PUP fraud €183k, should the guilty be stripped of citizenship?

So someone who is born in Ireland has more right to defraud the state?

Once they've been granted citizenship, they are citizens. Why should the backlash be greater than it is for any other citizen?

They have to qualify. You and I are far more privileged in that we gained citizenship by pure chance.

You're asking for the law to cater to your subjective opinion on citizenship, one could just as easily argue that the loyalty birthright citizens to Ireland is a stronger bond and therefore their crimes against the state should be treated more harshly than that of a naturalized citizens. Both scenarios are forms of discrimination and the law cannot discriminate, it has to be objective and treat all citizens the same. It could not be more morally right.

A probationary period might be something to consider. All clean for ten years, ok,you are permanent, convicted of a crime or crimes, out you go, and citizenship is revoked. - like a job only with a longer lead in time.

So many of them are from that N word country though, it's a joke.

We all know there are Irish born people playing the system but if someone comes to this country and it given citizenship then the least they can do is be grateful for it and not engage in criminal activity.

The left are out in force in this thread saying its the same as Irish born doing it but it isn't the same, these guys are from another country and they played the system in this one, the law should be changed to kick them and anyone else out but no fear McEntee will do that in case she offends someone.

You are a result of chance, you literally used the word "luck" yourself in describing your parents path to having you. You had no say in the matter. Chance brought your parents together, chance brought their parents together. Do you know how long sperm survives? 3 days. Your existence is a result of your parents deciding to copulate within a three day window and the pure chance that your sperm won the race.

We're drifting off topic here so I'll just add that I didn't think it was massively leftist to say that we don't treat people like literal second class citizens.

Something can be a logical result of chance, chance is all about possiblity. When you roll a die, there are six logical results but it is pure chance which one comes up. I'm not saying it's chance you're Irish. I'm saying it's chance that your parents Irish child is you. You are the result of millennia of chance encounters but the circumstance of those encounters and those involved logically leads to certain outcomes. You (being born to your parents) were always going to be Irish, I'm not denying that but it is chance that it was you who was conceived and born and not some other Irish person. What I meant when I said we were Irish by chance is that we ourselves had no choice or say in it, we are Irish by circumstance. My wording could have been better and I'm sorry for the confusion. Can we leave it at that?

Your analogy regarding family simply doesn't work because a family is built on personal connections and emotions. We are talking about citizens in the eyes of the law, the law cannot afford to be subjective in that manner, it must few all citizens equally to ensure all citizens are treated equally, the circumstances of citizenship are and should be irrelevant, your views and my views of what make a citizens are our views, they are subjective and bias. The law has to be above that and cannot discriminate. If we have embraced someone as a citizen we have a duty to treat them as such and not merely revoke it when it suits us.

I'm not happy about it and I don't condone it but I don't think it's any more heinous a crime than if a born Irish person committed it. I believe there are laws in place for dealing with crimes committed by non citizens but if we have granted citizenship to someone they should be treated and tried as any other citizen. The state has a responsibility to all its citizens just as the citizens have a responsibility to the state.

If someone, who has migrated here and been granted citizenship is found guilty of a criminal offence, then revoking Irish citizenship may well be appropriate if that person has dual citizenship of Ireland and their country of origin. If however they have only Irish citizenship, then revocation would effectively render them stateless, so in this case it could not (and should not) be done.

I think that similar considerations arose with some UK citizens who went off to fight for Islamic State.

We all favour treating everyone equally.

I'm in favour of punishing some people more than others.

Quoted...lest we forget.

But we're all treated differently all the time from everywhere, some of it accepted. There are restaurants that won't let me in unless I'm at minimum semi-formal, some full on formal. Most nightclubs won't let you in with full on tracksuit. There are parts of America white people can't go to (or can, but dare not). Similar for black folk. There are places that are access only for Emergency Services. It happens everywhere. The common theme is that if you act/behave a certain way and then be granted access, you're welcome. If not, you're not. If you behave in a certain way, you'll be ejected. Clubs, groups, societies, everything has terms and conditions, and if you agree and then breach, you're out.

Why isn't being granted Citizenship the same? You agree to behave and act in a certain manner in order to get it, so why shouldn't it be removed if you then cause issue? It's 100% not the same as being born here imo. Any form of citizenship outside of being born here is granted, and as such should also be able to be revoked. Yes, it's a much bigger issue, but the point stands. You illegally take from the country that was kind enough to grant citizenship, you should then have citizenship revoked and be ejected.

Re: the person that said if certain nationalities have their Irish citizenship removed, they have no other one. Well... they came from somewhere. I wouldn't expect Canada to sort out my issue if I didn't have Irish citizenship for some reason, even though being born in Ireland, and even if I was in Canada.