Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Michael D Higgins insists he is President of Ireland, refuses to commemorate partition

Options
1575860626369

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Alt-right?

    Are you a bingo machine that just spits out a random pejorative in the hope to win an argument?

    There is no Catholic majority in NI... This is just a fact.



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yous are good enough to label all and sundry homophobes and racists for no reason, what-so-ever while also openly posting alt right memes.....fairly clear to me,what yous game here is anyway


    except there is widely expected to be catholic majority when census results are posted....but sure who needs facts and logic,when you have memes 💁‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The "middle ground" considers themselves distinct from the rest of the UK but also distinct from the South. In the short-term there is no interest in an independent Northern Ireland, but a strong desire to retain that distinctiveness. Given the current devolution arrangements, a strong hold to the status quo will be attractive unless a united Ireland offers the opportunity for greater devolution as well as a path to a possibly independent Northern Ireland.

    Such an offer isn't on the table, and the rabid nature of the border poll contingent, as reflected on here, are not likely to offer it either, so that middle ground will strongly lean towards the status quo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Partition exists, and we have accepted that fact by acknowledging that we have no power to change it. It's as simple as that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What Blaaz is relying on is a single question in the Census which acts as a pure sectarian headcount.

    "In the last census, held in 2011, 45.1% of the population specified that they were Catholic or brought up Catholic, and 48.4% were from a Protestant or other Christian background. However, the results of the new national identity question were more complicated: 39.9% considered themselves British only, 25.3% Irish only, 20.9% Northern Irish only, with others specifying multiple national identities."

    The latter national identity question gives a better picture of the possible outcomes of a border poll.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So you agree cat/nat majority is about and likely largest grouping?


    Still trying to pedel that polls and elections are undemocratic...you goys fall apart when faced with facts and logic...no amount of wishing/propaganda is gonna make anyone believe elections and polls are undemocratic🤣



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Except a border poll can change it.....why lie?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,853 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady



    Yes, you and Mark most certainly have 'accepted' it, as I already said.

    In fact you are angling for a long time to come up with ways of stopping a decision on ending partition or ways of rigging the system already agreed to in the GFA (super majorities etc.) or the ludicrious notion that there is political support for an independent NI.

    We know you would do nothing blanch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I see there is a pattern now. When your alternative fantasy world and facts are called into question, you start spinning out a mountain of buzzwords and soundbites in order to appear clever. Yet looking at the way you construct an argument it's clear you barely know the meaning behind many of these words.

    Again, ill repeat. There is NO Catholic majority in NI.

    That.is.all



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    What this shows is that no longer are there only two separate electorates in the North, there are 3, with the new third one growing. In fact, it won't be long till the 'Catholic/Nationalist' bloc will be relegated to 3rd place.

    To borrow a phrase, Sectarian headcounts no longer butter's any parsnips. lol



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Except i do.....quite why your wanting to argue againest facts and logic with alt right memes and now are rattled for anyone dare and being pointed out is beyond me



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Except that unfortunately for you goys,there isnt a 3rd option (mainly because a seperate stare has been tried and ended in civil war),no matter how much you virtue-signal in favour of it



    But hay,who needs facts and logic,once it "feels" right



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Yea, I am rattled against facts that do not exist and that have not been presented to me.. rattled I tell ya, rattled!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The 3rd option are mostly agnostic on the issue and will most likely break hard to into the 'remain as we are camp' if push comes to shove. Thats the point....



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Except theres no data,other than your own bias prejudice towards partition to support this viewpoint?


    But hay,throw up a few more alt right memes,might get you out of needing facts and logic or commonsense to support yous pov


    You goys know,that.ni as a state failed already,to extent it ended in civil/human right abuses and civil war....why do yous virtue signal in favour of repeating it?



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So you now reject the prelimiamry and widely expected to proven census figures??



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,853 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What data is this based on?

    It is very clear if you research the NI identity that it is actually two separate identities. Northern Irish identifiers who see themselves as occupants of the northern part of Ireland and Northern Irish identifiers who see themselves as occupiers of a region of the UK.

    Put that another way, the overarching identity is different, one is Irish and the other British.

    It is also very clear that it is an identity of convenience that responds to political events, for instance during the 'fleg' dispute in 2012 or during Brexit and Unionist party implosion. Dissatisfied Unionists are swelling the ranks of the NI identity at the moment.

    Looks to me like it is a flag of convenience to be honest and the fact that this fluctuating identity has not manifested in political preference for an 'independent' NI means to me that it is indeed two different identities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    No, I don't agree.

    Again, you are the one peddling lies. If I was answering the Census up North and asked the question whether I was brought up a Catholic, I would answer yes, even though I am now an atheist and haven't been inside a church other than for funerals and weddings of other for the last 30 years. That would mean that I was included on the nationalist side in the sectarian headcount that SF and the DUP just love.

