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Remote working - the future?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    It's a bad attitude, to think anyone has a right to an office. No one even has the right to a job, we are all dispensable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,112 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Agree, no one has a right to a job. But anyone who you have employed has a right to be provided with adequate facilities and tools to do the job.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    They don't have a right to an office anyway, the ship has sailed. We don't have an office, and there is not a legal obligation on me to provide one. We made quite sure of that. Our employees are fine with it, I spoke to them about it over a number of months. Any future employees will know the situation before they start. But I think it's highly unlikely not having an office is going to make it harder to get people. Several of our crew have moved out of Belfast now they don't have to be there for work, which is great for them. In the future we can recruit from pretty well anywhere in the UK or Ireland, as long as people are able to get to Belfast once every couple of months, having been given notice of a week or so.

    This is definitely going to make it easier to get staff, before they realistically had to be able to get to central Belfast at peak times every single weekday. That was some grind, no one could miss that. If people miss interaction or whatever, then they need to work on their own social lives.


    This change is going to have massive implications for cities though, millions and millions in casual spending is going to leak from them into suburban or rural areas.



  • Posts: 15,362 [Deleted User]


    Wonderful to see how the growth in remote work is continuing




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭scottygee


    I recommend taking courses at skillshare! Try and look for a Youtuber that's sponsored by Skillshare so you can use their link and test it out for a month. One of the lads I follow on yt is Ali and I think he still has a link you can use. It's not a bad deal though! 10~ish USD per month for some really solid courses.

    Good luck with the career change, you'll smash it for sure!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,112 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble



    So 6 jobs in every 7 advertised don't offer remote working.

    I wonder of those that do, how many say "temporarily remote". Quite a few that I've noticed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,572 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    None of this changes the explicit legal obligation of employers to ensure their employees have a safe place of work.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Are you making the assumption that all employers who insist on return to office are not providing a safe environment?



  • Posts: 15,362 [Deleted User]


    Remote work job offerings have gone from 5% pre-covid to 15% post-covid, loving those numbers 😍

    I'm guessing it'll probably end up settling somewhere around 17-22% of total roles being remote, which would make sense. Imagine 1-in-5 working from home, heck the emissions savings alone make this a goal to aim for.

    The range of roles on offer is increasing daily too so there's something for everyone in the audience 😊

    As for the temp ones, approx 25% of the remote roles are temp so 75% are fully remote, awesome!

    Looking forward to the next report on this topic as the numbers keep getting better and better



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So after everything that has happened, 80% are office based? Hardly a seismic shift considering.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭C3PO


    I’m hesitant to agree on anything with Mrs O’Bumble but 1 out 7 jobs with some element of remote working is hardly remarkable?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Remote is here to stay, absolutely no doubt about it now. It's providing huge opportunities especially in IT for people to join major multi-nationals in the bigger cities while remaining where they want to live. A win-win for everyone.



  • Posts: 15,362 [Deleted User]


    You are both missing one important point though, thats 7 of any type of job.

    While there are many roles suited to remote, there are a large number which are not e.g. retail, manufacturing, customer facing etc. These will never be remote

    Absolutely



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I'm really struggling to understand what your problem with remote working is.

    What exactly do you not like about it, or is it opposition for opposition's sake?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Maybe read the article again, software/IT services 21%, corporate services 19%, financial services 10%, that’s hardly seismic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,572 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The only assumption that I'm making is that employers have greater control over the ergonomics of the workplace in an office compared to WFH.



  • Posts: 15,362 [Deleted User]


    Eh? I think you are misinterpreting something maybe. The paragraph states

    The top three industries offering remote working opportunities include Software & IT Services (21%), Corporate Services (19%), and Financial Services (10%), today's survey shows.

    i.e. Those 3 sectors account for 50% of the roles on offer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 77 ✭✭CalisGirl


    Also remote working isn't hybrid working. So many employees will have 1 to 2 days a week in the office and 1 in 7 jobs are fully remote. That's a huge shift in working patterns post pandemic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,112 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    No it's nothing like that many.

    It's 1 in 7 of those which are advertised in a way that's countable in a survey like that.

    So a factory or shop which hires six people from the one ad counts as 1 job. Many jobs which of their nature cannot be remote are not advertised in places that would see them included in the survey, eg teaching, nursing.


    I have nothing against off-site working when it's optional and when the employers are paying for the facilities they use.

    But I don't believe it's always a good thing, nor do I believe that heating a separate home office for each worker is better for the environment than heating one office for all the workers in a company.

    There's also a real chance that remote working will encourage more people to live in car dependent locations: mam and dad may not be commuting to the office, but they'll still be driving their kids to/from school, childminders, sports etc every day.



