Western IQ's plummeting - Why?

01-07-2020 4:28pm

Chungwans don't need and don't have the patience for cooking their food without using the microwave.

God forbid don't hide the TV Remote from them, or the one for the DVD.

Don't loose the wireless gamepad or keyboard!

Only mum and dad (those of the bank if mum and dad)
use wired keyboards.

If it's not a power cord, it's insulting to ask a chungwan to use it.

Eduard Khil · 01-07-2020 4:31pm

Someone put lead in the food again it did for The Julio-Claudian dynasty and it's doing us no good neither. Still they had more orgies lucky Roman gits.

biko · 01-07-2020 5:47pm

Fret not, one day we'll all be ruled by the most intelligent of human races - East-Asians.

PISA 2015

biko · 01-07-2020 5:51pm

If we measure intelligence as thinking outside the box and discovering new things, how about new elements?

kowloon · 01-07-2020 8:17pm

biko wrote: »

If we measure intelligence as thinking outside the box and discovering new things, how about new elements?

The US and Russia are pretty advanced in large part due to their military research spending and space programmes. Britain used to lead the world in scientific development because of the empire, other European powers followed suit. Then there's just sheer population to account for.

4068ac1elhodqr · 01-07-2020 8:37pm

biko wrote: »

Fret not, one day we'll all be ruled by the most intelligent of human races - East-Asians.

PISA 2015

The uk has just offered circa 3million HK folks a pathway to residence. Maybe to counterbalance what as know as TOWIE, dumb celebs, instagrammers, and their now plagued city of Leicester. Maybe there is something in this afterall.

The Chinese & Indians actually earn more phr than anyone else (inc uk natives), bottom of the earnings list (p/hr) are Bangladeshi, Pakistan etc.

It's a good gesture to offer safe passage and residency, however not sure where the extra millions of new homes will magically appear from.

FVP3 · 02-07-2020 12:16pm

Alessandra Sparse Stew wrote: »

The uk has just offered circa 3million HK folks a pathway to residence. Maybe to counterbalance what as know as TOWIE, dumb celebs, instagrammers, and their now plagued city of Leicester. Maybe there is something in this afterall.

The Chinese & Indians actually earn more phr than anyone else (inc uk natives), bottom of the earnings list (p/hr) are Bangladeshi, Pakistan etc.

It's a good gesture to offer safe passage and residency, however not sure where the extra millions of new homes will magically appear from.

Must be a killer for brexit voters.

4068ac1elhodqr · 02-07-2020 12:39pm

FVP3 wrote: »

Must be a killer for brexit voters.

Chances are they'd actually very much welcome HK & Indians by the boat load. Both these sources of migration are fluent in English, the vast majority also enter by University applications (proper student visas, not lingo schools), then work PT on top of this.

The one thing brexiteers aren't keen on are boat/HGV loads of unknowns, often with limited language, education or skills. Whose intent is often welfare or back market activity, street begging, postcode gangs, or worse*

These points are already reflected by wages (p/hr) rates. Both the Chinese & Indians top the leaderboard.

Towards the bottom are folks such as the Pakistanis, who recent trail of *grooming gangs across dozens of cities in Eng, still leave a bitter taste there. It's also thought this particular behaviour is just the very tip of the iceberg.

splashuum · 02-07-2020 8:16pm

Alessandra Sparse Stew wrote: »

Chances are they'd actually very much welcome HK & Indians by the boat load. Both these sources of migration are fluent in English, the vast majority also enter by University applications (proper student visas, not lingo schools), then work PT on top of this.

The one thing brexiteers aren't keen on are boat/HGV loads of unknowns, often with limited language, education or skills. Whose intent is often welfare or back market activity, street begging, postcode gangs, or worse*

These points are already reflected by wages (p/hr) rates. Both the Chinese & Indians top the leaderboard.

Towards the bottom are folks such as the Pakistanis, who recent trail of *grooming gangs across dozens of cities in Eng, still leave a bitter taste there. It's also thought this particular behaviour is just the very tip of the iceberg.

Agreed. Brexiteers would be much more welcoming to the HK folk. Uneducated/unskilled non english speakers won’t integrate as well.

FVP3 · 02-07-2020 11:46pm

splashuum wrote: »

Agreed. Brexiteers would be much more welcoming to the HK folk. Uneducated/unskilled non english speakers won’t integrate as well.

Maybe, but I doubt it. I think the idea was to keep Britain, if not 100% white british, then more white british than it would be were it in the EU.

ohnonotgmail · 03-07-2020 9:10am

biko wrote: »

If we measure intelligence as thinking outside the box and discovering new things, how about new elements?

does that count the nation where the discovery was made or the nationality of the person who made the discovery?

