Unaccompanied Child in Hotel Lobby

josip · 02-11-2021 12:27am #1

Our 11yo daughter normally walks home from school by herself. On Thursdays, she does soccer in the school grounds that starts 1 hour after school finishes.

Up to now, she's killed that time with a friend in a local park, but that friend is no longer doing soccer. There is a hotel very close to the school with a spacious lobby and we were wondering would she be allowed to go there by herself and get a hot chocolate and do some homework while she waits. Like most hotels, there is a bar area adjoining the lobby. Does the lobby constitute part of the licensed premises and she would thus be too young to be unaccompanied? I'll go into the hotel on Thursday and ask anyway, but was wondering if anyone on here had experience of doing similar?

The only other option is for me to drive to the school and sit with her in the car for an hour until the soccer starts.

02-11-2021 12:30am

Jaysis, you expect your child to look after herself in a hotel lobby, with no.supervision?

Or do you expect the hotel to babysit her?

josip · 02-11-2021 1:30pm

She expects to look after herself, she's eleven, not seven :)

The same way when she walks to her piano practice, she waits in the nearby library doing homework for the 45 minutes beforehand.

It's not a city centre hotel with stag parties, it's an out of town country-style hotel, that gets mainly old tourists.

In that part of town, there is only the school, hotel, and a church.

She's already familiar with it and it was her suggestion instead of sitting in a car for an hour before the soccer.

I thought bubbly that you'd have been able to give a legal viewpoint as well as a moral one.

MIRMIR82 · 02-11-2021 1:52pm

I dunno....my initial thought was why not, run it by the hotel manager, she'd be fine but now I'm thinking she may be prey for some weirdo when it is a common occurrence.

Sonics2k · 02-11-2021 1:54pm

Just sit in the car with your kid or find something else to do to fill the time. Odds are the hotel won't allow an unaccompanied child on their premises, and certainly won't make a habit of it.

FintanMcluskey · 02-11-2021 2:00pm

IMO an unaccompanied 11 in a hotel lobby is a no no.

This not a legal viewpoint, its just me, some random chap who seen the thread.

Wait with your daughter for an hour, its only 1 day a week.

Xcellor · 02-11-2021 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106674#Comment_118106674

How common tho? It's more likely these terrible cases are mainstream and we are much more aware of them now through 24 hour media

I don't have kids at this age but it worries me sometimes that fear of "boogie men" will stop a lot of parents allowing their kids to develop independent thinking and basic cop on...

JimmyVik · 02-11-2021 2:07pm

Jesus, I cant believe you even asked that question OP.

You are supposed to protect your children not leave them in a hotel lobby on their own.

If I were the manager of that hotel i wouldnt be saying yes to you, I would be picking up the phone to call child services for you.

cavan_man2021 · 02-11-2021 2:23pm

OP I think you are taking a risk with a young girl. I can understand it's a small town but if she went missing, you would never live with yourself. Little maddie mccans parents took risks and their wee girl disappeared. Get a magazine to read on Thursdays in the car . There is way too many individuals out there that would cotton on to her being there every Thursday. We have a closed identity on paedos here. Your main job is to protect her. Stop thinking of how bored you will be for a hour in the car.

sweetie · 02-11-2021 2:27pm

Is there any after school activity or homework club etc in the school?

02-11-2021 2:31pm

What about approaching the parents of the other kids who go to soccer practice? Is it a teacher from the school that’s coaching or someone else? I’d chat to the coach, see if they have a solution.

partyguinness · 02-11-2021 2:32pm

It will be soon enough staff will start asking questions.

Legally, what is something happens the child on the premises? Parent running off to sue.

My son goes to tuition twice a week for an hour each time. Guess what? I sit in the car for an hour (x2).

Both kids go swimming on a Wednesday for an hour. Guess what? I wait in the car.

If I was the manager there is no way I would tolerate this lazy parenting.

Call me Al · 02-11-2021 2:38pm

From a child protection perspective i think the hotel would be absolutely crazy to be OK with this.

Uncle Pierre · 02-11-2021 2:41pm

How long is the walk home from school? If she walks every other day, I'm guessing it's probably not more than 10 or 15 minutes?

Could she just walk home as normal on Thursdays, spend half an hour or so there, and then go back to soccer? Either being driven or walking back (assuming that the soccer pitch is near the school anyway, since you're comfortable with her walking that distance every other day). And that way, if you're driving her back, you've only got to wait during practice itself, instead of for an hour beforehand too.

But either way, whatever about the legality of an unaccompanied 11-year-old in something that might or might not be a licensed premises, I wouldn't be comfortable with the idea myself.

