They dont have a car.

    They both have eco friendly water bottles and reusable coffee cups.

    Now all of my brothers and sisters, my parents and myself have always been good at being environmentally friendly so they were very proud telling me this.

    Oh they thought they were great and had saved the planet from us oldies.

    I pointed out to them to be careful what they wish for too, because in a few years most of the people paying all this extra tax will be retired and they will be the ones paying the tax for it then. One of them isnt working and the other is paying very little tax.

    What I didnt point out to them but noted myself were these things.

    They live with my sister (his mother). She buys the meat (and all the other organic food) and its her decision to only give them meat twice a week, not theirs. THey eat her out of house and home anyway.

    They dont have a car but my brother in law had dropped them up to the pub and collected them to bring them home after (thats every time they go to the pub). He drops him in to work too and collects him. And drops her into the the town when she is going in, which by my BILs complaints is almost every day.

    They have only gone abroad twice - this year. Every other year they are off on city breaks way more than that.

    They showed me their eco coffee cups, but they were both drinking bottled beer while they proudly showed me the cups.

    Their mother is the one who cleans up after them and sorts their stuff for the bins.

    They have a pc and a playstation in their room and are playing fortnight every time im in the house. I hope they realize they will have to go once their green conscience realizes.

    Their eco footprints were way higher than mine. They werent actually trying, they were just living in the house of someone who was trying.

    But yet they were comp[laining that others werent doing enough and were killing the planet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,631 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    I mean cost much relative to the yearly fines we're going to incur as a result of missed targets.

    The reality is that for a problem of this scale, smalls changes are not going to make a big difference.

    I think the Solar Panel thing is an important step. Retro fitting panels to an existing house starts off at roughly €5200, a 120W solar panel from Spain is roughly €100 (You're need 6 and can have up ti 8) , a 1000W 12v DC to 220v AC inverter is about €100 from Spain, Cabling roughly €50, Some smart device to monitor €80. that's roughly €1000 for a standard enough system... So where is the other €4,200 going?????? (Middle men!)

    That's what I mean when I say this could be done cheap, we need to cut out these quangos, agencies, middle men and chancers.

    I want to get Solar installed in my home, not to save money but to become more self sustained. But I cannot justify it at €5,200. I'd probably want a 12 panel system too so would be significant more than the price mentioned.

    I could install the equipment myself but I'm "Not Qualified" to install DC system (which is rubbish!)

    And no electrician is gonna come out to installed an Inverter and hook it up to the mains (at roughly €25 per hour) as its only a 1 or 2 hour job max, and they're not making any money on cables or equipment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Exactly right. The crazy thing is they do not even talk about per capita missions reductions, they just talk about emissions reductions in absolute terms, which means per capita emissions will have to go down well over 50%. Not going to happen!



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    THis idea of the same relative reduction applied to all countries also makes absolutely no sense because countries are starting at different starting points. Ireland is starting from a clean position with no heavy industry, while China is starting from a dirty position with massive polluting heavy industry like steel and chemicals.

    It would be like if a mother had two teenage sons, one of them had a spotless bedroom and the other had an extermely messy and untidy room. Then the mother says "you must both clean your room by 50%"....I think we'd all agree the mother is pretty stupid to make the same relative demand on both sons.

    Go after the actual polluters!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,141 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Agriculture in Ireland is a pretty heavy industry, beef and dairy are huge emitters of Co2 and methane. China produce that steel and those chemicals for Ireland and Europe too you know. It's a global problem and everyone needs to do their bit.

    What is it you're all actually afraid of? Is it just simply having a few less euros every week?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    UK and Germany had very generous PV grant systems and feed in tariffs over 10 years ago which were big drivers in demand which reduced PV panel costs for everyone and they have massive amounts of crucial retro fit domestic PV as a result, Ireland's approach has just been more taxes 🙄



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