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  • Posts: 15,362 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭billyhead


    Indefinitely is probably until February. The government will want civil servants back in offices asap because food/drink and pub businesses in the City Center are on their knees.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    well, those businesses that are struggling need to think about reinventing themselves. Covid has only accelerated a flexible working trend that was starting to gather momentum anyway…..it’s not created anything new.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    I am guessing she is lower lower middle management. That is the only class I have seen or heard enthusiastic about a return to the office. They are afraid that they will be redundant if WFH continues to be the norm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    I can't see how the change to remote working can not see a lot of city centre businesses being killed off. There just won't be the footfall any more. The growth areas for cafes, restaurants, newsagents are in smaller towns or villages now.

    City centres will be doing well to ever get 50% of the 2019 office workers back. Overall this change is surely good for society, but there are going to be losers too.

    It'd be pointless the government trying to incentivise office work though. Remote work and changing spending patterns are just a new reality.



  • Posts: 15,362 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, there will be some businesses in high cost locations that will fail, but there will be also be a lot of growth in the smaller towns and villages which is arguably where some of these lower paid jobs are more valuable. The small town I lived in saw 5 new cafes open over the lockdowns and they are thriving to this day



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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,445 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    You do realise that the member of the government plus the Dail come from the country and represent rural regions etc... that have seen a revival over the past while right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭billyhead


    So you're saying they will want remote working indefinitely across the civil service?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,112 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    I was talking to a friend who works in a local financial services firm today. They're finding it harder than ever to recruit, because candidates want to keep their Dublin salary and career opportunities, while moving home to Galway, Limerick etc. They've also had more people than usual start and quit again within a few weeks/months because they got a better offer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    So what? There is no loss for the company in that case - a Dublin company will pay "Dublin wages" (whatever that means - wage disparity is nothing like UK and the London premium), so there is no increase in cost and no reduction in productivity. Back in 2019 did these employers care where the person is commuting from? Pre COVID, if a person was commuting from Buncrana to Dublin every day, would they get less because they live rurally? Or would the employer more likely simply not care?

    As I said before, I'm still struggling to understand the problem you have with WfH. You might enlighten us as to what your problem is, instead of just posting general negativity regarding it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Those companies that are struggling to retain their people are just going to have to take a look at themselves



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  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A "Financial services" company that is nitpicking over galway salaries versus Dublin salaries? No wonder they are losing staff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,112 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble



    There absolutely is a disparity: look at the salary surveys published by every major recruiter, and your will find at least Dublin vs Rest of Ireland. (Some break rest down even further.) I've made a small snip of one page of the latest from Sigmar's guide, pic below. (https://www.sigmarrecruitment.com/blog/2020/12/salary-guide-2021).

    There may not be an increase in cost for Dublin companies, but there likely will be for others, who can no longer hire from the pool of people who want to move closer to their homeplace, and will take a lower salary in return.

    My "problem" with WFH is not with WFH. It's with simplistic thinking which says universally wonderful. Yes, it has some good features. But it also has some challenges which WFO doesn't have, which most here want to pretend don't exist.

    It's a lot more work for managers, who have to go hunting for evidence that work is being done, or to diagnose the problem when it isn't. It transfers the cost of property from the employer to the employee, and will need changes to a whole bunch of technology, health and safety and operational procedures to stay legally compliant and manage risk. Yes - we all(*) coped since March 2020 without this, but at a cost to the amount of risk companies are taking. Some of this cannot be carried when there's not a public health emergency to justify it.


    (*) and I know for a fact that not everyone coped. Many of you won't even know which of your colleagues are struggling, but I can say with 100% certainly that SOME are.





  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This paragraph from Mrs OB perplexes me:

    It's a lot more work for managers, who have to go hunting for evidence that work is being done, or to diagnose the problem when it isn't. It transfers the cost of property from the employer to the employee, and will need changes to a whole bunch of technology, health and safety and operational procedures to stay legally compliant and manage risk. Yes - we all(*) coped since March 2020 without this, but at a cost to the amount of risk companies are taking. Some of this cannot be carried when there's not a public health emergency to justify it.

    *More work for managers - well tough

    *Property costs to employees - So you are concerned about employees as well as managers? Very magnanimous of you.

    *Will need changes to a wealth of technologies - I dont remember my employer being responsible for my ergonomic, or health and safety when getting the Luas to CityWest every morning.

    There is a host of technologies in place for a wide range of risks and those technologies have been around for a long time.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Most understand that instead of employers being responsible for H&S in a single building, they are now responsible in multiple workplaces which are not of their making. How you travel to your place of work (Luas) remains your business, regardless of whether you work in an office or remotely. And if managers struggle to ensure remote workers are doing their work, that will not auger well for long term remote working. Remote working on a mass scale is comparatively new, there will be a lot to work out, and it may not work for every business, so one view cannot be applied accross the board.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,001 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    The majority of her problems with it seem to be problems a manager might face, despite claiming she is not a manager.