Coyote · 02-11-2021 2:50pm

I think people in Ireland and other places think the world is more dangerous than it is

adults and kids will act and behave based on whats excepted of them. if we treat them like they can't be trusted they will never learn to be independent

(learned helplessness)

but even after saying that I'm not sure a hotel would agree to it, as they might feel they are responsible in some way. and given the courts in Ireland won't hold anyone to be responsible for themselves without someone to blame. my guess is they will say no unfortunately

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7YrN8Q2PDU

xzanti · 02-11-2021 3:08pm

When I was 11 I was taking public transport home from school. Letting myself into the house and making myself a sandwich until my Mother came home from work at 5. It did me no harm and I learned independence.

So from an age standpoint I don't personally see an issue with her being unsupervised in general for short periods during the day. That's just my opinion.

However; the hotel lobby thing though kind of gives me a bad feeling. A: she's going to stand out as being alone in such a setting. B: As someone else pointed out; if it's a regular thing then a person with bad intentions could hone in on her routine. C: I don't see the hotel allowing an unaccompanied minor on the premises.

Just my 2 cents.

whippet · 02-11-2021 3:16pm

I wouldn't be all that concerned about an 11 year old being out and about for an hour or so in the mid afternoon. However - hanging around a hotel lobby isn't ok.

Firstly - if you approach the hotel and let them know I am almost certain they would tell you that they can't allow it as if they do they would then be accepting some sort of responsibility for a child on their premises. Which they would have rocks in their heads if they were willing to accept.

Secondly - if you don't approach the hotel and this child just appears on a regular basis hanging around the lobby - questions will be asked and very quickly the hotel will be back to the mentality of 'we can't be responsible for this child'

As has been mentioned before - if you can't find a safe place for your child to hang around on their own .. its up to you to make them safe.

storker · 02-11-2021 3:24pm

I can see the logic in your thinking and I wouldn't dismiss it (immediately 🙂) as lazy parenting, but if I was the hotel manager I would decline politely. Even if she never attracted dubious attention, the hotel would have to assume that she might, and then "keeping an eye on the kid" becomes part of the duties of the barman/barista/receptionist. Not to mention the potential fallout for the hotel if something did happen.

How long does it take her to walk home?

Depending on the answer to this, perhaps you could:

Let her walk home from school, then drive her to and from football.
Let her walk home from school, then drive her to football and let her walk home.
Let her walk home from school, then drive her to football and go into the hotel yourself and have a quiet coffee and some you-time while she's playing. Or get some work done if you're working from home.
Pick her up from school and take her to the hotel and have some kid/parent time together over a hot drink while waiting for football to start.
Some other combination of the above that avoids both her being in the hotel alone and you both sitting in the car for an hour.

El Gato De Negocios · 02-11-2021 3:28pm

Aside from any potential risk to your daughters physical wellbeing, for the hotel it would be a huge insurance risk. Regardless of how mature or whatever she is, she is still only a child and coming / going to and from a hotel alone creates additional risk.

GreeBo · 02-11-2021 3:31pm

I dont follow the rationale that her repeatedly being in the hotel lobby is dangerous yet her repeatedly walking to/from home/school isn't?

OP are there other kids playing soccer before your daughters group? She might be better off just waiting at the pitches, assuming she wont be there on her own. Now I dont know what you do if it rains, but what does she do if it rains when walking?

Jellybaby_1 · 02-11-2021 3:34pm

Its a long time since our children were that age but while they were at football, ballet, or whatever, it was a good time to get to know other parents over a cuppa. Leaving any child in a hotel lobby is not something I would recommend. Hotels are where strangers stay, and there is also the staff who you wouldn't know either. You might enjoy meeting other parents. Sacrifice that hour, it might not be as boring as you think.

whisky_galore · 02-11-2021 3:52pm

Wasn't this a Home Alone sequel?

MIRMIR82 · 02-11-2021 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106744#Comment_118106744

I meant the child being in the hotel being a common occurrence, not the boogie men 🤣

Fionne · 02-11-2021 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118107354#Comment_118107354

I presume it's because there's a perceived increased risk of the child being approached or "befriended" if she is in a hotel lobby where she may feel safer and that it may be less likely she would engage with someone who approached her while out walking.

I can't see the hotel giving permission for it in any case, an unaccompanied minor is just not something any business will want to take on the responsibility for.

partyguinness · 02-11-2021 4:30pm

Well OP, ask yourself...what if something dreadful happens to your child hanging aronud a hotel with all sorts of strangers up and down to bedrooms but you were not there because you couldnt be arsed to sit and wait with her.

Uncle Pierre · 02-11-2021 4:46pm

I wouldn't be so hard on the parent here as others are being. Don't overlook how the girl already walks to a library and spends 45 minutes there before piano practice. In some ways, the idea of spending time in a hotel lobby instead isn't all that different.

However, it's still different enough for me to be uncomfortable with the idea myself, and I think the OP should consider the alternatives being put forward instead.

