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GAA need to step up

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,583 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    God, i'd hate to live my life in constant fear like some of the people on here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,345 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    downcow, I always think you are genuine in what you are saying. It doesn't mean I agree with you but I think it brings value in the sense of being from a different perspective.

    The issue here is the responsibility on the sporting organisation. I don't think they need to get involved here more than they did. You think that they do.

    My understanding is that it was organised against their wishes by a ostensibly political grouping who have claimed to have no links to terrorist groups. The GAA club issued a statement in advance that they had given no permission and that there would be no event.

    The gimps turned up anyway and trespassed to have their fancy dress parade, all while under the watchful eye of the police.

    They are not a proscribed organisation. For the GAA to come out and decide to make a big deal about it because of what is (reasonably) assumed to be the groups links to other organisations would then place an onus on the GAA to do similar for other groups. It would basically amount to them having to make political declarations about groups and individuals - often due to links that, while perhaps accepted to be true by the majority of people, aren't proven to the extent that you could safely state it and not leave yourself open to a prosecution for defamation. I think the GAA should stay out of that. In the event of someone trespassing the only mechanisms open to them are (1) to ask them to leave & (2) to call the police.

    If it was a proscribed organisation, then they could and should make more of a deal about it. The fancy dress gimps are, on the face of it, legally entitled to exist. It is, technically and legally, just an issue of trespass. Had they given permission for the event, they would have to be more accountable. But they gave no such permission, or any support that I can see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    That’s a reasonable position for you to take but there are a few assumption/facts that lead me to disagree with you.

    the GAA have a lot of baggage and current behaviour that leads most in the unionist community to see them as republicans at play. I disagree with that simplistic view but understand the reasons for people to hold it.

    this event by the mouthpieces of terrorist killers and including people in paramilitary dress, actually presented an opportunity to the GAA.

    was it more important for the GAA not to offend extreme republicans in its membership or reach out to moderate unionists who are beginning to dip their toe into the organisation. They chose the former. I am quite sure it is an embarrassment down the pub for anyone in east Belfast who has decided to get involved in the GAA - but they will need to get well used to that cause there will be more coming for sure.

    here’s the irony. It’s more comfortable not to have our beliefs challenged. The GAA let us all of the hook and give us plenty of reason to reinforce our beliefs about the organisation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,578 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'll ask this again, probably in vain. Your premise is now based on the 'GAA being afraid to offend extreme republicans in it's ranks' (the sinister insinuations again)

    Who was the GAA President being sensitive about when he said this about a dissident killing on Tyrone GAA's website? Take your time spinning it downcow as I am sure you will attempt to.

    It is difficult to comprehend how a young man with the best interests of our community at heart and who contributed so positively to our community could be attacked in this way. His death demeans humanity and is detrimental to the development of a shared future based on mutual respect. In a rights conscious society there is no greater right than the right to life and the need to protect it.

    The GAA has a long standing and publicly stated policy of opposition to violence.




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,265 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    And people wonder how it would go if Sinn Fein got into government down here...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    This was great. This was in reference to the murder of one of their own members. It all becomes a tad difficult when a similar organisation uses their premises without condemnation



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,578 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You didn't say (predictably) who the President was being sensitive to.

    Your premise is that the GAA was trying to be sensitive.


    By the way, it was in reference to something that involved them, a member. The parade didn't have anything to do with them.

    I googled a good bit and failed to find a statement from the IFA on the killing of Ronan Kerr...which is completely ok, as it had nothing to do with them. Fairly sure nobody opened a thread to have a rant about the IFA either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,345 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Well I don't agree that it had anything to do with 'not wanting to offend" anyone. Any offence that was going to be given was already given when the club publicly announced in advance that they had given no permission and that the advertised event was nothing to do with them and would not be going ahead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,578 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    It is clear the original words were chosen carefully not to offend. They did not condemn the group or the unknown individual for advertising that the event was happening on their premises. They also made zero attempt to prevent it. One word to the parades commission would have sorted it.

    this community is well practiced in how to use the PC to alter parade routes. They know how easy it is.

    what is amazing to me is how some people are using as a defence that we don’t know for sure that the local GAA are representative of the local nationalist/republican community. They are arguing that there may be none of those 3,000 people who are involved in the gaa 😂



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,345 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    downcow, what jurisdiction do the PC have over gatherings of gimps on private property? Can they, for example, regulate meetings of members of Orange lodges that take place 100% on the Lodge's property?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,578 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What did I say about another 'pivot' incoming.

    I have asked you again and again here what are you basing the 'Parades Commission' stuff on? Is this another 'guess'?

    If the GAA could get the PC to act with 'one word', how come the PSNI didn't utter 'one word'?

    You are huffing and puffing and bluffing here. Put up some backup to your allegations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,415 ✭✭✭Choochtown


    "It is clear the original words were chosen carefully not to offend. They did not condemn the group or the unknown individual for advertising that the event was happening on their premises. They also made zero attempt to prevent it. One word to the parades commission would have sorted it.

    this community is well practiced in how to use the PC to alter parade routes. They know how easy it is.

    what is amazing to me is how some people are using as a defence that we don’t know for sure that the local GAA are representative of the local nationalist/republican community. They are arguing that there may be none of those 3,000 people who are involved in the gaa 😂"


    Who are "they" downcow?