    So it would be nice to know why a non manager would want to force everyone into the office.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Indeed. There are two issues with it

    1. it assumes that WFH is new. It isn’t. I’ve been hybrid working 2/3 days at home for nearly a decade now, even when technology was nowhere what it is now. H&S has been achieved, in my experience, through training and self assessment
    2. ‘more work for managers’ should be rephrased as ‘more work for bad managers’. There is no reason as to why it should be harder to manage productivity remotely compared to in the office unless you are a micromanager who needs to see a bum on a seat to be confident that there is work being done


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Hunting for evidence that work is being done? It would be very evident very quickly in my work place if work was not getting done, we have deadlines and dependencies. Do you work for the Civil Service by any chance?





  • Would like to it a little perspective on this from a point of view of somebody who was a H&S rep and responsible for employees and the public in my workplace. I worked in the public service, where H&S was theoretically taken very seriously, although I have mentioned elsewhere in forums why too often it has been pure lip service & box ticking. In principal the structures are there and fundamental, and in a lesser management role (responsible half the week for running a public premises & second in line remainder of time) my top responsibility was to oversee its safe operation, a role I took very seriously and where I made many interventions.

    During lockdown staff were deployed to work remotely, mainly contributing to online sociaL media content and informational write-ups. Senior management, of course, took up the entire responsibility for H&S in those circumstances, and it was an essential temporary measure and insurance covered the stopgap. Whilst undergoing formal H&S training for supervisors and for being a H&S Rep, I learned to make risk assessments and the scope of responsibility of the employer, the scope of which which covers their working time as well as any time spent on the premises of the employer. Getting to work, what you consume on the work premises (unless provided by employers) has nothing to do with the responsibility of the employer. You must conduct yourself in a responsible manner both during your working time and on the employer’s premises.

    The WFH H&S scenario can be extrapolated from the above, with the exception that you are not on your employer’s premises. The employer is accountable for your H&S whilst you are on working time, so it is important to define your working time by logging on/off etc, which most employers require anyway.

    Companies are liable to end up having successful legal action taken against them if they have not demonstrated to have exercised due care. Sometimes that’s a bit of box-ticking, as a good portion of the responsibility is on the part of the employer. Eg, if they place equipment poorly and trip over it and suffer an injury. Given that example it would be the responsibility of the employer to ensure the initial set-up is safe, and may require some evidence, be it an inspection or photographs etc. Then if employee moves the equipment to an awkward position and suffers a broken wrist whilst breaking their fall after tripping over it (and is unable to work or even sues because of injury) the employer may be able to de y payment/defend (in case of legal action etc) by demonstrating that the employee had significantly contributed to accident.

    Because of the aforesaid, companies are likely to make regular inspections (probably virtual) mandatory, which would probably be a sensible solution.





  • It is likely that Mrs OB, is, like I admit to being, a public service worker who has some perspective on management. The public service has traditionally had excellent workers and those few who are eternally carried by the former. That goes for managers too, some of them lazy and lousy and some good. The good workers in the public service have to be pretty damned good indeed to make it work at all.





  • With latest news about Covid I believe that remote working is definitely going to be an accelerating norm, but as I pointed out in previous posts it does take a lot of adaption by organisations, most especially when it comes to rather important insurance matters and also supervision (especially in certain areas) that work is being delivered for the payment given. As others have indicated, in many areas, it is very obvious if an individual’s due share of the work isn’t being completed.

    Insurance companies will adapt, risk assessors themselves can assess by video link, and it will work out. Currently there is a fairly steep learning curve, and no doubt there will be some legal cases which will direct practices in future. Where there’s an injury there’s a litigant, and no shortage of them in this country.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    So I presume there are only managers who left in the offices nowdays? I presume it is just for them all those lights in empty office buildings lid each day till late nights hours (Dublin here)?

    XD



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,445 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Why? No reason for them to be in the office either if everyone else is at home. Though if you have an investment in office rentals, might be time to reconsider it...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,112 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Have you ever seen a manager open and scan the mail, or print, frank and envelop the day's post?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    Hence the old rule that the lower down on the totem pole you are, the more you're missed if you don't turn up for work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,685 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    How else could golf clubs survive?

    Scrap the cap!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Literally no. Except for personal deliveries and trade magazines. The interweb thingy is good for the bills and invoices you know



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,685 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I have seen this, but only because they got something sent to work they didn't want the mrs to know about

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,112 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    But its shyte for proving that you've followed the legally required processes to make sure people have their rights.

    I will guarantee that most organisations do still deal with some volume of hard copy mail. They may be very low for ecommerce based businesses, but they will not be zero. (Evidence: An Post are still doing deliveries, and most of their mail is business-generated.)



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  • Posts: 15,362 [Deleted User]


    But its shyte for proving that you've followed the legally required processes to make sure people have their rights.

    Outside of archaic practices among the legal professions I can't think of anything where using the internet to communicate, rather than snail mail, would result in the removal of a persons rights

    Care to elaborate?



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