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Finding a HAP landlord

  • 31-10-2021 7:49pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Is it difficult to find a landlord that accepts HAP? I am working full time and I am on the housing list and can get HAP.


    I had a viewing and it went well and then I mentioned HAP. Was told he had more viewings and then I didn't get the place.


    Do I have to be sneaky and move in and not say anything? Maybe apply for HAP if I lose my job? It's just all very sad that I have to do this, the extra money is better in my pocket.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭Deeec


    A hap tenant isn't attractive for the landlord. There is more paperwork and compliance work involved for the landlord which can cause problems. Also many landlords see hap tenants more likely to cause issues down the line. It's unfair but that's the reality. More landlords would be willing to take hap tenants if the compliance issues were relaxed a little. Maybe you should wait and mention hap until after you have signed the contract - dishonest but it may be the only way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,413 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    No need to mention HAP or the housing list to any landlord in advance.

    My strategy, if I were in your situation, would be not to say anything at all.

    Fact is you are employed and if you get the place they deem you reliable anyway and that should be enough.

    After acceptance just say "look, things have changed, I need to apply for HAP"...and you can not under any circumstances be discriminated against at that point due to HAP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Thanks very much. Looks like I have to do this. Something else will turn up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,292 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    You earn little enough that you would qualify for social housing, if a council house were available.

    Which is up to 35k if you are single in some parts of the country.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    HAP isn't related to you being employed or not. You can get it as long as you are under the income threshold (which varies by county and whether or not you have kids or depedents). What's more, if you get onto the list while your income is below it, even if it goes up later you usually will still get to avail of it, although since you have to pay a % of your income toward HAP, it will have diminishing returns and eventually end up costing more than just paying the rent directly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    It may have nothing to do with HAP but as said no need to mention it. I will say arrive on time and well dressed . I had a plasterer arrive late covered in dust and just told him no to even letting him in as he was so dirty. No way I would rent to somebody who would obviously not be clean. Not saying a tie or suit but clean and no track suits or similar. You can say it is snobbish but you put your best foot forward when trying to get a place. Dirty shoes are a really bad indicator to a landlord



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭dennyk


    You can avoid mentioning anything about HAP up front, but you'll also need to be prepared to pay the full rent yourself for a time in that case. One of the issues with HAP is that the council pays the current month's rent on the last Wednesday of the month, while almost all landlords will demand rent in advance (e.g. you pay November 1st for November's rent). HAP or no, you are still responsible for ensuring that the full rent amount is paid on time according to the terms of your tenancy, so that means you'll need to "front-load" that rent out of your own pocket so that when the HAP payment comes in, it actually covers the next month's rent rather than the current month. It can also take some time to get the HAP approval, especially if the landlord gets stubborn about filling out the necessary paperwork or can't produce a tax clearance certificate, so you will have to cover the rent out of pocket for a while until that is all sorted (if it ever is; if your landlord is not tax compliant or they refuse to submit the paperwork, you'll be unable to receive HAP, and while the landlord will likely get in some hot water for their noncompliance eventually, that may not help you avoid eviction for rent arrears in the meantime...).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Thanks very much for this. I am prepared for first month's rent and deposit upfront. I am just worried that if I go down the route of not saying anything and it's looking like I have to do this, can the landlord evict me because of HAP, even though I am not the type of person who will fück over someone and I know rent has to continue. But at the same time, if this is something I am entitled to, I want to get it. I have worked out my budget and calculations and by accepting HAP, it would knock 100 euro or so off my rent. That's all I want, is my own place with reasonable enough rent without having to houseshare at my age. I don't know why landlords think we're all bad people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭agoodpunt


    Thats why landlords have to look at employment contracts more closely for those who are on an income above HAP threshold

    There are laws to protect HAP recipients, some here support nondisclosure can expect extra checks when vetting.

    Post edited by agoodpunt on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    You may be eligible for HAP (rather than entitled to) if you find a property that complies. However you're being wildly ambitious thinking that HAP will be processed within a month, even pre-Covid that rarely happened, so just be prepared for further delays



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Well I also work and can pay rent from my wages. All I want is to claim something that I can without hassle. My biggest problem seems to actually find a landlord who will accept it. I already asked in a viewing and that was completely shot down. I only asked because I want to be honest with everything. But seems being honest gets me nowhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭BronsonTB


    It's not you per se but the exprience some landlord have had with HAP tenants - Some are brilliant & others take the p$ss & ruin it for others after them. Once a landlord has been stung by a bad HAP tenant they are very slow to take another.

    Also HAP criteria for a landlord is an added headache compared to someone not on it. May not be fair but that is the reality. Offering a higher deposit with HAP may also be a way go to give the landlord some reassurance.

    Sligo Metalhead



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    If you lie about needing hap and then spring it on your landlord after you have moved in is that not obtaining somthing by deception and grounds for eviction?

    Sure you would get fired from a job if they found out you lied on your cv.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    No the same as not saying which bank you use at the time of renting. Once you pay the rent on time and in advance like other tenants there is no issue in theory. I have no problem with HAP but I have had prospective tenants say they will top up above the allowable amounts and when I said no they claimed I was discriminating them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    This is what I'm worried about. I tried being honest and upfront and it got me nowhere. Landlords do not choose HAP tenants. They have their pick of tenants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    This is exactly why I wont become a landlord.

    If I do get a tenant that lies about their situation, its a long process to get them out again.


    Its easy to see why a landlord does not want the hassle with HAP. Neighbors certainly dont want it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Not even if I was a landlord but anywhere in life, no relationship would stand up with me if the first thing i heard about the other party was a lie.

    Not a good basis for a happy future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    How will a landlord know it's a lie? Circumstances change and this is what I'll be going with a few months into the tenancy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Yet if a tenant is upfront and says they're on HAP, you won't pick them either.


