Should we in Ireland be concerned about Jihad?

29-10-2021 10:16am

It's a pity that the most significant meaning of jihad as a battle against evil and corruption within oneself has been hijacked by extremists and is now lost in the melee that results. Understood in this forgotten sense, jihad is a concept we should always be concerned about and interested in as a potential tool for self-improvement. :)

nullzero · 29-10-2021 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088802#Comment_118088802

Saudia Arabian Interpretation of islamic doctrine?

How I laughed. The reason the interpretation of Islamic doctrine is so extreme in Saudi Arabia is because they seek to return to the original interpretation of Islamic doctrine which is inherently extreme. They do not observe any modernisation of Islam and reject outright any attempts to modernize the faith.

You have repeatedly asked me for evidence of the mistreatment of women and the LGBTQ community in Islam(said evidence was provided and then dismissed out of hand by you) , you have been condescending and overtly rude whenever you have been asked to answer a question, you even asked me the same question I asked you on one occasion, and you still didn't answer it yourself after I answered it for you.

I never said that all Muslims are responsible for the actions that oppress women or the LGBTQ community in Islam, I have made this extremely clear, in yet you're asking me if I think all catholics are responsible for the crimes committed by the catholic church. The catholic church can dissappear off the face of the earth for all I care, and all the other religions along with it.

I also never stated that you called me anything. What you have done is skew the discussion to attempt to make me appear to be a bigot (you have even done so in the above post asking me do I feel I qualify as Islamophobia, talk about a loaded question) yet you try to take the moral high ground and play dumb when your behavior is highlighted.

I have put one simple question to you repeatedly. You have failed to answer. What is your opinion on the treatment of women and the LGBTQ community within strict islamic doctrine?

You refuse to answer, going as far as to say it is a loaded question. It is a simple question which you refuse to address in the knowledge that answering it would undermine the position that you have taken on this topic.

I am attaching a screen grab from the YouTube video I linked here yesterday. I'm interested to k ow Robbie, do you take any issue whatsoever with the actions behind images like this?...

RobbieTheRobber · 29-10-2021 11:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088991#Comment_118088991

Nullzero you might want to hide your NSFW image I do not think it is appropriate for this forum. I have not reported your post but suggest you remove it before someone else does.

You seem to have a particular issue with Saudi Arabia. I am not sure how that nations laws directly impact on the likelihood of a jihad attack in Ireland.

So that I know we are not going off topic just to get onto your preferred discussion point (Saudi Arabi) can you please explain how the image above and the video you linked earlier which I have chosen not to view is related to the discussion of this thread.

Does viewing the image above or the video you linked in any way prove that a jihad attack is likely in Ireland and how does it do so?

nullzero · 29-10-2021 12:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089166#Comment_118089166

I have explained that at length Robbie.

The ideology that informs the modern interpretation of Jihad was spawned from Saudi Arabia so any Jihad terrorist attack has its roots in that country.

If you feel the image is too graphic by all means report the post, I was at pains to not to post anything graphic. The image does not depict anything that could be described as gore but it is distressing in terms of the intent it displays.

If anything that image has shaken you into a unintended admission that the actions that take place under strict islamic doctrine are abhorrent. To that end it serves it purpose.

Strict islamic doctrine that informs jihad terrorism on a day to day basis looks like what is presented in that image.

To be perfectly honest, I'm sick and tired of Saudi Arabia getting a pass for the role they have played in allowing jihadi terrorism to thrive. It's about time they were held to account for it and not to mention for the litany of human rights abuses they are guilty of.

When you try to separate Saudi Arabia from jihadi terrorism in the way you have been doin on this thread you are playing a part in down playing their responsibility, and in my opinion you should be ashamed of that.

jmreire · 29-10-2021 3:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088867#Comment_118088867

Jihad has always meant "Effort", and can be applied to any endeavor, war or peace. As when hardliners call for Jihad against the unbelievers, or for good examination results, or as a name for their sons.

nullzero · 29-10-2021 3:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118090192#Comment_118090192

I never stated that a potential jihadi terrorist attack in Ireland would be either funded or backed by Saudi Arabia. What I said, repeatedly was that the state of Saudi Arabia allows the ideology of wahhabism to thrive which informs the actions of jihadi terrorists.

I never once stated that all Muslims are terrorists and your stated position as being against the blaming of all Muslims for the actions of the few is moot as I never stated that, in fact I clearly stated that wasn't the case.

