Did water saving toilet designs wasting billions of litres of water in Ireland

Yellow_Fern · 12-10-2021 8:42pm #1

I saw this fascinating article after I noticed a leak in a dual flush toilet in a new build (in Ireland) which I realised was constantly dribbling water, unlike the toilets I grew up with. Is this an issue in Ireland and where is the law?

"Billions of litres of water are being wasted every week because of an innovation intended to cut water use.

About 400 million litres (88 million gallons) of water are estimated to leak from UK toilets every day.

But much of this can be blamed on dual-flush toilets, designed to save water, the BBC has learned.

One water company says dual-flush toilets are now wasting more water than they save due to a combination of leaky mechanisms and confusing flush buttons.

Dual-flush toilets allow the option of a small or large flush - typically four or six litres - to only use the water necessary for urine or faeces.

Water-saving organisation Waterwise estimates that between 5% and 8% of toilets are leaking and says most of these are dual flush."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54326178

Capt'n Midnight · 13-10-2021 8:52am

The problem is not the type of toilet, it's the flush mechanism. The solution is simple, go back to using siphons. Pythagoras was using them about 500 BC in a device that wouldn't leak until needed. And stop changing long term health and safety regulations to suit manufacturers just because they say "this time it'll be different" hard evidence is needed :mad:

For the small flush just have an opening higher up or second siphon.

Cuddlesworth · 13-10-2021 9:05am

If only there was some sort of solution, like a water metering device that would let people know their potable water was being wasted.

I'd say the article is accurate, I had Irish water contact me saying I had a significant leak and they would send somebody out to investigate. I started before they arrived and found both toilets had faulty valves with water pissing down the back of the toilet. Last owner of the house had half closed valves so it was less noticeable rather then fix it. They are 2 years later, starting to leak again.

odyssey06 · 13-10-2021 9:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012652#Comment_118012652

It's a UK article, so surprising IW were more pro-active on this than UK where metering is in place.

spaceHopper · 13-10-2021 9:16am

We've a pumped cold water system at home and the toilets drive me nuts, the pump is always running or kicking in every so often. The button on the toilet upstairs sticks and nobody but me notices the noise of the pump or the tank in the attic filling. With the pump it can fly through 50 or more liters of waters in 10 minutes. Then there is the drip when the gasket at the bottom doesn't make a good seal, flush it again. That causes the pump to run every couple of minutes. It's simply a bad design. They all have smaller tanks so just have a single flush that works.

Yellow_Fern · 13-10-2021 8:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012699#Comment_118012699

I paid a plumber to fit a new valve. I happy to fork out for it but I love a more permanent low maintenance solution. I had previously thought about a fancy wall hung toilet but wont now considering that just makes maintenance harder. Id love to know what causes the valve to fail. I notice a lot of toilets have steel bolts that generate a lot of rust which might impair the valve sealing.

spaceHopper · 14-10-2021 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016510#Comment_118016510

The flush unit is about 27 euros in Smallmans in Renelagh they twist off and new one clips back on not tools needed. Might bite the bullet on the toilet upstairs, I cleaned out the button and if it isn't fixed I'll have to

Yellow_Fern · 15-10-2021 5:16pm

It seems so hard to balance function, and water savings. Did anyone ever look into getting a small cistern suspended high in the bathroom for extra gravity power? Maybe in attic

Zirconia · 15-10-2021 5:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118025224#Comment_118025224

That's how they used to be in the olden days:

15-10-2021 5:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118025306#Comment_118025306

But they were replaced with 'better' ones

Sam Russell · 26-10-2021 11:42am

The simplest design for a toilet flushing system I have seen is unbelievably simple.

The cistern is much as is generally used in any toilet with a filling ballcock and a large hole at the bottom going to the pan. The flush is achieved using, for all intents, a ball like a tennis ball with a string threaded through it. The ball normally sits blocking the hole, but when the string is pulled, it floats up to the top of the water in the cistern. The water is now free to flush the toilet, and when its gone, the ball closes the hole and the water fills the cistern until the ballcock closes. Simplicity itself.

A more sophisticated version uses a pipe with a rubber doughnut moulded onto it near the lower point which blocks the hole. The pipe is pulled up to flush but the design copes with overfill by allowing the excess water to empty down the pipe. Simple, cheap, and effective.

My current toilet has a silent filler valve which required replacing after about five years, and the bottom seal required replacing after about eight years. Both jobs were simple and require simple tools, or just twist and remove to replace.

A bit like keeping your plumbing outside the house so you can get at it easily when it freezes.

L1011 · 26-10-2021 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012675#Comment_118012675

UK providers are getting paid for all the leaks beyond the meter. IW currently aren't getting paid for anything.

Yellow_Fern · 28-10-2021 2:37pm

I have dug more into this issue, and what I have learned have fuelled any annoyance of the problem. My own WCs have bolts at the bottom of the cistern, which are getting rusty. Heavy flushes disturb the water near the bolts enough to drive rust particles into the drop valve, interrupting the rubber seal and causing leaks. Older toilets only seem to have metal fixings above the waterline. A plumber explained that these bolts often rust so severely that the bolts have been sawn to alter the toilet. It is just designed to fail, unlike older toilets. I am going to attempt to remove rust and give the bolts a coat of Hammerite to extend their life. It is a hassle as the paint won't set unless dry for an extended period, but worth trying.

ednwireland · 28-10-2021 2:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074361#Comment_118074361

simplest i have seen was staying in a village in the atlas mountains, you C**p in a gully next to the village, in the morning a guy goes to the top of the gully an opens a sluice which washes everything down onto the fields full of crops below - simples

ednwireland · 28-10-2021 2:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085953#Comment_118085953

Titanium bolts ? just dont overtighten them - usually get them on ebay. used some titanium self tappers on a steel chimney wherre the screws kept getting eaten away never a problem after that

Sam Russell · 28-10-2021 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074379#Comment_118074379

Not entirely true. If the usage is low - like average, a fixed charge applies. To get off the fixed charge, a meter is installed at your cost and then meter rates apply. For most users, they cannot win - but usage is not charged per litre.

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Did water saving toilet designs wasting billions of litres of water in Ireland

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