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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,428 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    weird, if china is so dirty, and we're so squeaky clean, that their CO2 per capita is lower than ours?

    especially since the reason theirs is as high as it is is because a huge amount of the stuff we consume is made there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    Chinese propaganda. Like the lad in the pub who's always telling everyone how great he is with the women just because they say it doesn't make it true.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...hopefully by that stage, their generation will have figured out, we dont actually have to tax everything out of existence, including the human race, it probably wont work anyway, and that we actually have to create brand spanking new institutions, in particular public ones, to deal with these issues, taxation is only one element to achieve these goals, it alone wont work, as us dumb adults havent truly figured out yet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Up there with Attenborough, more airmiles than half of Africa



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    hes probably the most famous environmentalist alive, by traveling, he has educated most of us on our current issues, and still is....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Large amount of his stuff was staged, he's a showman, nothing more



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,141 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Do you ever think maybe people like Attenborough should be the ones flying though? People who matter to very important causes? None of his work would have been possible without flying, it serves an important purpose, unlike a bunch of lads flying to Riga for a stag weekend for 50 euro return.



  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    But if air travel is so dangerous for the planet why hasn't he used a sail boat to travel to these places the last 20 years that's he's been preaching? He's like an anti drugs campaigner who only snorts coke a few times a year. You are either in or out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,141 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    There is simply no way we can continue consuming as we are and living the lives we are living without the Earth being completely destroyed. So we can either completely change our lives, or we're facing war, famine, mass migration like we've never seen before, etc. A few euros less a week on tax will be the least of your worries.

    There's no easy way out of this - which is why we aren't going to get out of this mess, I believe that people would rather go to war than change, we'll see in the coming decades. As soon as shortages become regular occurrences we'll have all kinds of nut jobs in power too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yes, its common for tv recordings to be 'staged', as this is how the whole sector works, without which, it would be impossible to create such programs, and yes, hes also an entertainer, as most other presenters are in the industry!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    So why give him credit for something he really isn't. He's basically an older version of Schofield flogging any old tat for profit



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,141 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    So you'd rather we never got the BBC nature programs because you think it's not fair David Attenborough flies? F*cking hell it's like dealing with children when it comes to this subject.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...again, it would simply be impossible to create these programs by sailing alone, theres an enormous amount of behind the scenes thats required to make such programming, most of which we dont see, ive been lucky to trek with professional photographers before, you d be surprised what goes on behind the scenes, hes nothing like someone that consumes addictive drugs such as coke....

    yes, we cannot continue consuming as we are, but taxation alone will not solve this, its just going to p1ss more and more people off, leading them to not give a fcuk more and more, and will more than likely lead them to engage in more and more activities that will just cause even more environmental damage. we ve made too much emphasis on the taxation element that is required, and not enough on the investment side, particularly public investment, this is ultimately due to the approach of modern political and economic ideologies, it wont work



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    I don't give a monkeys if Attenborough cooks pandas on an old tyre fired barbecue, he has no more right to tell me what to do than you do,

    By the way Eamon Ryan apparently calling for a one world dictatorship, this your lot?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...again, because he has probably educated most humans on our current environmental issues, ive even had high level environmental scientists admit that hes played a far bigger role than most scientists have ever done in educating mankind on these matters



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Individuals cannot fix climate change

    It has to be top down regulations on industry

    David Attenborough could launch himself into space while drinking the stem cells of an aborted panda bear and still do more to combat climate change than the people who commit suicide (reducing their personal carbon emissions to almost zero)


    All this 'virtue signalling' and 'hypocrite shaming' is absolute bolloxology. What we need is for the politicians at COP26 to agree to keep the oil coal and gas underground, and agree to binding commitments to invest in transitioning the global economy from fossil fuels, to carbon neutral energy and industry

    This means that you can virtue signal all you like about how electric your car is or how many solar panels you have on your house, but if you vote for politicians who oppose environmental regulations on industry and oppose measures aimed at weaning us off fossil fuels asap, then you might as well be clubbing baby seals for fun as far as environmentalism is concerned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,070 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Reminds me of the climate activists from secondary schools who go 'on strike' every now & then to protest at how their planet is being destroyed. But who in most cases would never dream of walking or cycling to school, have to be dropped in by car. Who demand the latest technology so they can keep up with changing trends and so on.

    Fact is that when I was growing up in the 60s/70s we basically had to cycle everywhere - sun, rain, wind or snow. Rarely got new clothes and very little technology. Holidays in Ireland. Generally made do with far less and were far more self reliant.

    Good to see them getting exercised about something but you wouldn't be too impressed at their full committment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ah hes p1ss poor at times alright, he means well, but like most modern politicians, has very little understanding of what life is like for many people



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  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    They can fine us all they want. It won't make a difference because the targets are unattainable unless some mad technology is invented that gets rid of the need for fossil fuels etc. I'm thinking if solar got powerful enough to fully power a house/car etc. Other than that, we are p1ssing into the wind.

