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Spiking.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Sounds a bit like MDMA was put in your water. I took too much one night and was a completely out of it like above, thankfully I was in a friends house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭pjcb


    maybe there is some (failed) 'pickup artist' websites spreading some method of spiking women?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,711 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    The above is true. Some toxicology can take days and in the case of deceased people, weeks as it's pushed down a priority queue.

    Now the flip side of this?

    The initial tweet (deleted) claimed she'd tested positive for multiple drugs.

    You can't have it both ways, I don't want to see her Tox screen, that's between her, the hospital and any investigating gardaí. But one cannot claim a definitive as was claimed, and then walk it back via the above style of tweet.

    It's not a matter of attacking women, or victim blaming. It is a matter of trust in claims, and the above tweet? Undermines the original claim of confirmed detection of multiple drugs.

    There has been some further local reporting on this too, included below.




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    And yet the original girl was “told” she had tested positive for “multiple drugs” within a few hours. She probably, definitely, wasn’t lying then though.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,286 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Oh Twitter girl must have been incredibly lucky then to get her “multiple drugs” result the very same morning while still “coming around”. Since the case is still referred to as an “alleged” spiking case these weren’t the drugs that are commonly associated with these types of attacks?

    Or maybe she could have just done the sensible thing and kept her mouth shut until the case was confirmed. But why cry over spilled milk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I used to, but not anymore. I don't see what more the government can do to get victims to make a report. We're in a time where everyone knows it's wrong, so there should be no fear of making a complaint. I understand that some won't come forward because they fear they won't be believed. Well, without coming forward, no one will believe it. AGS have specialised interviewers and processes for reports of sexual assault. That's my take.

    I've also no doubt that not everyone reports every crime either, so most likely a lot of other types of crime go unreported. If the fear of someone thinking you are lying is preventing you from making a complaint, then there's literally nothing anyone can do. That's something the victim will have to decide. The article you quoted doesn't even try to understand why it's so low. So if an investigative company can't figure it out, I'm not. The article states it's the way they are treated, but doesn't explain what that treatment is. Any investigation I was involved in, as far as I could tell, they were treated the same as every alleged victim of crime.

    Unless you're implying that people don't come forward because of people like me saying that some people who report sexual assault crimes could be lying? Because that's also true, there are many false reports, but we're not allowed talk about it because it could prevent a genuine case from coming forward? As if a false allegation is only a minor thing.

    If I wanted to put on the tin foil hat, I could ponder that only 36% are reported because maybe they're not all genuine? Not saying that is the case, thus the tin foil hat, but it's also a possibility. I know someone who had to leave Ireland because of a false allegation. It was proven it was false, but he still had to leave because of the abuse he was getting even after the lie came out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Less than real ones. How long is a piece of string? We don't know exactly how many offences are committed, so we can't know exactly how many are false. Do you think there are no false reports?



  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I ocassionally visit some of the darker parts of the web and see all kinds of things for sale. If there is a spiking pandemic, why do I not see "spiking kits" for sale, or indeed instructions for putting one together?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Do you think there are many false reports? What percentage of reports do you reckon are false?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Do you want me to make up a number or something? I don't know. And it would be unfair of me to put a figure on it. And what difference does it matter? If you're going somewhere with this, just go there already.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,196 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Has it been proved that this his happening yet?

    Like, have they caught lots of peopke with a syringe full of sedative?

    And have they identified lots of women with this sedative in their blood and urine and a needle mark where it was likely injected?

    Or found lots of people who sell this sedative?

    I'd treat it seriously but with skepticism unless it's proven to be actually happening. Someone self-diagnosing spiking is practically useless. Unless they go to the doctor or police for testing, it's about as credible as people who had a sniffle back in November 2019 and self-diagnose they had covid - might be possible but the much more likely explanation is the simple one that they had a normal cold or flu. Likewise, without a blood test, it's possible these people are being spiked but much more likely drank too much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I was hoping that you maybe had some actual experience to bring to the table. Do you treat all burglary reports with the same hostility and cynicism? Same for all stolen bike reports? What deters women from reporting sexual assaults and rapes is the fear of having to expose their most intimate sexual history, their sexual habits and preferences, the style of underwear they were wearing to a Garda who is thinking "but it's not the job of the Garda to believe" and "but no one should ever automatically assume someone is telling the truth. There's 3 sides to every story."

    Not saying she's lying, but"



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,196 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09



    The options aren't to either believe the claim of spiking or "Not saying she's lying, but" for example people can be mistaken and people can have unusual biological reactions to stress or alcohol or other environmental factors.

    The most sensible option is to treat the claim seriously and with scepticism. So investigate the claim, look for evidence, try to find a perpetrator, witnesses, materials used, spiking drug in the victim's system, online forums giving advice, dealers selling the drugs. In the absence of any evidence except a claim that it happened, you couldn't possibly just believe it happened, could you?





