Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings

astrofool · 27-10-2021 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080764#Comment_118080764

They don't know and that's the problem, they (govt and NPHET) watch the pattern, change restrictions, then wait and see what the effect is, they don't want to roll back restrictions so they will be cautious opening up which means arbitrary rules for arbitrary things to reduce the opportunity for the virus to spread. The unvaccinated are driving up a lot of the hospitalisations, if it keeps on continuing then elective surgeries will be stopped (already happening) and private hospitals will start being used causing more pressure on the healthcare system and making queues worse, so it will be extra cautious.

But the numbers that matter are hospitalisations, not cases, the unvaccinated 10% are making up a huge proportion of that so reducing their freedom keeps the numbers down while allowing everyone else to go relatively unrestricted.

foxsake · 27-10-2021 3:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080725#Comment_118080725

i consider the use of the label "misinformation" to be merely a slur against somebody who doesn't agree with you or doesn't accept the official narrative from government or media.

I've rarely seen it used otherwise. It's used similarly to words like anti vaxxer / racist/homophobe/ nazi etc.. which are thrown around willy-nilly with fcuk all context so that it eventually they have no meaning.

I may be a conspiracy theorist - I don't know nor care . labels are irrelevant to me cos as explained they are only tool used to shout down people.

astrofool · 27-10-2021 4:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080792#Comment_118080792

All that matters is the hospitalisations, a high % of these are unvaccinated, keep the virus away from these people and the numbers don't go as high, it's that simple.

27-10-2021 4:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080757#Comment_118080757

But astrofool, what's "We'll get rid of the remaining restrictions and passes when the hospitalisations from Covid start dropping and stay dropping" based on? When has it ever been said that that would be the case? When has either the government or NPHET said that normal life would resume? All I've read or heard is a 'semblamce of normality' or a 'degree of normality'.

SupplyandDemandZone · 27-10-2021 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080356#Comment_118080356

Thankfully my local don't ask for the cert and nor should they as i've spent thousands there over the years. Got asked this morning at costa though and told them i'm vaccinated but won't be producing my cert and they wouldn't serve me. Fair enough i just bought a cup of coffee and a slice of pecan in Centra.

astrofool · 27-10-2021 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080789#Comment_118080789

The scientific foundation is that you're 12x more likely to end up in ICU if you catch COVID when unvaccinated, that ICU bed will be fighting to save your life and there is a limited capacity in ICU that when reached mean people die who would have lived if they got treatment.

27-10-2021 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080757#Comment_118080757

Why would next Winter be any different to the situation we're in now?

In other words, what will change between now and next Winter to enable us to permanently scrap discrimination passes and restrictions in Feb/March, as per your post.

foxsake · 27-10-2021 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080757#Comment_118080757

a fair argument , but given covid is everywhere and the vaccines at best blunt it effects but not the infection.

everybody is going to be exposed eps this christmas - be it in niteclub or house party unless you are a hermit.

The same number will be positive as with no restrictions or with restrictions.

the 10% non vaxxed (which btw includes recovered who didn't take it) - aren't the cause.

Penfailed · 27-10-2021 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080817#Comment_118080817

I've been lead to believe that my local checks now and again but ironically, when it gets busy, they don't!

astrofool · 27-10-2021 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080813#Comment_118080813

When the pandemic is over, we're currently in the middle of the pandemic, when the pandemic is over, the restrictions drop, pandemics take years typically and it's either let lots of people die or restrictions. I think it will be pretty much over by spring (mostly because of vaccines) but I could be wrong and it will take longer. The fact that most restrictions have dropped is an indication that those remaining will also drop (and some countries are completely dropping them already, some accepting a higher death count to do so).

astrofool · 27-10-2021 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080822#Comment_118080822

Hospitalisations will have dropped, viral treatments will be coming online, 5-11 year olds will probably be getting vaccinated, the waves of infections will have mostly passed and the virus will no longer be that novel to humans and normality will resume.

SupplyandDemandZone · 27-10-2021 4:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080832#Comment_118080832

It's all a load of nonsense tbh. If there's any spot checks fellas will just say my phone battery is dead and i can't produce the cert. I'd say there will be some checks in popular pubs and clubs in Dublin the next few weekends and that be that. It's just a measure to appease the curtain twitchers

astrofool · 27-10-2021 4:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080825#Comment_118080825

When 10% are taking up 50% of beds, they are a pretty big part of the cause, if we decided just not to treat the unvaccinated (not going to happen, but let's pretend) then we could probably drop all remaining restrictions, including certs, tomorrow.

If we were dealing with Alpha, we'd be at herd immunity by now, Delta changed the maths whether we like it or not.

Healio · 27-10-2021 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080849#Comment_118080849

There is an interesting point you raise there about Herd Immunity from Alpha, did natural immunity from Alpha exposure actually lead to the fall of cases and not the magical vaccines, seeing as we are all pretending.

charlie14 · 27-10-2021 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080799#Comment_118080799

Misinformation is false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately used to deceive, so I do get your point. I can see why people who post it would rather not to be challenged on it.

JDD · 27-10-2021 4:21pm

Unless we increase hospital capacity, it looks we will have restrictions forever. It appears that the virus is in no hurry to mutate into something less dangerous - if anything it is mutating to be become more infectious rather than less. And it seems that even with 90% of the 12+ people vaccinated, the virus is still so infectious that opening fully would mean that our capacity in hospitals is not such that we can deal with the hospitalisations.

If we want to return to the world pre-March 2020, we have to do two things. One, absorb the risk of catching and suffering badly from covid into all the other risks we absorb on a daily basis, and build and staff new hospitals, including rehab facilities for those severely suffering from long covid.