02-11-2021 4:46pm

You're a disgrace OP. You should have live GPS data with visual confirmation at all times. An 11 year old has only been walking for a decade after all.

An 11 year old should be trusted to sit unaccompanied for an hour or 2. It's a pretty sad indictment of society (the imagined everyone-is-a-killer society) that people aren't just a bit concerned but really worried about an 11 year old being on their own for not very long. At least you've raised your kid to the point that you feel you can trust them to do that so after all the pearl-clutching there's a compliment for you!

At the same time though because of the above attitudes and general don't-do-anything-in-case-you're-sued meme that runs through so much of Irish society I'd expect the hotel would be asking questions pretty quick-sharp and are unlikely to go along with it. Might be worth dropping in and asking but I'd be surprised if you got anywhere with it.

02-11-2021 4:47pm

There's some fairly dramatic responses towards the op.

With regards to paedos it's much more likely a relative or family friend will sexually assault your child than some randomer so would ye expect the op to never leave the child with Granny or grandad or uncle etc.?

What I'm saying is where do you draw the line between protecting your child and allowing them freedom at that age?

Having said all that, I would be really surprised if the hotel staff agreed with you to let your daughter use the hotel lobby as a waiting area as it's kind of making them responsible for her. If you were going to allow her to wait there you'd be better off not asking and just leave her to it.

NickNickleby · 02-11-2021 4:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118107011#Comment_118107011

That used to stand out for me when I went there on holidays. But it shouldn't have. I was a child in 50/60s Birmingham, and used to travel with my younger brother and sister on the bus to and from school when we were 6/7/8. By the time I was 10 I was travelling anywhere I wanted alone on the bus. Even in dark winter evenings. Knew the rules, but never had a problem. Came to Ireland, and the same. School was a bus journey away, so did it alone , with friends jumping on further down the route. By the time I was 12, I was travelling on trains alone. So, don't know why there's a fuss about 11 year old.

Ok, the hotel lobby thing probably raises eyebrows. Would there be raised eyebrows if it was McDonalds? Anyway, I think the reality here is , that any manager approached about this would automatically and immediately refuse - for reasons alluded to above. Appallingly ,it seems to me that its fear of litigation, not fear of something happening to the child (which I deem EXTREMELY unlikely anyway).

But.... why not accompany her to the lobby and have a coffee with her while she does her homework/chats. If it was me, I'd make an arrangement to meet my daughter in there. then send her to get the coffees. Then after a while I'd suss out the place and suggest some day I might be late go ahead and get yourself a coffee, and then when I get there get me one as well. That's how to find out if the hotel will baulk at it.

spait0e60 · 02-11-2021 4:57pm

The hotel lobby does not sound like a great idea. I don't think the management would look favorably on it if they see the child there on a regular basis. However if the place also serves food and drink it's not much different to her going to a cafe and getting a drink and reading a book and there probably wouldn't be too much of a problem with that. I think some of the reactions above are a bit alarmist but at the same time the age is a bit tricky - if she was thirteen or fourteen I might feel a little more comfortable about it as a parent.

josip · 02-11-2021 5:07pm

Thanks to everyone so far for the replies. Especially the keyboard warriors.

Although I stated it clearly in post 3, perhaps some missed it and I need to repeat again, that it was our daughter's suggestion not ours.

I already wait/work from the car 4 times a week for 6 hours while she does other activities, so another 2 hours wouldn't bother me, but with the hotel being so close we'd almost certainly base ourselves there rather than the car. My experience of homework in the car is that it's ok for 10 minutes verbal revision, but beyond that it's not a good/practical location. The school doesn't provide any after school services and soccer is shared with an older class, she's the only one from her class left doing it.

Thanks to anyone who gave their opinion of what the hotel would say. I'd agree with all those who suspect that the hotel won't allow it. I'm not looking for any special favour/service from them, just asking them what's their policy. But we'd prefer to be up front, ask and be refused instead of doing it unbeknownst to the hotel. Also, my daughter doesn't want to be 'sneaking around' so upfront approval is a must.

The 'opportunity' as we (daughter + parents) see here, is for her to do something useful in the hour waiting, while also becoming more independent in a safe environment. Without disclosing the name of the hotel, we would see her to be at less risk of a predator in the hotel than in the local library. It's just that kind of hotel and lobby area. There are a couple of other parents from her class nearby that we could ask, but it would be asking them for free childminding for an hour a week since we can't return the favour. And our daughter's preference is the hotel since she would get some homework done, which she wouldn't get elsewhere.

It's a chance for her to buy a hot chocolate, use her own Revolut, manage her own homework time, ensure she leaves on time to get back to the school. If there are any issues, she can call us on her Nokia. We saw it as full of potential positives.

Unaccompanied Child in Hotel Lobby

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