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How to encourage a return to the office?

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,692 ✭✭✭storker


    Yes you're absolutely right. Isolation. If only someone would invent some form of communication software that could pass messages asynchronously and even synchronously with accompanying sound and video, and if someone else would invent an distributed network that would allow such traffic to be easily carried, then nobody would need to work in isolation. Until then, asking people question in person face to face is obviously the most efficient way of getting information. I wish those inventor guys would pull their fingers out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    What ye are talking about is mentoring. Some people/places do it most places don't.

    The other is remote working some people are better able to mange this than others. I say places with good management seem to manage this better. Though some people just refuse to engage with it. They just really dislike it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Alright, no need for the sarcasm. Having meetings or calls with people over Zoom or Teams is not the same, no matter how you try and sell it. They are scheduled discussions or calls with a specific purpose. I can tell you that I have gotten way more out of an in-person meeting than any call online. There's an intangible benefit from being face to face. I think it's because it's much easier to speak up when you're around a table, or you can have a break-out conversation with someone at the end of the meeting to focus in on a certain point. A lot of the time on video calls people don't bother doing this, or are apprehensive about speaking.

    The same goes for random questions you have during the day. When I was working from home and I had a small query for a manager, I would not want to pester him with messages or calls. In an office setting I can just turn my head and ask him. He does the same thing. I have much more interaction with him in an office setting. Results in a lot less wasting time trying to figure out something on your own.

    Everyone should have a 'mentor'. Is that not a common thing? I'm not talking about something formal, but even a line manager that you go to when you're stuck or not sure of something. It's impossible to know everything in your job, no matter your level of experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,732 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    This - the amount of people that I have spent 1/2/3 years of sitting just 20 feet away from them every single day, in various different jobs; and yet if I passed them in the street now I would just about say hello and thats it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,019 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    I must be the complete opposite I find it much easier to communicate especially with online chatting.

    In the office you are in a meeting room or talking to somebody at your desk and it's based on your memory to know what you need to do.

    Then you also have people who don't have the confidence to ask questions in person who find it easier to do it online, you also have some people who are not very helpful because they hate being disturbed when you call to the desk I have noticed these type of people are more helpful online when they respond when they are not under pressure.

    When your using online messaging you have it in front of you exactly what you need to do so it is much clearer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,732 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    all good in theory - but if someone doesnt want to return to the office, and your argument is well we need to return because of mentoring - you'll be met with 'Is that all you've got'.

    I am back in the office - I heard all this baloney on zoom calls about how we needed to be back in the office because you get more done in person, mentoring all this nonsense. Its all nonsense, managers using excuses because they want to have a 'reason' to bring people back.

    Now that we are back, the only thing people talk about is how miserable it is to be back.

    You are asking people to do a two hour commute per day, just because one guy has an opinion that it might be better to ask questions in person than on a zoom call?

    Post edited by Tombo2001 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,741 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    less engagement?


    what type of IT system have you in place. we migrated to MS teams and engagement shot up. we can video chat or call anyone within the organisation from our laptops, which is often more efficient that emails. I've more in person conversations from home than i ever had in the office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Productivity? I wouldn't say so. Deadlines don't move. The quality of work on the other hand has decreased resulting in more work trying to fix the problems it caused.

    You can have both. I've been in the office and have messaged people on our messaging system instead of going to their desk. I know you're going to say "what's the point in being in the office then". You'd only message when you don't need engagement from someone and it's something innocuous.

    That's the thing. People don't see the value in it which is a problem. It sounds like you work in a bad environment because anyone I've spoken to who has returned to the office is pretty happy to be there and delighted to get out of the home to break up the week and to actually talk with their team. And this isn't just upper management. This is at all levels with varying life commitments and commutes.

    Don't get the reference.