I have every right to stand up to someone who is attempting to tar me with the brush of Islamophobia, don't expect me to stop just because you feel it's not important. The cheek of you to even attempt to float that idea. It's the lowest form of ad hominem nonsense.

As for the potential of a jihadi attack in Ireland in relation to the numerous things you cited as potentially more pressing, that's all perfectly fine, but this thread is about Jihadi terror attacks, so by your logic your very presence on this thread is a paradox.

Identifying the problems within strict islamic doctrine is not the same as having a fear of Islam. This should be self evident but I've clarified for you again just to make sure you understand.

I also never stated that you are responsible for terrorism, that is an infantile interpretation of this discussion.

RobbieTheRobber · 29-10-2021 3:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118090523#Comment_118090523

You literally blamed terrorism on me and your upset because I believe you might suffer from islamophobia. 🤣

Here is two really scary emojis for you 👳‍♂️🧕

Fear

As opposed to being a psychological or individualistic phobia, according to professors of religion Peter Gottschalk and Gabriel Greenberg, "Islamophobia" connotes a social anxiety about Islam and Muslims.[47][48] Some social scientists have adopted this definition and developed instruments to measure Islamophobia in form of fearful attitudes towards, and avoidance of, Muslims and Islam,[49][50] arguing that Islamophobia should "essentially be understood as an affective part of social stigma towards Islam and Muslims, namely fear"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia#Fear

Fandymo · 29-10-2021 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082283#Comment_118082283

Jesus wept.

nullzero · 29-10-2021 4:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118090627#Comment_118090627

I literally never blamed you for terrorism. Show me actually blaming your terrorism as opposed to you misinterpreting what I said.

I said you were allowing Saudi Arabia off the hook for their role in enabling terrorism by refusing to condemn the behavior of the radical Islamic authorities in their country which allowed the creation of the ideology that leads to Islamic terrorism.

Maybe it's too much for you to follow? Or are you just going out of your way to provoke an angry response?

jmreire · 29-10-2021 7:05pm

The bottom line with jihadism ( in the case of killing the unbelievers ) is that it is legalized in the Quran. Not only that, but it is mandated as a response to certain actions ( perceived insulting of Islam being one ) and Muslims are bound to obey it ( ask Salman Rushdie ). The fact that the majority of Muslims do not engage in violence is neither here nor there...the fact that its available to any Muslim is what goes to the core of the problem. Just have a look at what is happening in Afghanistan at the moment..isis-k now ramping up their attacks on the Taliban ( they consider them to be unbelievers ) and all under the justification provided by the Quran. But there's one thing for sure, no one can guarantee that there will never be a jihadi attack here in Ireland.

Beasty · 29-10-2021 8:13pm

RobbieTheRobber and nullzero - back off or I will threadban one or both of you

Relax brah · 29-10-2021 10:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118091490#Comment_118091490

The Quran is not the issue and never has been. There are many different interpretations of it for example - Men having sex with each other should be punished, the Quran says, but it doesn't say how - and it adds that they should be left alone if they repent.

The death penalty instead comes from the Hadith, or accounts of the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad. The accounts differ on the method of killing, and some accounts give lesser penalties in some circumstances.

A number of Islamic scholars, mainly in the West, have started re-examining Islamic teaching on same-gender sex and have concluded that the blanket condemnation is a misinterpretation. According to ISIS' radical interpretation of Islam, gays should be thrown from a high building then stoned if they are not dead when they hit the ground. The group bases on one account in which the Prophet Muhammad reportedly said gays "should be thrown from tremendous height then stoned."

jmreire · 29-10-2021 11:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118092112#Comment_118092112

Do Muslims live by the Quran and Hadith's, or not? Sure there are discussions going on about which interpretation is the valid one, especially Shia / Sunni interpretation's. Just as there's a push on to repudiate so called "westernization " of interpretations to make Islam more appealing to western country's. But if as you have said, that western Islamic scholars are revisiting and examining the Quran and Hadiths, they manage to bring about change, especially if the more blood thirsty passages are removed, that would be maybe one of the best changes to come about in this age.