    The reasons I think the above:

    1. Most people aren't willing to take the kind of hit to their lifestyle/standard of living that is needed to hit the targets.
    2. The population is continually increasing so the target is getting more and more unrealistic.




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,070 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    When I campaigned for the Greens many moons ago - the mantra was 'Reduce, Reuse, Recycle'. The Greens then campaigned against environmental destruction.

    Different message from the modern Greens here now on the whole. It's all about developing new technology, churning the market. Some of this technology such as battery production is very dubious indeed. Instead of protecting the environment, they are happy to promote the development of massive wind farms with all the necessary infrastructure required to build them and distribute the power back to cities. Environmental vandalism on a large scale. Then we have the Green battery farms, also dubious.

    Little emphasis on Reducing as that's unpopular and anti growth. Remember the old Green philosophy espoused by Richard Douthwaite in his seminal book The Growth Illusion? What happened to that idea?

    Instead of Reusing - we were encouraged by Green policies to switch our cars from petrol to diesel and now from diesel to battery power. Far better to keep existing fleet running as long as possible.

    We are left with Recycling - the last of the three Rs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,141 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Of course taxation wont solve it, us paying an extra 20 euro a week or something like that on fuel isn't going to solve anything, and really I don't know how people can get pissed off with that given the damage it's doing.

    If we wanted to actually save the Earth, taxes would be the least of our worries. A massive reduction in the available products we import and sell for starters. We are encouraged to change our house interior and furniture every few years, completely unnecessary, and requires massive stores like IKEA full of Chinese crap for these things to happen. Fast fashion, more crap we don't need. Most people were fine when clothes shops were closed during Covid.

    So basically we'd have to be restricted on all kinds of things, have far, far less consumer choice and spending power. We would have to make do with a lot less, like people did in the past. But we're f*cking snowflakes now and want everything from anywhere in the world whenever we want.

    So yeah, war is the only outcome I can see in the 21st century when food and resource shortages start to kick off, I know Canada and Russia has massive reductions in grain harvests this year, who knows how bad things will be in 20 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Was looking at the CO2 per capita chart, our output hasn't really changed since 1971, bit higher in the late naughties but the overall average is stagnant,



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Same here. I will be getting solar panels installed but am waiting until the government cops on and makes it affordable. The penny will drop at some stage that domestic solar needs to be part of the strategy, and that it needs to be incentivised. Hopefully I won’t be waiting too long



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    I don't know if anyone caught Pat Kenny yesterday morning interviewing Peter Thorne from the Climate Change Advisory Council about the implications of Ireland’s first carbon budget.

    Interesting the way certain things are slanted by these people, was almost like listening to some posters around here.

    Pat made very salient point that Brazil are slaughtering the rain forest so they can grow crops and raise animals whilst we plan to cut our production and Mr Thorne starts waffling about goats on the village green.

    Typical green party waffle where we will screw ourselves and how we will influence others by seeing "to be the best boy in class even though we make precious little difference to what is happening" (Pat's phrase actually)

    Pat asked him about implications of all the wildfires in likes of California over last couple of years.

    Mr Thorne said it was recylcing the carbon that was in the surface and it was natural carbon cycle.

    Then Pat countered that wasn't the belching cattle just releasing methane built up in short term grass and of course Mr Thorne started on about fossil methane.

    When someone (called Bill) raised fact nuclear would solve energy demand and they raised different nuclear options (compact reactors, etc) Mr Thorne said nuclear was never part of the terms of reference for their discussions.

    Then he starts waffling about constitution legally mentioned that we cannot go nuclear????

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    the reason why so many are getting p1ssed off, is because the cost of living has become so great, particularly in relation to meeting their property needs, house prices and rent etc, hence our approach of taxation is just going to continue to fail, fail to meet citizens needs, including their environmental needs. this is ultimately due to modern political and economic ideologies, implemented by both the left and right, its not going to work.

    again, theres virtually little or no emphasis on the bigger picture here, for example, if we did in fact dramatically reduce our consumption, particularly under these modern ideologies, if would more than likely lead to catastrophic economic crashes globally, i.e. our whole global economic systems are primarily based on growing consumption, we simply cant turn it off, without implementing ways to make sure all humans most critical needs are met in turn, we still havent figured out how to do this, and many ideas that may just work, arent even being currently entertained!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Closing all pubs and coffee shops forever would do more for the environment in one go than anything else that has been done.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,428 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    what's the encapsulated carbon in a PV panel?

    i.e. how long does it have to be working before it actually starts to reduce CO2?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...and probably would cause serious economic problems, as most are employed in the sme sectors



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