    No wonder there is such a growing third option when the likes of you and the sectarian beancounters try to label people falsely.

    You are still peddling lies about me claiming that elections and polls are undemocratic. Legislation voted in democratically means that we have local and European elections every five years. Therefore if you called for a local election tomorrow, you would be acting undemocratically. A border poll is in a similar position in that we have democratically decided what conditions are necessary for a border poll. Until those conditions are met, calling for a border poll is acting undemocratically.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Someone claims to be posting facts, yet it is "widely expected" to be a catholic majority. If it is widely expected, then it isn't a fact. In the 1500s, people widely expected the world to be flat.

    Maybe, less of the widely expected and more of the facts next time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,853 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    'Conditions' for a Border Poll are at the discretion of the SoS. Therefore 'the conditions' will be based on an opinion.

    So your opinion that the conditions have NOT been met are as valid as the opinion of someone who thinks they have been met and is calling for a poll.

    Not a scintilla of a lack of democracy there. You are talking more nonsense.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 29,081 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the evidence is against this claim.

    there is no middle ground, there are those for remaining as part of the UK and those who want a UI.

    within a UI there is not going to be devolution, 1 country 1 government as it should be, we are a small country and different government layers and structures just make things inefficient.

    there is no NI identity, the idea of there being one is wishful thinking with no basis in reality.

    NI is never going to be independent, there will only be a UI.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,081 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    there is going to be a nationalist majority quite soon however.

    a catholic majority isn't needed, just a majority who would vote for a UI, that majority will be cross community.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,081 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    so they are part of the second option ultimately, remaining as part of the UK, assuming it survives and doesn't break up.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    And the courts have said that must be an honest opinion, you have kindly provided the links, and that means it must be based on verifiable evidence that can be judicially reviewed post-event. It would be a very stupid SoS that would call a border poll in advance of there being clear evidence that it would be passed.

    A dishonest person could call for a border poll now, that is true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I am sorry for you, but all of the evidence is pointing towards an emerging middle ground.

    You clearly demonstrate in your post why those who like being Northern Irish, who like living in Northern Ireland will vote no to a united Ireland, because, as you point out, "within a UI, there is not going to be devolution".



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,853 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Utter nonsense.

    So far up a cul de sac you went on this you tried to pretend that there are two different polls and that the GFA one was 'different.

    When that bizarre theory was blown out of the water the disappearance happened.

    Now you are trying to project again.

    Jamie Bryson engages in this cod legalese too, and also never seems to have the specific text to back himself up.

    Partitionist Projecting Legalese I will call what you indulge in. Me? I just present the facts and the source and the text in black and white as I did above, which once again shows you are talking utter nonsense - there are no constraints on the SoS, no mention whatsoever of 'honest verifiable evidence that needs to be able to stand a judicial review'. You are bluffing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Even 'ulster scots' identify as ulster, which is an Irish province on the island of Ireland. They don't even have claim to all of ulster. Partition only made sense back when there was no democracy, no vote and no representation for certain quarters and gerrymandering was accepted behaviour. Times have changed. Unionists need to accept that. The idea of a partition makes even less sense today.

    It was formed without public consent. IMO we shouldn't even need a referendum on unification, but it's very nice of us to treat the issue in a fair and democratic manner.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,853 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There has always been a 'middle ground'. Nothing 'new' or 'emerging' about it.

    The reason the Unionist body politic is imploding is because that middle ground is switching because that 'middle ground' always had it's economic interests at heart first, and were relatively insulated from the conflict/war.

    Unionist strategy is failing to keep that middle ground happy with the status quo and is drowning as a political ideology as a result. As belligerent Unionists would say themselves, Doug Beattie is making a Lundy of himself trying to appeal to the Unionist section of the 'middle ground'. with the Alliance being accused of being Shinners.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,081 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    there is no and is never going to be a specific northern irish nationality or identity nor is there ever going to be an independent or devolved NI within a UI, you need to get over it.

    partition has failed and is in it's death throws, devolution even as part of the UK has been an abject failure because the DUP and those of their mindset are unable to govern.

    the middle ground will vote the way they feel will bring them the greater benefits, it will not be based on loyalty, and as time goes by the evidence is showing the UK is not the better bet.

    the specific NI identity, like the independent NI or devolved NI within a UI, are the last ditch attempts by those in favour of the failed, sectarian, racist entity that is partition, to keep that entity in place.

    it's over, a UI is coming.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 6,716 ✭✭✭eire4


    I tend to agree with you about a cross community majority. I think brexit is the key in that regard and as the pandemic hopefully at some point in 2022 becomes endemic and the full realities of brexit kick in and become clear that will bring a reunified Ireland closer IMHO.



Advertisement