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Black History Month Ireland, why?

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  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Would love to see the source for that, unless it was Brits who ended up leaving. Up til I was 8 (in the 90s) the only black people I ever saw in real life were a couple of cousins. Would love to know where the rest were.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes renaissance to 20th century is europeand(nordic, slavic and latin)

    Mostly Latin actually and the whole "nordic, slavic" stuff is a 19th century pseudo scientific nonsense that bears no scrutiny.

    Make no mistake the next couple of centuries belong to east asia. Chinese already planning 1km long space ships while the west is devoting all its energies to BLM and tranny toilets

    Unlikely. The Chinese are leveraged to a point of near failure. Their population is growing older before it's become rich enough to be self sustaining. If the West stopped buying even 20% of Chinese made stuff they'd be screwed. They're utterly reliant on the western market. If that fails, they fail. They can talk about 1km spaceships until the cows come home but it's a pipe dream. Their existing space programme is a pale copy of Russian/Soviet kit with a few tweaks and a privateer like Musk with US gov cash is putting more stuff into earth orbit in a year than the Chinese have put in their entire history of spaceflight. And "BLM and tranny toilets" as you put it are a tiny sideshow on the fringes mostly on the interwebs that ultimately mean nada.

    If it's the Guardian I'd love to see their evidence of 10,000 Africans living in Ireland in the 19th century. England had around 20,000 Black people, half of whom were in London. Ireland was an agrarian society beyond the Pale and Dublin was a smaller and poorer city by comparison that pretty much bypassed the industrial revolution. They would have stood out in a big way and would not be nearly so invisible. And where did they magically vanish to? That many would have left a fair number of descendants, yet in the 20th century Ireland was about the "Whitest" nation in Europe.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Because you made a vague assertion about the supposed ignorance of posters, assuming a position of superiority in terms of knowledge and understanding. You followed up with the attitude that we should just believe you that others are ignorant and that you know better, doubling down on more vague accusations about posters who supposedly didn't know what they were talking about. Without quotes or evidence showing these ignorant beliefs, just more claims that they exist.

    As for my supposed obligation to "push back" on false beliefs... err... when was I conscripted into that regiment, and why didn't I get the memo?

    Lastly, You didn't post any facts in your response to me. You posted your opinions on a variety of subjects. Now, it's quite telling that you consider your opinions to be the same as historical facts, but I hate to break it to you.. you're just not that important. Your opinions are still just opinions. Just as mine are. Facts, especially historical facts are something else entirely, because they're not open to interpretation and the debate about their meaning or value, comes after the fact has been established. Because facts aren't really debatable. Somewhat.

    So... the idea being that if you care about the topic, then you would invest time in defending the position that you've taken. Rather than just doubling down on every response, trying to reinforce your position, with nothing more solid than the air you're breathing while typing.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    "My research" says 3-10k. 3k sounds a lot more reasonable. If we're talking about people "presenting" as black I doubt it'd be that high either.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Haha... that''s your proof of ignorance (lack of knowledge) and the basis of your outrage over others beliefs?

    Oh lord. You're really scraping the barrel if that's your justification for assuming the position you did (especially since this post came after you assumed that position)



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    TBH few of us have any history pre-famine times anyway so this seems like a lot of fuss about nothing much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    RTE is awful.

    If they were some free website I could just ignore them, but they want to force me to give them money.

    I don't understand who RTE is supposed to represent, because it isn't me or anyone I know.

    The fact they are doing Black History Month is proof the management need to be fired, as they're completely out of touch with reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    Grand. For my part, I find it a lot easier to believe a person would be assaulted in a pub than the anecdote related above.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Um,. actually there are more Asians living in Ireland than Black people, so it would make far more sense to have such a history month for them, and [I suspect] they've also had a longer history/presence in Ireland/Europe than Black people.

    Just regarding misinformation... since you decided to highlight the misinformation that comes from the American Right, but I guess you don't have any similar concerns about misinformation coming from the American Left? Or those with agendas to push (NGOs, Lobby groups, etc)?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Wonder if any actual experts can validate his claim or opinion



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They will adapt. The point is they are aiming for 1km long space ships. They are planning generations in advance while the west cannot plan for more than 5 years ahead



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Would you believe hundreds of kids were abused by people throwing stones at them, bags of urine, bricks and had abuse shouted at them on their way to school?