    Do you talk with people outside you team (that is if yo work on teams)? When you work from home you tend to be in a bubble and not know what's going on in other teams or departments. I've no reason to talk to anyone outside my team when I work from home, but I have had casual work related conversations with other teams when in the office and have discovered things that I would never have otherwise.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭bokale


    We ran sessions across teams pre covid anyway. These have continued throughout covid.

    It's good practice to see how other teams are doing things. Knowledge share. Problems each team have integrating with each other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    It could be interpreted that your places is micro managed, with no clear managed processes, checks and balances in place to ensure consistency and quality. Those that do exist are not formalized in a system/process and done ad hoc by informal checks to the people desks and undocumented verbal conversations. These have no been transferred into a digital communications, and thus are missing when staff are working out of the office and managers are unable (or unwilling) to micro mange remotely.

    If a couple of people left how would any replacement get any of the information that been passed between people informally.

    How are metrics generated from these informal project management habits to check efficiency and productivity.

    That said there no doubt there is value in having good working relationship across and organization and teams. This is often enhanced though informal and social interactions. Hence the popularity of team building exercises etc. Company days etc.

    Who knows why your place is having issue with it. But there's probably more to it than some vague idea about people working better in an office. I would want to see some metrics on it, and analyse the work practices.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Same here it has forced some people into communicating, people who were often uncooperative and unresponsive in the office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Re: mentoring.

    No I would say mentoring is quite rare. New people are often dropped in the deep end to sink or swim.

    Often companies say they can't get the right people, with the right skills. Usually these are the places with no training, or mentoring in place. People are meant to gain knowledge thats built up over years at the water cooler through telepathy. Apparently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Our company has blended working and mentoring.

    Magically we just use phones and Teams when we're at home or on site.

    It's really quite simple.

    We also ring eachother for a chat if we want to discuss something.

    No watercooler needed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,019 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    You have people who hate when you come to their desk and they just tell you to go away because they are under pressure and they don't help at all.

    I have noticed with someone I am working with that she gets back to me when she has free time online but in the office she wouldn't even remember what I asked so I would get no help.

    You have people who are not great at asking people for help in person but are more confident doing it online.

    You also have everything wrote down in front off you instead of trying to memorise everything from a chat at a desk.

    I don't see how anybody could say communication is worse since working from home because it is completely different to my experience, but maybe I am wrong.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think everyone knows someone that is just brutal at getting back to you. Even amongst family's and friends. Always have mobile phone problems. No battery, forgot my phone, didn't see your call etc.

    You get those at work. I was overseeing one team to see why their process took so long. Turned out it was different stages were kicked off by the manager (for no reason) and the manager was person who also made decisions when errors were encountered. However the manager often took hours or days to get back to the team. (no reason why). Because we overseeing the process, the manager was giving instant responses, thus cutting days off the teams process. Before watching this the assumption was the problem was the team, or working remotely. Interesting to observe.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hence the popularity of team building exercises etc. Company days etc.

    Over the last few decades I've foubd, without fail, that the folks who were super excited for the team building/days out etc, were typically the least effective in their roles and were usually the ones that were the biggest distractions around the office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    True. But They still work especially in places that are silo'd or disconnected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,732 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    "I'd say you work in a bad environment"......really?

    I think youve your mind made up on this issue and you are looking for people to reinforce your views.

    At no point did I say people could not see the value of mentoring.

    On the contrary

    • Its clear to people that mentoring can still take place in a WFH environment
    • The 'value of mentoring' is far less important to people than the hassle of long commutes and the financial cost of childcare.

    By all means - you go back to the office if thats what you want to. But if I dont want to go back to the office - dont try to tell me I need to go back because of mentoring or productivity or communication, thats just bull.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,732 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    One thing I would say though - if you want to persuade people to come back to the office (which contrary to what you say, its pretty well documented that most dont want to) - then the first thing I would look at is:

    Make offices nicer.

    Most of them are pretty drab looking on the inside. Given the choice, would I choose to spend my time wearing a suit in an open plan office with cheap carpet and plastic tiled ceilings. No, I definitely wouldnt.



