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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,140 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Read a book called Doughnut Economics, it's very good. Basically we need to provide a certain standard of living for everyone, community, and some opportunity, all within the realm of keeping the environment safe and restoring it from the mess we made of it. This standard of living needs to be a lot different to what we have now, I would think having 3 cars in the driveway and 4 foreign holidays a year and constantly buying useless rubbish needs to be a thing of the past.

    Catastrophic economic crashes are going to happen anyway, but that's because we're part of a rotten economic system that just wants to rape the sh*t out of the Earth until we've nothing left to eat but each other.

    I don't think for a second we're capable of changing our ways by the way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    What we need to do is go Nuclear, whilst continuing to invest in other green technologies to make them more reliable (including fusion).



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,140 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    The economy in itself is a serious problem, it's on a crash course to nothing being left on earth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    And yet, you're the generation that has doomed the planet

    The kids these days are only the way they are because your generation made them that way.

    Your generation are the ones who knew about climate change since you were in your early 20s and did absolutely nothing to stop it, and in fact spend half your life trying to protect your own assets and wealth at the cost of your own children and grandchildren

    You're going to be the first generation in centuries where your children will grow up in a world that is fundamentally worse than the one they were born into.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,140 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    It's f*cking hilarious how the usual cranks start giving out about kids with their iPhones and foreign holidays and being brought to school in a Range Rover - like the kids invented this world. Their greedy lazy thoughtless parents did, so that's all these kids know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    been following raworth a few years now, i know the story, thank you, its important to realise, only a small proportion of us understand these concepts, we can try sell it to others, but that to has limitations, we urgently need implement immediately noticeable policies, that give average joe and mary a break, we ve largely failed to do this to date, we ve just been p1ssing them off more and more.

    yes catastrophic economic crashes will more than likely always occur, but there are plenty of ideas out there to try prevent them, or at least try prevent their overall damage, we re no where near implementing these changes, in fact we keep just defaulting to our old policies and approaches.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    We don't need to invent any new tech, we already have all the technology we need, we just need to the political will and the investment to install it



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1




  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Forgive me if I am misinterpreting, but are you suggesting we currently have all the technology we need to replace fossil fuels?



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I am going to characterise the opposing side as a straw man containing a heady brew of innocence, naivety and hypocrisy, with a heavy sprinkling of avocados, almond milk, and takeaway coffee cups. I may, in some cases, claim that said straw man is someone I know/a family member/someone I've met. I will proceed to mock and ridicule "Green" policies by demolishing said straw man.

    I'm new to this. Am I doing it right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,358 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    If only we were around to stop the ice age 1000s of years ago.


    Wonder how we could have achieved that?


    Sure it's easy to stop the climate changing on earth that it has done for billions of years.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,211 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    I wouldn't bet on it. I can't afford a EV, the public charge network is crap and I don't have somewhere to put a charger at home anyway so I'll keep driving around in my petrol car and my next car will be a petrol car as well.

    I can't afford solar panels or a heat pump (hear very mixed feedback on those yokes btw) so unless there is serious government incentivisation to make these things affordable I won't be partaking and will continue to burn carbon as I have no other choice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    It's the rate of change that is concerning, and a result of human undertakings.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,475 ✭✭✭Damien360


    You are looking back at a generation and assuming current knowledge of what people knew was common knowledge. I’m a child of the 70’s and we all knew about the ozone layer I reckon through the 80’s and 90’s. That’s about the sum of it.

    Now, I have read enough and listened to enough podcasts to be aware that those in charge knew a damn sight more about the harm being done (BP funded research that found harm caused by fossil fuels but decided to bin it and change the narrative).

    The knowledge the average Joe had in 60’s, 70’s, 80’s and 90’s was based on what the newspapers published and not scientific papers. I’m thinking early 00’s was probably similar but it’s hard to pinpoint for me when the internet really came to the masses. You are linking your current access to data and extrapolating back the same access to previous generations. It quite simply wasn’t there.

    You are also following the “divide and conquer” story as set out by those whose vast wealth is most at stake. Angry little Greta is a pawn in this story to point fingers and blame a previous generation, forgetting her world is filled with plastics from the oil industry that make it possible for her to get the message out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,112 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I think I'm starting to see the underlying mood music of this thread.

    Basically anybody who has the temerity to be outspoken on climate change and the environment can be shown to actually be a massive hypocrite and fraud for the simple reason that they [checks notes] have flown repeatedly in airplanes, driven cars, eaten meat, used the internet, heated their homes or any one of a myriad of other activities that pretty much anyone living in the 21st century has taken part in.

    So basically the only people who are allowed to raise concerns are people who are living off grid, in a tent next to a stream who don't actually own any of the technology used to voice their opinions in the modern age. Got it. Nice one lads.



  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    The whole world economy is built upon constant growth. When you stop that will the Greens have jobs for all the airline employees let go. How about all the tourism employees let go, how about all the beef farmers, how about all the people working in factory's worldwide making electronics, all the retail workers let go because there's nothing to sell, etc.. etc...

    It's all well and good saying we want to save the planet but unless you have an alternative source of income for literally billions of people worldwide then you are just a waffler cleaning his glasses with a covid mask.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don’t know. Do you? But at some point it will.

    Renewable infrastructure will take additional resources (and hence additional CO2) to build, whether on a small domestic scale or a large national scale, but doesn’t mean that you don’t build it



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,701 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Pretty much this is why I voted Green, even though I disagree with many of their policies. Combatting climate change is the challenge of our generation, and we have to act, even if we personally don't like this.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,427 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i mean, they've never been alive joe. they don't even know what money is. they don't understand life, can barely recognise another human being.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭yrreg0850




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,112 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    "The whole world economy is built upon constant growth" - and that's the problem. The world was able to grow exponentially when there was lots of spare capacity but now we're starting to hit the boundaries of that way of life. We can't continue to pump greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, dump plastic in the oceans, destroy forests and habitats and the rates that we have been if we want to continue to have a livable planet for as many of its inhabitants as possible.


    As for your other point. Yes there will have to be changes in the jobs that people do in this world. When the motorcar was invented they didn't pause sales while they waited until all of the blacksmiths and farriers who were losing out to be re-employed. Some of them adapted and some of them likely didn't.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,427 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    "It's all well and good saying we want to save the planet but unless you have an alternative source of income for literally billions of people worldwide then you are just a waffler cleaning his glasses with a covid mask."

    and here's the rub. we shouldn't try to save the planet because economics.

    anyway, beef farmers earn their living primarily from subsidies. it's not an efficient way of producing food at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    our whole approach to economics is completely fcuked, most of it based on pure bullsh1t ideas and beliefs



  • Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭FitzElla


    The problem is that the projected temperature increases and resulting weather systems will severely impact the lives of the same billions of people regardless. I agree the changes required and the challenges are almost impossible but we can either dictate how it happens, or let the climate run wild and nature will dictate how it happens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,067 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Ah the modern Green thing is not anti growth. They want industry alright now - Green Growth - hear Eamon Ryan going on about how Ireland can be a world leader in developing wind technology and so on. Very different from the original Greens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,343 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    I see the UK have scrapped the fuel duty rise in their budget today, some sense, no chance of that here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,067 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Feck off and take some responsibility for YOUR expectations and demands. That's not how we grew up by & large.

    It's this generation that is very demanding of resources.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,299 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ah shur thats just another sign of the decline of the uk...



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,427 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    petrol hit its highest price ever in the UK a few days ago.



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