    People do really **** things.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just look at the trend. Western university students are getting consent classes and diversity training in their opening weeks. Korean-Japanese-Chinese students are gettinf introduced to the previous high achieving alumni, goals and aspirations of progress. Agree demograohics of china and japan don,t loom great but expect great things from Thais, Cambodians, Vietnamese, and maybe the phillippines.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Plans are easy though. Implementation is entirely different. The vast majority of China's big projects have started to fall apart less than 20 years after being completed. In addition, as Wibbs pointed out, their economy is in the toilet and getting worse all the time. They've destroyed their society through greed and corruption, with rising social disorder happening due to the scandals of government officials scamming the common person of their savings.. never mind that the average person is in debt to their eyelids. Along, with their serious problems with population replacement, infertility, pollution, etc.

    Nope. China is going the way of past communist economies. They've screwed themselves big time, and wasted so many opportunities to truly establish a stable economy. I wouldn't be expecting them to achieve much and if they do, it will involve sacrificing their future for gestures to help them save face in the short term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Probably on sailing ships and the British Navy in port towns. Our climate tens to pale everyone after a few years. I didn't know that Phil Lynott was black for many years!



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I see th potential problems for the Chinese, but surely the falling standards in the west are a great concern, eg grade inflation, standards of work etc

    What societal aspirations does any western country have today to compare to the Apollo program? The average westerner won,t even sacrifice their daily latte. We see it in state building projects....have to be finished quick because of electorate,s short attention span. Who now starts a big project that their grandchildren will complete, which will still be use in 1000 years time?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    I agree with this.

    It's actually worse than what you're saying though.

    Things such as banning critical thinking from school (everything is memorisation only) has created a population who are good at copying and factory work, but not much else.

    Can anyone here name three world class brands from China which aren't based on copying or stealing something from the West?



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Samsung made cheap transistor radios in the 70s. Who knew amd 20 years ago?(a taiwan, hence chinese company). Toyota before 1950. All these unknown companies are world spanning now. I expect in the next 50 years to see Chinese , thai , vietnamese manufacturers to take their places internationally, just like the likes of Siemens, Krups and Ford.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    What societal aspirations does any western country have today to compare to the Apollo program?

    Apollo only existed because a) the cold war b) America was at her economic height c) political showboating by the president to keep the electorate jazzed up and southern states on side because of the cash injection. On the latter front if Kennedy hadn't been killed chances are pretty good they would have dialled right back on the project and Johnson his replacement by default was a space nut. Nixon though loving the attention of the first landing was quick to cut NASA'a budget and put an end to Apollo.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,416 ✭✭✭archfi


    I would have thought that would be a strand for Black History Lessons via RTE. If it's true.

    That actually would be more interesting than the irrelevant US African-American stuff.

    The issue is never the issue; the issue is always the revolution.

    The Entryism process: 1) Demand access; 2) Demand accommodation; 3) Demand a seat at the table; 4) Demand to run the table; 5) Demand to run the institution; 6) Run the institution to produce more activists and policy until they run it into the ground.



  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Fishdoodle


    I see on a website that Ireland has been celebrating Black History Month since 2014

    https://www.irishcentral.com/news/how-ireland-is-celebrating-national-black-history-month

    I couldn’t find any evidence of community celebration , even for this year. Perhaps someone else can.

    So an Open Question

    What constitutes a national celebration??? Can a media outlet (such as RTÉ) claim that a nation celebrates an event merely by airing programming based on a selected theme?




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I remember a time when made in Japan was a way of saying 'cheap and shoddy'



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Those that can successfully imitate today are more likely to innovate tomorrow



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    I really hate this new site for these kinds of discussions.

    Whether one agrees with that post or not, not a single part of it has "seeped" from US right wing sources into Irish media. Ireland bears zero resemblance to Black trends or experiences in the US, or anywhere else for that matter. For example Ireland was the only EU nation with Jus soli citizenship until that was closed by a majority vote by the Irish electorate. No other EU country had it, or a similar experience with Black or other diasporas coming here.


    And which Irish media are regurgitating right wing sources anyway? Irish media is pretty much entirely pro multiculturalism across the board. Unless you're one of those who are convinced that there's anything like an effective right wing movement in this country? Reds under the bed for the Right On generation. I hate to break it to you, there isn't. The joke that is the national party's entire voting bloc is well under a thousand people as elections have shown, their own party would just about fill an average classroom and going by their previous meetings at some point some of them would walk out because they went too mad in their rhetoric. The rest of the "right wing" in this country are to be found in blogs and bits and bobs on youtube and number in the dozens at best.

    Do you not include social media in your definition of media - if you believe it is just traditional formats then fair enough but the modern concept for most includes online and social media and to me you'd have to have blinkers on to not see it.

    Well you seem to and accuse anyone who doesn't agree with your position of doing the same. Never mind that the content would have pretty much zero application to Irish culture and any Black culture within Ireland. It would be akin to having an Irish history month in Poland that only highlighted Bostonians.