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  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Apple & Google have probably the best set up offices anywhere and the office workers are balking at giving up WFH. A nice office is....well nice, but an improved work/life balance with no commute, that's a lot nicer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    That's because they want staff stay working as long hours as possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Don't quote something I didn't say. I said "it sounds like you work in a bad environment". Very subtle difference with "I'd say you work in a bad environment". Anyways, back to the point - you said everyone was talking about how miserable it is to be back. The environment should be good enough so that you don't mind going to the office. It's exactly what I'm going for here!

    Where is it well documented may I ask? And please don't say on these forums!

    I'm not sure making an office look nicer will encourage people to come back. Sure it may make the experience better, but I doubt anyone will say "oh I've decided to go back to the office now. They've painted the walls!" I'm thinking something more tangible, something actually on offer for everyone that they can take advantage of.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yup and in fairness to them, they've always been completely open about that fact.

    Staff, on the other hand, after experiencing remote working, are unlikely to want to return to that



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The problems you sketch out arent exactly anything very concrete


    In order to convince people that they are real I suppose I'd be doing a lot more work on scoping out the specifics and demonstrating that the issues were in fact real and related to not being in the office.


    I'd then try to solve the specifics in a way that focused on solutions that worked with people not being in the office together first


    Otherwise it would just look like someone had decided people not being in the office was a problem and simply found vague excuses to back that up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,732 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Here ya go.

    20% of those surveyed say they are ready to go back. 80% say they arent. Out of those who are Yes or No. And a sample of circa 10'000 so very conclusive. Much more than your 'anyone I've spoken to' sample, the same lad who is telling me not to form a view based on forum discussions.

    Poll: Are you ready to go back to working in an office next month? (thejournal.ie)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,142 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble



    With Covid case numbers north of 3k in the last few days, lots will say no to "In the next month" - including me. Doesn't mean that's their long term approach though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,020 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Why is there so much traffic on the roads these days if so many are enjoying WFH? I can't figure that one out. But anyway, was down IFSC way today and it was like an unused movie set.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭Rket4000


    People who are going to work are driving because they feel safer in their own cars than on public transport.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    With all the climate outcry...why is there not a push to make blended work and WFH more of a permanent fixture...

    I have 2 friends who will be driving a total of 700km a week...

    Imagine the improvement in air quality, road safety and general happyness if we had more WFH and/or blended work for all those folks who did WFH during the pandemic



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,571 ✭✭✭✭dulpit




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,142 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Because we have a housing shortage, and using a spare bedroom as a home office reduces overall bed-spaces available.



  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭Bsharp


    Be interesting to see if our emissions go up due to WFH until our housing stock becomes more energy efficient.

    Lots of people, particularly living in urban areas, are likely to have a higher carbon footprint right now.

    Instead of cycling to work and using shared office space I'm wfh using heating and lighting for one. Possible my carbon usage will have gone up.

    Congestion is nearly back to its peak because people are avoiding PT so the overall figures won't look great.



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭HartsHat


    Who are all these people who decided to work 175km from where they live?

    Bonkers stuff.

    Anyway OP, you have a few options:

    1. Make it mandatory, or

    2. Keep it optional but pay those who come in full time more/promote them ahead of the WFH gang.



  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭Bsharp


    On topic, competitor of ours is running training/learning sessions in the office every week so people have a specific reason to be in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,145 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    so not using the spare room, relieves the housing crisis!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    First off, a journal.ie poll is your source? Not exactly the most reliable.

    Regardless, this is such a limited poll that it doesn't tell you anything. "Are you ready to go back to working in an office next month?" could be interpreted as full time. Maybe they don't want to go back next month, but will in two months time.

    The response "I'll still be working from home" isn't even an answer to the question. Does that mean they have to work from home, or they have chosen to work from home? You could be read to go back to working in an office next month and also still be working from home.