But as my wahabbi friend explained to me, " what ever you want, you will find in the Quran, and the Hadiths" Peace and love? Sure. Death and destruction? Yes, those too. Throw Gays off great height's, cut off the limbs of thieves, stone adulterers. Iran ( Shia ) Saudi ( Sunni) are this day and age, obeying these passages from the Quran and the Hadiths. You can have these discussions with Muslims, and get different opinions, sure, But at the end of the day, The Quran is still the Quran and the Hadiths are still the Hadiths. So as My Wahhabi friend says, a man will find what he wants to find for any course of action he wants.

ShatterAlan · 30-10-2021 6:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118078794#Comment_118078794

I'd like you to expand on this point.

ShatterAlan · 30-10-2021 6:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079163#Comment_118079163

You are just setting yourself up, aren't you.

Please continue to dig your hole and tell us how "Islam" is "against" women and the LGBQT?+ community?

nullzero · 30-10-2021 8:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118092911#Comment_118092911

I have posted a wealth of information on this thread which you can go back and read should the mood take you.

I will not repost everything to satisfy you as well as the three other posters who decided they wanted to have a pop at me already.

What I would say to YOU is, why don't you provide evidence that Islam is "For" women and the LGBTQ community? I'm assuming you have a wealth of evidence to support your position.

Piollaire · 30-10-2021 8:26am

It has been great to see the influence of religion decline in this country over the last decades. It is disheartening that it is on the rise again in a different form.

30-10-2021 9:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118092911#Comment_118092911

The part you're (intentionally?) missing is the state of women's rights and those of the LGBQ communities in Islamic nations. Perhaps you should take some time to research it for yourself?

The point is that if the vast majority of Islamic nations have laws and policies that are prescriptive towards these groups, and Islam is a religion that tends to directly influence State policy, then it stands to reason to associate the two in terms of a perception about these two groups. There's a commonality between Islamic nations in that these groups tend to be treated similarly, and in comparison with the rights extended within Western nations, Islam could be considered to be against them.

Now, in the case of women's rights, the situation is different, because as with the case of Indonesia, the shift back to traditional Islamic society was pushed by the women themselves, which shows the power of Islam within such a nation. That these women would want to drop the freedoms associated with western societies, in favor of returning to the more traditional system, which is more restrictive about the place (and public presence) of women in society.

I understand that some people just want to argue over every little point, but... these issues are damn obvious. All you need to do is look at any nation where Islam has gained a majority. Over the last three decades, a number of nations which previously had embraced the western concept of equality, have discarded it, in favor of returning to a more traditional Islamic based society, bringing in laws and social rules to restrict the behavior of people, especially that of women.

So, perhaps take 30 minutes to check the nations which are Islamic but not from the M.East, and consider how their women (and the LGBQ) communities are treated? Rather than argue against peoples posts without any understanding of how Islam shapes a national culture.

Oh, and BTW, I respect other nations/cultures right to live the way they want in their own countries. I don't see anything wrong with Islamic beliefs in regards to women, or LGBQ, although I wouldn't want to live that way myself. (Since I'm B). However, you will find, if you pay any real attention to speakers within Islam, of the expectation that other nations and cultures will adopt Islamic beliefs, whether that's accomplished through peaceful means or through war. The orders within the Islamic religion are pretty clear on the expectation that others should be made to accept Islam into their lives. One way or another.

jmreire · 30-10-2021 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118092903#Comment_118092903

Muslims (of all persuasions) believe that the Quran is the literal word of God, as given to His Messenger, Mohammad, back in the 6th century. And because it is Gods word, only he can change it. And for a practicing Muslim, the Quran dictates everything for all time, including the status of women and men, and the interaction of the sexes. The Nr of wives a man can have, or concubines, or slaves taken in battle. No doubt you will have heard about the way isis treated the Yazidi women they captured in Syria? And this is in recent history, and not to mention the death and destruction they rained in Iraq and Syria, and are now continuing in Afghanistan. When they were admonished by the Islamic hierarchy, the simply pointed out the relevant passages in the Quran to justify their actions. For 1400 years now, it has been like this. No change, unfortunately...and none likely either, despite the "tinkering" around the edges of various interpretations currently in progress by Muslim experts here in the west.

Relax brah · 30-10-2021 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093346#Comment_118093346

How do ISIS-K and The Taliban differ?