  • I must preface by assuring posters here I absolutely do not purchase any form of drug, medication or anything illegal, dodgy etc on the dark net, but it took 90 seconds to reach a site where if I were to be of a mind to do so I could have bought a well-known date rape sedative which may render a target compliant and “hopefully” lacking memory of the event. I have received such drugs regularly whilst undergoing medical procedures so because of this and my curiosity about what is being administered to me (the why, the how it acts etc) I have come to know a fair bit about them. Google can help inform anybody without knowledge. They do not knock you right out as you are sometimes required to cooperate with instructions, eg repositioning during a colonoscopy, but many do not recall the procedure itself itself or have a vague recollection of it. Some people, like myself, have memories largely unaffected by this class of drugs and can recall the procedure in detail to the doctor afterwards. In a medical setting they are very safe to use, and in most people the effects wear off reasonably quickly.

    I wouldn’t have a clue if it is widespread, but human nature dictates that where there is knowledge, intent, and easy acquisition, it will happen. A potential “date rapist” is a few clicks away from a product, but somehow risks getting caught during acquisition/delivery; the subject may not become suitably “compliant” or be aware of having been somehow unusually sedated by a small amount of drink and perhaps retain more of a memory than the perpetrator hoped.

    A simple pill crusher, available in any chemist will powder it down sufficiently to be hidden in almost any drink, especially a cocktail type drink.

    It is dangerously easy to do bad things these times and takes very little known-how.





  • Very easy to do bad things where there is intent. The internet has made attaining pills that bit more easy in that you don’t have to be seen to lurk in person around unsavoury spots, and indeed if discovered pills are being delivered online it may be potentially considered that you have inadvertently become addicted and trying to source your fix rather than a person with evil Intent. The perpetrator could argue that in court.





  • Typical RTÉ planning these days, never check out the lines, and don’t have good back-up plan.


    edit… posted in wrong thread 😱

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on




  • Trouble is the world has become extremely dependent on Chinese products.


    Edit…. Another post on wrong thread! 😤 mea culpa, have too many pages open!

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭MarkEadie


    I wouldn't be surprised if it does come from those weirdos along with all the incels, of which there are quite a few these days. It's very easy to spot their posts.



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  • Reports all over the place now, and some arrests in UK. The injected drug would likely be of the amnesic type, I won’t name here as I don’t want to help that knowledge feed via this forum. As I said a percentage of people would recall all or most events following the drug getting into their system, hence some recollections of having been injected or taking a drink and feeling unusually woozy.




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,286 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    And yet all of these are still referred to as "alleged cases", so this changes nothing.

    It is unsurprising that more and more suspected cases are reported if reports like this are being published and exasperating fear. It'd be good if stats could (eventually) be published to provide a realistic idea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Of course they are alleged cases. You know how long it takes to progress cases like this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,286 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    Irrelevant. The problem is that people are getting all hysterical about the "alleged" cases and are treating them as confirmed ones, as this thread has shown. God forbid if someone points this out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,196 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    It would have to be classed as an alleged spiking until its determined that someone actually spiked them and they didn't ingest the drugs by accident or on purpose. I'd treat the whole thing as I outlined above - treat it seriously and investigate it with scepticism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Who exactly is 'getting all hysterical' and who exactly is 'treating them as confirmed'?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I'd treat it like any other Garda report - with the same degree of skepticism as for reports of burglaries, bike thefts, physical assaults and other crimes. I wouldn't treat it with extra skepticism because the victims are women, or young women, or even worser, drunk young women. I would suggest that a little compassion would be shown for anyone reporting any assault.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    And that's why there are now Gardai trained in interviewing alleged victims of sexual abuse. It's not the Garda job to believe, it's their job to gather evidence. And I don't think there's anything anyone can do if someone doesn't want to recount the experience. I just reckon that now, 2021, there really shouldn't be any reason to not report these alleged crimes. Yeah, it's probably a horrible experience to recall, but pretty sure it wouldn't be as bad as passing the alleged suspect every day because you haven't made a report.

    I get it, it's an emotional and tough situation to be in. But no one can help if they don't help themselves by reporting. @AndrewJRenko I do have experience, however it's investigative experience. Without going into detail (and breaching the Garda Code and Official Secrets Act), of the 5 cases I was involved in, 2 withdrew. Later transpired both had a dose of guilt from the night before and went a bit far. From speaking to colleagues across the country (at the time), it's a regular occurrence but doesn't get reported because it could prevent others from coming forward. So I do have evidence, it's just tied up behind a code and an Act, and I'm not going to prison just to placate some random online.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,432 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Obviously not asking for details, but from what you implied, 3 didn't withdraw and proceeded somewhat (Again not asking how far).

    There is also the possibility that some victims might withdraw in order to try to forget about it and put it behind them and not be subjected to the kinds of opinions common on the thread here. I wouldn't think that that is impossible.

    I am sure that you also came across cases of domestic abuse where Guards are called out, a woman is visibly injured, makes allegations and later retracts them? I know someone who told me that, when they were young (actually a teenager I think) they told a parent about a relative fiddling with them and when the mother called the police, the victim wouldn't make a statement because they didn't want to go through with it. I never asked for details or an explanation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,286 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    That would be the people on this thread who get emotional about others questioning the validity of the unsubstantiated claims instead of believing someone's word.



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