    Also your percentages are off. It's 38% of people who work in an office that said they either are, or want to go back to the office next month.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It's unlikely that many people are renting a room that's subsequently been turned into an office. Or that people were prevented from renting a room as they needed an office. The numbers renting a room seem very small.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/homeowners-flocked-to-rent-a-room-scheme-in-lean-years-1.3193714



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    A lot of people don't want wfh to gain ground. You can see from these forums the amount of ludicrous anti wfh sentiment. Many people hate change. They think it protects their own preferences if they denigrate other choices.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,692 ✭✭✭storker


    The sarcasm was an appropriate response to your pretty silly false dichotomy where one is either in the office and connected or working from home and "in complete isolation". You're not, and just because you might feel like you are doesn't mean you really are. Your fallacious "I am the world" argument is far from convincing What you need to do instead of trying to get everyone else in line with your preferred way of working is show some adaptability, which seems to be seriously lacking so far. You have all this technology to help you yet you're effectively dismissing it with a wave of the hand and insisting that only face-to-face contact will do.

    As for the asking questions aspect, you say that you're more careful of disturbing your manager now you're working remotely. That's probably a good thing, and he's probably being more productive with the other tasks on his plate now that he isn't being bothered by you with your questions (unless his only function is to do so, which I seriously doubt). There are some easy workarounds available to you here, and I think it's illuminating that you don't seem to have occurred to you. One might be to schedule a few 15-minute phone or Zoom/Teams calls each day with you save your questions and hit him with them all at once. Outside of these times, if you hit a snag that requires a consultation with your manager, note it and move on the the next task.

    The technological workarounds for remote working are proving successful for a lot of people, It's not a question of me "trying to sell it", the proof is in the pudding that's being eaten all over the world by many people,. In some ways the new tech is better, in some ways not so good, but people adapt, working around the shortfalls, and enjoying the new advantages. Maybe you should try embracing the technology instead of dismissing it and reaching for your comfort blanket.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    When there is a major saving for companies, you can guess who's bubble is going to be burst. My daughter started her first job out of college last year at with a consulting engineering firm - about 70 employees. The owner kept telling them, that they'd be back in the office next year... At the end of October, he any announced a special bonus at the staff conference call and oh by the way, he is not renewing the rental contact on the office and WFH was not permanent!



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Companies act in their own best interests and having a POed workforce and being unable to attract staff are very good reasons to make a U turn.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Right sure.... you might want to re read your first post very carefully.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring



    At the end of October, he any announced a special bonus at the staff conference call and oh by the way, he is not renewing the rental contact on the office and WFH was not permanent!

    So no office. No WFH. They gonna work in the carpark?



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    They work on average 35Km from work, so a 70km round trip X5 days=350km per person so 2 mates is 700km



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    I did not say everyone was in complete isolation, but I would consider someone who has zero face to face contact to be isolated. The exact definition of isolated is "far away from other places, buildings, or people; remote.". Remote is a key word there, as in remote working!

    I am looking for adaptation, hence the blended working. You're the one who's not adapting as you can't seem to find a balance between working from home and the office.

    Also I neve said that only face to face contact will do. You keep putting words in my mouth.

    I don't see your proposal as a good workaround. You could be working on one task for the day and you hit a bump in the road. You're suggesting you wait around until your scheduled meeting comes up? How is that productive?

    You seem to be purposefully misinterpreting everything I say. Is it just to try and get an argument going?

    No need. I know exactly what I said because I wrote it. Is there a point to your post?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,142 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Great example of the perils of relying on written communication: one easy typo, 100% change of meaning, people are confused.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,808 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    People can choose to be difficult and uncommunicative where ever they are. Be that in a office or remote.

    Likewise people can choose to be easy to work with and communicative also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,692 ✭✭✭storker


    I think you need to read (or type) your own posts more carefully. Everything I've said has been based on what you've said. I never said that everyone must work from home, or that working from home is the only way to go, I said that working from home is not the communications problem you're making it out to be, if people are prepared to adapt. Companies all over the place are proving that.



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