Both follow Sharia Law - you know your stuff, interested in your thoughts.

jmreire · 30-10-2021 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093402#Comment_118093402

To try and explain it ( to the best of my ability ) From the centre of hardline Islam outwards, to the less extreme versions, Saudi Wahhabism would be the core. For a Wahhabi, unless you are a Wahhabi, you are not quite "100%" Muslim. And this goes for Sunni Muslims too, And don't even mention the Shia...Wahabbis regard Shia's as maybe worse then Christians. At the outer reaches of Islam, and the nearest thing to Christians, you will find in Kosovo. They have a very relaxed attitude to Religion ( same as the Christians who used to live there) Both Christians and Kosovo Muslims each wear small white turban like caps, and before the Serbs were driven out, shared restaurants, beer, food etc.

I mentioned in a previous post that in the Quran, a man can find everything he need's in this life, both peace and war. So you get leaders who for their own vested interests, push the war version. Islam is under attack, defend Islam etc. All Muslims aspire to being perfect Muslims, so when Isis appeared on the scene, offering perfect Islam in their Caliphate, thousands flocked to to join them, and help build the "Perfect Islamic State". And in the beginning, they were a phenomenal success. The came very near their aim of "Dabiq" which is supposed to be the site of final battle for Islam.

The Taliban also aspired to have the perfect Islamic state ( but in fairness, they confined their activities to Afghanistan) and many were trained in Pakistani Madrassa's. The word "Taliban" means "Student". Pakistan used them in the past to exert control on events in Afghanistan.( a situation which they may now regret ) Both the Afghans and Isis followed the extreme Wahhabi version of Islam. And now, Isis have turned their sights on the Taliban, who they do not consider to represent "True Islam". Both claim to be the true keepers of Islam. The Taliban have a vision for Afghanistan, Isis have a vision for the world. Unfortunately, in both cases, for the people they rule over, it is brutal vision.

EnglishHeart · 30-10-2021 2:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058213408/should-we-in-ireland-be-concerned-about-jihad

Islamophilia is the problem. We have found in the UK that the number one enemy is the indigenous population that fawn over those who follow this ideology.

For a more in depth discussion of this topic I recommend reading Douglas Murray's book, 'Islamophilia, A very metropolitan malaise.'

enricoh · 30-10-2021 6:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118092911#Comment_118092911

He really is setting himself up Alan, you have him on the ropes now, Don't let him out of that hole!

jmreire · 30-10-2021 8:29pm

My God ( the Christian one ) is that the extent your knowledge of Islam and LGBQT Alan? Did you not know for example, that the activities they engage in ( same sex etc) are forbidden in the Quran,? and in some of the more hardline Islamic Country's these activities can and will get you killed.

31-10-2021 12:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095629#Comment_118095629

Hard to believe that he doesn't know.. It's not as if there haven't been discussions in the past referencing how Iran treats homosexuals.

jmreire · 31-10-2021 1:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096437#Comment_118096437

Yes, its strange all right. Never mind Gay / LGBQT relationships being forbidden, I've lived in Country's where you will never, ever meet the womenfolk of your colleagues, not even when they invite you to their homes for a meal. And another occasion when I was leaving via the airport with a lady colleague, the passport control officer allowed her through, but stopped me and quizzed me about my relationship with her. Was she my Wife? No. Sister? No. What was my relationship with her? None, I replied. So what are you doing with an unrelated female, he wanted to know. We are work colleagues I explained. And by God, was he angry. When he stamped my passport, he did it with such venom , it left its print through several pages. And this officer was obviously well educated and spoke perfect English. I got the distinctive impression that if he could have, he would made me pay for "insulting" their culture. God only knows what would have happened if we had been holding hands while in the queue,,,and as for LGBQT style behavior ????? the mind boggles.

Timberrrrrrrr · 31-10-2021 9:04am

"When he stamped my passport, he did it with such venom , it left its print through several pages."

I'll take, things that never happened for $500 please Alex 🙄🙄🙄

31-10-2021 9:05am

The posters who are most worried about Islam, in general, are more knowledgble about Islam and have had more direct contact with Islam, while the ones crying Islamaohobia appear to have no personal experience with Islam except for the most superficial encounters

31-10-2021 10:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096723#Comment_118096723

Well that's not true.

It is true that any poster who lived in a strict islamic state appear to be worried. There is no need however, as Ireland will not become a strict islamic state.

RobbieTheRobber · 31-10-2021 10:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096723#Comment_118096723

Yeah do you personally know all the anonymous posters on boards enough to make this judgement. Or is this just pure waffle on your part?

Should we in Ireland be concerned about Jihad?

Comments

Fear