As depressing as it is, I expect rolling restrictions for the next five years, until governments catch up and fully understand what needs to be done.

foxsake · 27-10-2021 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080849#Comment_118080849

we have no idea why the unvaccinated are in hospital - are they terminally ill unable to take vaccine yet test positive - remember they are tested regularly in hospital. How many are pregnant women in hospital who chose (rightly imo) not to risk it?these scenarios are exception cases and not general population stuff. We can all obscure by the use of words.

Hospital can mean anything just like the deaths from covid can by their own admission mean anything.

Now for the numbers - the numbers quoted of late in the media are based on a document issued recently by HPSC issued 18/10 - can't link - but title is ....

Vaccination status of COVID-19 cases admitted to ICU in Ireland between April 1 st 2021 and October 16th 2021

we all know - or we should know cos its paramount knowledge - that ireland hit 50% fully vaccinated on the 21st july only. so data before that date is skewed.

It's lumping data from when most people didn't have a vaccine and lumping it into the 10% nay-sayer cohort (which is current in oct2021)

That's dishonest in the extreme.

the examiner had an article a week ago - headline - Two-thirds of Covid ICU patients are unvaccinated..wow that looks bad...until you read the article

The Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC) published an analysis of the ICU admissions of Covid patients between June 27 and October 2.

Of the 258 admissions during this period, 149 were unvaccinated, while 14 had received just one dose out of a two-dose course.

The vaccination status of 13 admissions was unknown, while the remaining ICU patients were fully vaccinated.

well fcuk me - numbers before the 50%majority threshold was reached and now lumped into the current situation.

and I even set the threshold low at 50% which I think is generous.

that's fcuking MISINFORMATION for you. real misinformation.

27-10-2021 4:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080739#Comment_118080739

The idea that one should not be required back up their views appears to have become endemic here now. Repeatedly ignoring and attempting to ridicule warranted questions as to the source of blatantly false information is the norm here now

You are entitled to your own opinion, just not your own facts.

27-10-2021 4:35pm

Obviously, going to a nightclub is something that impacts on more than just yourself as it increases the risk of you becoming seriously ill and blocking a bed from someone who hasn't gone to nightclubs.

I expect the daily briefings to incorporate within the information provided the figures for people who've gone to a nightclub and subsequently been hospitalised/admitted to ICU (I'm ok if they obscure any underlying basis for their illness that is nothing to do with Covid-19, why should this data be treated as a special use case).

Further, now that nightclubs have been permitted to re-open etc. anybody who has been in one should, at the end of the night as they leave, be stamped in prominent, luminous, indelible ink, to the centre of their forehead, with a brand/logo of the place they have entered, to allow those of us who follow Dr Holohan's advice that we should avoid being in their company to know of their irresponsible and socially unacceptable conduct.

Helpfully, I understand nightclubs already have the necessary technology and training to implement this safeguard.

Captain Barnacles · 27-10-2021 4:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080900#Comment_118080900

Twisting the nipple clamps there ...

bokale · 27-10-2021 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080686#Comment_118080686

You've been hiding under the bed for the last 6 months?

bokale · 27-10-2021 4:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080817#Comment_118080817

You could have done the same in Costa? Or are you allowed sit in Centras now?

bokale · 27-10-2021 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080832#Comment_118080832

I've had a god few times now where I'm asked do I have it and then they forget to check it they are so busy. And you'll see them checking others when they remember. Must be a nuisance working at all. Even without the passes just all the table service and the rules. Fair play to them.

astrofool · 27-10-2021 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080878#Comment_118080878

No, the % infected with Alpha was too low for this to happen, there has also been more variant to variant reinfection occurring.

Are you claiming the vaccines don't work?

Red Silurian · 27-10-2021 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080787#Comment_118080787

I'm just making sure. So am I correct in saying you would prefer to see businesses breaking the law?

I mean we know our hospital situation is not good at the moment but why do you want to risk making it worse?

27-10-2021 4:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081021#Comment_118081021

It depends on what you mean by work, and vaccine.

"Immunologist Dr Kingston Mills, a professor at Trinity College Dublin, said that the Covid-19 vaccines were “very good” at preventing severe disease but cases of “vaccine breakthroughs” where the vaccinated get infected showed the vaccines were not inducing “sterilising immunity.”

He said he did not understand the reluctance in Ireland to accept there was waning immunity from vaccines and that there was a need “to boost our own population” with third doses."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus/doctors-warn-of-fairly-rough-winter-ahead-due-to-covid-19-1.4711778

astrofool · 27-10-2021 4:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081029#Comment_118081029

COVID Cert or not is all that's needed.

Emergency healthcare won't be denied to anyone no matter how they got themselves to that position.

Lifting all restrictions and removing cert mandates would likely push the system to breaking points and lead to a lot of people dying waiting for bed availability (as happens every year but generally not as fatal).

Laurenf35 · 27-10-2021 4:53pm

They should bring in a dancing license

Like a driver license

Save all the hassle

27-10-2021 4:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081054#Comment_118081054

I'm relieved to hear that people dying waiting for bed availability happens every year but generally not as fatal. I thought that kind of thing was fatal.

astrofool · 27-10-2021 4:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081053#Comment_118081053

Do vaccines work?

They reduce severe disease dramatically, give people long lasting protection with B and T-Cell memory, provide high levels of antibodies post vaccination that takes a relatively long time (~1 year) to wane completely (as happens with other coronavirus antibodies), reduce the chances of being infected, reduce the chances of passing on the virus if infected and clear the infection faster than if you hadn't had a vaccine, if a booster is taken, antibody levels return to the previous very high level, they remove the n in novel Coronavirus for everyone who gets vaccinated.

So, do they work?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings