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Michael D Higgins insists he is President of Ireland, refuses to commemorate partition

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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Roger Ashy Squadron


    Britain = England & Wales

    Great Britain = Britain & Scotland

    United Kingdom = Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

    People from Scotland (and indeed N. Ireland) are therefore technically and indeed factually not 'British'.

    And finally

    British Isles = Something that winds the Republicans up a whole lot (added specially to not disappoint Francie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,854 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It doesn't 'wind me up' at all. It is hilarious actually when somebody tries to rely on what is an historical artefact from British Empire days and no longer in official use anywhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Britain or Great Britain can be used to refer to the island.


    The Act of Britain was the merging of England and Wales and the Act of Great Britain was merging Scotland to it. But these were political acts.the island is known in geographical terms as both Great Britain and Britain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭BKelly21


    Oh dear. If this is the poor grasp you have on things, no wonder you have such misconceptions and understanding of things in Ireland.

    Saint Patrick is the patron saint of the island of Ireland, it doesn't matter if you are Catholic, Protestant, Jewish or Hindu.

    Trying to make a "them v us" issue over it is very telling from yourself, but sadly not surprising.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    As an atheist firmly in the Nationalist camp who doesn't celebrate St Patrick's Day, with family from both Protestant and Catholic faiths I genuinely don't know how anyone could make an argument that Saint Patrick isn't the patron Saint of Ireland.

    Given that Saint Patrick predates the reformation by around a millennium and partition by almost half of that again, I certainly have no idea how anyone could make his status as Patron Saint of the island into a Catholic/Protestant issue.

    It's even more amusing when one realises the Church of Ireland and the DUP have both tried to claim he was a Protestant.

    We certainly won't mention the Saint Patrick's Saltire....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    What I don't get is why you would think a geographical label like British Isles should wind anyone up? Look at Africa. Numerous countries, yet you wouldn't call an Egyptian an African and so on but they would agree to be from the continent.

    Some people need to grow up I suppose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    First of all, we all know what predictions mean.

    Secondly, as per the article, religious affiliation means nothing about the political outlook of a UI

    Lastly, a majority is a misnomer as a majority means greater than 50% not one is greater than the other


    The rest of your post is word salad in order to appear clever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Yes, I am rattled against some nonexistent figures and statistics.

    Tell us Blazz, weren't you the person saying that killing in the name of Ireland wasn't a crime?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    As we all know, as per the GFA one has a right to be called British or Irish or both if they are from NI. So your geographic facts don't apply to NI, we all know that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    So, what do we call these two islands then?

    Learn your geography Francie.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,854 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ha, hoist by your own petard as they say.

    You were the one a few posts ago who let the mask slip on 'political affiliations' being married to what religion you are. It comes back to bite you now.

    People will need to convince these people in the North, especially this 3rd block who do not identify themselves as Catholic or Protestant


    Some chancer.

    A Catholic majority is predicted at the next census.(back up link provided from the BBC) I don't think Blaaz claimed there was one now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Word salad continues....

    Do you even read people's posts anymore, or just have something ready to copy and paste in.... just to keep the argument going.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,854 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ireland and Great Britain.

    The term hasn't been used officially by your own government in decades and the British one certainly does not use in dealing with us.

    I challenged blanch to find me a modern map with the designation on it and the best he could do was one from 1958 if I remember correctly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Considering that you haven't noticed that image has the name of the state you live in wrong, I'm not surprised that you don't see a problem with it.

    I'd refer to those two landmasses as, 'Britain and Ireland' myself. I don't see much use for the term British Isles.

    I certainly think the term has roots in the old mentality of British ownership of Ireland though I take no real offense at its use by those who have culturally grown to use the term.

    Much like I don't feel the need to use an all encompassing historical term that describes Germany and Austria, I don't feel we need a term to describe the United Kingdom and Ireland to insinuate they are one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,854 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Your words, own them.

    You connected constitutional change (or not) to religious affiliation, not I. I know you might not want to see your mask slipping, but here it is again>


    People will need to convince these people in the North, especially this 3rd block who do not identify themselves as Catholic or Protestant

    3 blocks - those who do not identify as (1) Catholic or Protestant and (2) Catholics and (3) Protestants.

    What other way is there to understand that comment?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    You mean the Republic of Ireland should be called Eire or just Ireland. I guess they use the Republic form to differentiate it from the geographic name Ireland.

    People get overly sensitive to names. The term 'British Isles' has been around a lot longer than recent Irish Nationalism.

    Like it or not, we are both an archipelago off Western Europe. I've heard some say 'Anglo-Irish archipelago'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users Posts: 68,854 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Which one did you leave out when you asked me to name 'these two islands'?


    So, what do we call these two islands then?

    Maybe read back your posts before trying to appear smart? 😉



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The archipelago Francie. Banal comments aside, you know what I am on about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,854 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's not hard Mark, the islands have names.

    in 2005 this was discussed in the Dail. The Foreign Minister said: The British Isles is not an officially recognised term in any legal or inter-governmental sense.

    So carry on using it Mark, I know you want to.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    "Islands have names"

    Yes, and the archipelago that we are, along with Great Britain and the Isle of Man is called the "British Isles".



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,854 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Find me a modern map that shows the British Isles.

    Give it up Mark, it is an anachronistic name, no longer in use by anyone who wants to be accurate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    If we're writing in English then yes, it should just be Ireland.....as that is the name of our state.

    People certainly can be sensitive about names, particularly when someone is clearly using it to goad. I made a post in passing specifically stating that the term doesn't particularly offend me but pointing out that your supposed source contained more than one terminological mistake and therefore probably wasn't a particularly useful bit of evidence when discussing terminology, so I don't really get what relevance that has to my post though?

    What sort of nonsense is, "the term has been around longer than recent Irish Nationalism" though?! Presumably you're just trying to get a dig in at Irish Nationalists as usual, but what purpose does the word recent have in there? The term is older than anything recent....otherwise that thing wouldn't be recent, would it?! What is the cut off point for recent versus historic Irish Nationalism out of curiosity?

    Anglo-Irish archipelago sounds even worse than, 'British Isles' to my ear to be honest. Then again, as I said I take no great offense at the term, I just don't see much of a purpose to it that necessitates it any more than I see a purpose to having a catch-all term to describe Germany and Austria, or France and Switzerland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    The GFA did not make one iota difference to what someone wants to identify as Mark. I can Identify as being from Europe or the World both before and after the GFA. Show me any law that stops me from Identifying as either of those or anything else I want to identify as. Also I can refer to someone from Ireland as being Irish despite it not being their chosen identity. if They want to sue me for not referring to them in their chosen identity my defence would be that they are Irish by the fact they're from a place called Ireland which takes the demonym Irish.


    Regarding the GFA all it seems to have done is allow people in the north take both British and Irish citizenship (should these citizenship exist in the future). Everyone in the North are born British Citizens by law as it is part of the UK and the ROI has always allowed anyone born in the north claim citizenship to her. So all the GFA from a legal perspective seems to have done is to stop the ROI from ever not offering citizenship to people in the North which it was not obliged to do as it does not have jurisdiction over it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    The Archipelago is a geographical feature and the name that seems to have stuck is the British Isles. I have no problem with this and think it is a bit petty for people not to accept this. Remember it was the Romans that actually named Britain. By the way a demoym would not be British but ''British islanders'' Untill I just wrote this phrase I have never once herd a person being referred to as a British Islander. British means you are from Britain the Island. When people from the north say they're British they're usually referring to the fact that their ancestors a few hundred years before came from Britain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    "People get overly sensitive to names".

    Indeed. (Says the man who had a meltdown about the name "partitionist"). 😂

    Post edited by McMurphy on


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,225 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    The French description of Ireland always seemed the most apt to me, as in "L'île derrière l'île"

    And that reflects our real position in relation to Europe and the EU and matters pertaining.

    You can't escape geography and geography heavily impacts on history. No escape.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Isn't that for Madagascar?

    I've never heard Ireland being referred to as that before tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,854 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ha, the old European colonial derision of Mercator's Projection.

    I think Brexit showed that your distance from the EU/Europe is all in the mind, and it was to the forefront of the Brexiteer minds who thought they could use that old idea of geography to use us, isolate us and cut us off.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Why would a geographical term have or need any legal or inter-governmental recognition?



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