    GAA committee members?

    GAA members in general?

    Bellaghy Wolfe Tones GAA members?

    Residents of Bellaghy?


    or just all Taigs in general?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,415 ✭✭✭Choochtown




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    The first three ‘they’d’ are the GAA. The last one is some posters on here, yourself included. Sorry if my grammar is not great



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,578 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Is there any point asking you to back up how you know about communications with the Parades Commission? Where are they published or are you just guessing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I’m not guessing anything. I am simply saying that if the owners of a facility contacted the parades commission and said we don’t want that dissent parade coming onto our premises, they would not let them on.

    secondly if there were complaints about it then it would be considered controversial. It wasn’t.

    no of this is rocket science



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,578 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What?

    If you complain the PC will take action in your favour? Where is this stated?

    There are many complaints made to the PC about parades and some still go ahead after deliberation.

    You are spoofing again IMO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You are spinning and twisting again. I didn’t say things always go in favour of complainants.

    I said if you own facilities and you alert the PC to the fact that a dissident parade intends using your facilities and you don’t want them to, then the PC will 100% determin to that fact and the Psni will be tasked with upholding that determination.

    every person in the north knows this to be the case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,578 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,345 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    you probably know a lot more about the PC than me downcow, but I had the impression that it was resolving disputes for actual parades i.e. in public areas or along the street, rather than anything on private property. I am open to correction but I don't think they would have power in this scenario.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    (As far as I know) you are correct ie They would not have the power to intervene on private property but they handle these situations very simply. If the GAA told them that they did not want this parade on their premises and that it would affect community relations (which it clearly does) they would impose a starting point maybe 100m away from club and specify where the parade would form up. Therefore the parade would be illegal the moment it exited the GAA premises unto the public road



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,578 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Still no backup on the PC offering that service.

    The parade could have been pronounced illegal the moment the GAA stated they had no permission to be there. What did the PSNI do?

    Zilch.

    Your issue is therefore first and foremost with the PSNI. The GAA are not and should not be expected to be the police.

    Here is an incident where a parade (with men in balaclavas) was pronounced illegal by the PSNI before it started (and even during the event.)

    No action there either.




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You are just playing games now. I am not interested in continually telling you that it was nothing to do with the Psni as the PC had not ruled. And well you know I am not asking the GAA to police it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,578 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Here is the notification to the Parades Commission from the PC website.

    A notified and legal parade.

    The PC had ruled downcow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Your nitpicking words francie. You know what I meant. They hadn’t imposed restrictions is what I meant. It wasn’t disputed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,578 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    How do you know this downcow?

    The fact is you don't. The fact is it was a legal parade without conditions other that the general guidelines (also available on the PC website). The fact is the GAA clearly said that the parade was trespassing.(under the remit of the police, not the PC) And the fact is the PSNI ignored that like they ignored the illegal parade Doug Beattie was at. So EVEN if the PC had made a condition of not using the carpark, the PSNI would have stood by watching anyway.

    I know you don't like it, but those are the facts as we know them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    The fact is that you don’t know the GAA reported this group as trespassing. Could you provide your evidence.

    your approach to this thread really quite sad. I have challenged the GAA on their lack of courage to take on the sectarian bully boys. Can I say their approach in general is much more progressive than yours as demonstrated on this thread



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,578 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I don't know, which is why I never claimed they did. You on the other hand have been guessing all the way through.

    The GAA issued a statement to say the parade had no permission to use the carpark. Are you saying the PSNI missed this?

    Are you saying the PSNI would have intervened when there is clear and undeniable evidence in front of you that they didn't intervene in a parade that had no permission from the get go?

    The GAA are not the police. The parade was legal, they did their bit by making clear that the carpark was being used without permission. After that it was up to the people who are tasked with upholding the law.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,588 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Francie I am losing the will to engage with you on this. You are being wilfully rediculous.

    the Psni had zero right to intervene. You are seriously suggesting that if an owner of a premises posts on social media that someone has not asked for permission to use the facilities, that the Psni should roll in in force to ensure they ask 🙄.

    tresspass is a civil matter.

    if the GAA had any desire to prevent the use of their facilities by the dissidents for a parade, then everyone in NI knows the effective channel ie representation to the Parades Commission.

    so really, it’s now getting tiresome. The facts are simple.

    the dissidents (linked to Lyra McKee murder) give notice, to the PC and to their fans on social media, that they were using ballaghy gac for upcoming parade

    gac confirmed they were fully aware of this and said they were not asked for permission and unbelievably said there was only GAA events happening that day. GAA did not say they didn’t want the event to take place or that the republican paramilitaries should stay away

    event took place as planned with a paramilitary display on the GAA premises

    the Psni had no authority or indeed rational or reason to act unless the owners told them that they did not want the parade using their premises.

    Some here are again defending the clearly indefensible. Their hatred for all things unionist blinds them from being rational or reasonable. It’s just “”we republicans are angels and never do anything wrong and you unionists are devilish and rarely do anything decent””. Very hard to build a shared society with this approach from a large proportion of the shinners.



This discussion has been closed.
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