    I never said Black History Month should only cover US history, I repeatedly said it shouldn't.

    It would be like having an Irish history month and ignoring Irish diaspora in the US.

    Not unless you're an uninformed American or falling for the same US-Irish seepage yourself. Hispanic as the very name suggests speaks of Spanish speaking populations in the Americas and almost exclusively an American notion(and usually aimed at central Americans). Brazil isn't an ex Spanish colony, they speak Portuguese which should give the game away.

    Have stood corrected on this - should have used Latinx history month. I have no problem being corrected when I make an error.

    Name five Black people in Irish history before 1990. If you can you can also be sure they got quite a bit of limelight too and fair enough. There were certainly a few African third level students in the mix before the 90's, more Middle Eastern folks on top and there were a few Black folks living here(one even got a mention in Peig IIRC as a "Blue man"), but they were an absolutely tiny minority(they're still well under 2% of the population) and to suggest that Ireland had a "Black history" before the 90's that deserves a month of US based and biased "race relations" is a leap that would win the gold in the imagination olympics. That's not a judgement either way, it's a plain fact.

    Nope, not letting you shift the goal posts - the OP said

    we have no black history that doesn't predate the 90's

    If they said we have limited black history I wouldn't have pulled them up on that, though their absolutely racist post, that you have had no problem with, would still be despicable. I have never claimed that the history month should just cover Irish history so I don't see what line of argument you're going for.

    What is a plain fact is that Ireland has celebrated it for the last 11 years and society has not crumbled. In this time I have never seen a ground swell for any of the other whataboutery months that certain posters suddenly claim should be celebrated.

    To think that the majority of the Irish public couldn't do with learning more about other cultures and their history falls right into that ignorant group again.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Err... that's not true. I've taught at Chinese universities for just over 11 years, and many of my positions included courses on critical thinking. I know that critical thinking tends to be a required subject on most university degree programs.

    Conformity is, and has always been an important part of Chinese culture, long before Mao came along. That's the problem. The fear of standing out and disagreeing with others. It does happen though, and I'd say that every class of 40-60 university students will have two-three students who are fully capable (and confident enough) to counter what others say, while the remainder will seek mob approval or simply go with the accepted version of things. And before you think that's bad... consider what's happened in the US regarding any courses related to the social sciences or psychology. . (TBH it wasn't much different in my own classes when I was in University, where most students stayed quiet rather than look foolish in front of others.)

    The problem with copying is that China doesn't tend to have any kind of honor code system in their schools/universities, so they're taught by society that you should cheat in order to get ahead. Which kinda makes sense when you're competing with a billion other people for limited resources and employment. It's easier to talk about being honorable when resources are plentiful. Also, to add, I've seen the same attitude in a variety of Asian and African countries.. not just China. The other issue is the lack of personal responsibility, so the **** flows downhill and good ideas are often stolen by your manager, so there's a general attitude of "why bother", when it just means more work and little improvement in your life.

    As for your last point, I can't.. but then I don't pay much attention to such things.. however, a large part of modern "innovation" is taking something created previously and improving on it. The Chinese do that very well... it's just that they gained the reputation of stealing IP, but there's a lot of innovation going on in China that's not from stolen IP/Tech.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol



    You are aware that your last paragraph is describing your posting style. I have repeatedly put my hands up when I've been wrong on this thread and elsewhere, while you double down again and again, demanding evidence while claiming that you are above it - though the bold is a nice touch.

    I did post facts you just didn't like them.

    Just taking one, it is a historical fact that MLK had serious issues with white people who claimed to agree with the civil rights agenda but wanted them to protest in a different way, going as far as noting that he almost felt they were worse than the KKK.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Haha,... they're not potential problems anymore. They're real and serious problems right now. With few ways of countering them without a massive overhaul of both their traditional culture and their modern society.

    Yeah.. I've been worried about the West for about two decades now.. but honestly, my worries aren't going to change anything. The social sciences continue to gain support, just has American politicalised psychology established itself in most governments/health services/education, and we're still pushing problems on to the next generation, rather than biting the bullet and solving them now.

    Big projects don't tend to seek public support nowadays because the State steps in, along with private business investment. You should take a look at some of the science based big projects that have been going on in Europe over the last few decades. There's some rather impressive experiments going on. I don't have a huge interest in such things, but if you widen your scope a bit, you'll find quite a few big projects ongoing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Totally different cultures.

    Japan has a perfectionist culture, they gave a watered down version of this when they took over Taiwan. China has a lowest common denominator culture. I know China very well (I live in Asia).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Complete strawman, I have stated it would make sense to have an Asian history month too.

    Can you to provide examples of this misinformation, given how exacting you are I'd like a selection of posts to support this opinion?



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