    The rent gets paid, why are landlords so fussy? Neighbours have nothing to do with how rent gets paid either.



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Are you house sharing right now, OP?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,148 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    I don't think you really have an option OP, if you fully disclose your situation, you'll find it very hard to get a place (in fairness this is the govt's fault because it's so hard to get rid of non-paying tenants).

    By not fully disclosing, you'll have a better chance of getting a place and whle the LL may be put out by it initially, once you're a good tenant, I'm sure they'll get over it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭agoodpunt


    Airbnb or proof of 50k +



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Because you said you’re not pushed on house sharing and was just wondering if that was your current situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Currently house sharing. But looking at getting out.


    You can get a one some rentals for 800-900. When receiving HAP, it can knock off about a 100euro or so. For example, a 900 euro place and with HAP paying 550, that leaves me with a 350 top up to the landlord. With my calculations for the council contribution, it works out to be around 85euros per week. So total rent paid is 690.


    Looking at houseshares with some of them, 500, 600 even 700 or more. I think it's better if I get a place on my own.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭agoodpunt


    A great little country, ever think you might progress in life, earn more?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Great little country, ever think of getting off your high horse?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    What do you mean by tenants saying they will top up above the allowable amounts?



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If you’re looking at property in the region of 800-900 of which 550 will be paid by HAP but HAP says

    “In general, the rent must be within the prescribed HAP rent limits for your household size and the area you live in. However, flexibility of up to 20% may be provided, on a case-by-case basis, where a household cannot find suitable accommodation within these limits”

    Wouldn’t a prospective landlord be within their rights to state that they do not meet HAP criteria and not fall foul of discrimination laws?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I think you need to be honest up front.

    If your landlord finds out you lied to them about anything then they will just give you notice to quit on the basis that you lied to them, though they probably will just cite no reason since saying anything at all could lead to accusations of discrimination.

    As you say they might not find out you are lying, but when you ask for HAP they will surely find out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    It's on the gov.ie website that says a tenant can top up rent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    They have no way of finding out that you lied at the beginning of a tenancy. Because things can change after you move in. Also it takes up to 12 weeks to get your name on the housing list, so three months into the tenancy, you could be eligible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    You would be surprised what people can finds out :)



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  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yes but the total rent can only be a maximum of 20% more than your 550 HAP limit. So total rent of 660, HAP pays 550 and you top up the difference. If it’s anymore than that then you won’t meet their eligibility criteria.

    I got the above info off citizens advice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    So what are you saying, you go around looking for information from other sources?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    I always took that has the council can pay out an extra 20% more than the limit, like if you're facing homelessness.


    But if what you say is correct, there's no where available to rent for €660. So what are people meant to do in that situation?



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Houseshare, OP 🤷🏻‍♀️

    You can get HAP towards that too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Houseshares are also expensive. Alot going for 600 euro per month.


    HAP pays 300 for a houseshare, so you top up 300 and my contribution to the council works out at 340 per month. So paying more in a house share which doesn't make sense.


    And what good is a house share to someone who is almost 40 years old? There comes a time when someone wants their own space.



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  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    But you’re already house sharing and I’m assuming paying full rent. Applying for HAP and having a few more quid in your pocket might make it more tolerable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Im not a landlord but based on the things i read on boards, if I was I would be leaving no stone unturned in the unlikely event i was to hand over a house to them.

    And if i even thought someone was lying to me about something they would be out before the 6 months are up, because lord knows what else they are lying about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Does that mean the LA would top up the HAP limit by 20% - say if the amount for an adult in Dublin is 660, would DCC pay 792 a month to the landlord and the tenant would pay their % of that to the council?

    TBF, it would be impossible to find a place to rent in Dublin for that amount unless it was a house-share.

    This is helpful information for anyone trying to understand the HAP scheme. I don't know how HAP works but the citizens information doesn't say anything about top-ups, are they allowed or not?



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I have no idea why you haven’t put yourself on the housing list already. Are there council estates in your county that have 1/2 bed bungalows in them? These may have elderly people in them and wouldn’t be suitable for families requiring social housing. Forgive my bluntness but once these elderly pass away, a single man like you in his forties, would be on a shorter list for one of them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    But that's the thing, HAP is complicated in a house share. Ive already said that I would be paying more in rent in a house share with HAP. I'm sure the council doesn't change the way they expect payment from you if you're in a houseshare. They have to work by the book and I've heard nothing about contribution to the council being different if you're in a houseshare.


    Anyways this isn't about money and being cheap. No amount of money is worth sharing with ignorant selfish fückers almost 40 years of age.


    A one bedroomed place for around 800euros would work out better for me with HAP. You'd be paying much the same in rent as what house shares are going for now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal




  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    @mrslancaster this is a quote from citizens advice page

    ”The scheme is administered by the local authorities, who pay the landlords directly. The rent being charged for the accommodation must be within the limits for the household type in that local authority’s area – see ‘HAP rent limits’ below. Tenants pay a weekly HAP rent contribution to the local authority, based on their income and ability to pay. Under the HAP scheme you can take up full-time employment and keep your housing support.”

    ”In general, the rent must be within the prescribed HAP rent limits for your household size and the area you live in. However, flexibility of up to 20% may be provided, on a case-by-case basis, where a household cannot find suitable accommodation within these limits. There is also additional flexibility, on a case-by-case basis, for eligible homeless households in the Dublin region, see Homeless HAP below.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Nothing on citizens information but it is on gov.ie website. Top ups are allowed.



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Apologies, m’dear 😊

    There’s a farmhouse with outbuildings in macroom for 600



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    No bother. I'm on the housing list but not sure it's as easy as just getting a place like that. There's a huge waiting list.



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