Panrich · 03-07-2020 9:28am

Bandana boy wrote: »

Again a fundamental misunderstanding of how IQ tests work

IQ tests put you in the range of intelligence of a population that took this test
With 100 being exact mean
70 being 2.5 standard deviations below and 130 2.5 sd above

So the whole population can not drop as if people were more stupid the mean would just move and an IQ test would not catch this .
You can though measure sub populations averages in the whole population over time , and if the west is dropping it is just as easily if not more likely explained by the east and sub continents getting better and catching up with the west.

I would argue by any real means of measuring Intelligence across generations , it is most certainly going up over time.

There should be Victorian IQ tests and results available.
If these are given to people today then the results could be compared.

That would negate the measuring problem that you highlighted. That said, I’m not sure how the comparison for this study was done.

04-11-2021 3:16pm

Wasted time going down Social media rabbit holes. (Irony of this post is not lost )

04-11-2021 9:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/113908852#Comment_113908852

A lot of the British and American ones could have a little Irish flag on them due to our diaspora

JupiterKid · 07-11-2021 10:44am

I am not at all surprised at this rather depressing trend - there has been a notable "dumbing down" in the West for about 20+ years now. I also have little doubt that the internet, social media and all that vapid rubbish like the Kardashians, Married at First Sight etc. that passes as supposed "entertainment" on TV is partly to blame. We in the West are becoming too soft, lazy and self-indulgent in ways.

Also the squeezed middle in society who tend to place a high value on education are having far fewer children than the generation before them as was mentioned earlier on the thread. I also wonder, given the increased work, commuting and time pressures, how many parents still have the energy to read to their children in bed in the evenings these days?

I know from my own third level courses that I teach that spelling, grammar and basic punctuation in written work such as exam scripts and assignments have all taken a real nosedive over the past decade. 😔😒

Some of the exam scripts I mark make me wonder how on Earth these students got through second level and got the Leaving cert points to get onto the courses.

Danzy · 07-11-2021 10:58am

The education system has been progressively dumbed down.

The standard of writing in books that the public consume now Vs a century ago is very stark.

Education is not valued like it was in previous generations.

Take Ivanhoe, sitting on a bookshelf in this room, written 2 centuries ago, a hundred yr old book, well read,in my family. Mostly by previous generations who didn't get to go to secondary.

Would most studying English degrees now be able for it? I doubt it. Ivanhoe was a book for the masses. Jo Nesbo of the time reading material.

Let's not start with maths.

Victor · 07-11-2021 11:11am

"Western IQ's plummeting - Why?" Why? Threads like this.

amacca · 07-11-2021 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130599#Comment_118130599

they got through it because of shockingly poor disciplinary standards.....no one (except the teacher) suffers any real consequences for not making an effort in school....so many don't engage, do nothing and there are no real consequences for doing f all (at least during school - maybe in later life although less so now too.....its just not seen as important as it used to be by larger numbers of people)

because teachers aren't in charge to the degree they used to be

because a cohort of educational "researchers" push discredited nonsense so they can clamber their way to the top over their colleagues.....see "learning styles"

because huge amounts of a teachers time are sucked away from them doing box ticking ass covering pr exercises

because the least valued thing in a lot of schools is education....if you want to get a head its how much you are getting your mug in the local paper or what bullshit wellbeing initiative you are running......

you actually try to enforce standards you are fighting the hardest battle.

because large elements of society place little value on it and won't engage and make even half an effort...and a surprisingly large number of parents only pay lip service to being responsible for their kid or at the very least making an effort.....in fairness some f them simply don't have the time working/.commuting trying to make ends meet so they could afford to have kids in the first place...another cohort resent everything despite having so much handed to them.....a small number of them seemingly inhabit social media conspiracy theory echo chambers

because being a winner is valued...not necessarily being intelligent....and sometimes being a winner means you would clamber over your mother if it meant you had the name over the door regardless of the effectiveness or long term consequences of what you do...its about being seen to do even if its meaningless claptrap

you want general IQ levels raised, incentivise it......our society only incentivises a certain type of intelligence and attainment and its deteriorating over the last 30/40 years

etc etc

Black Swan · 07-11-2021 11:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058091657/western-iqs-plummeting-why

Specific name of the Victorian IQ test? Link to this specific test? Statistical probability distribution curve, including measures of reliability and validity, of those who had taken this IQ test during the Victorian era?

Danzy · 07-11-2021 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130674#Comment_118130674

It would be better if they left out the Victorian part, enough evidence as is.

The drop in educational standards in the last 30 years alone..

Danzy · 07-11-2021 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118319#Comment_118118319

And why aren't you in uniform?

07-11-2021 11:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130626#Comment_118130626

I would imagine the vast majority of people in English degrees would have no issue with it tbh. That's based on my own English degree which touched upon everything from Beowulf to The Canterbury Tales. 19th Century and older would be pretty normal.

I'd agree that reading has likely declined but also that's by virtue of fact there's a lot of media available. Also worth remembering that the novel was viewed as a time waster when it came about. So while you do have things like the Kardashians on TV. You also have things like Twin Peaks The Return which is pretty much viewed as arthouse cinema. You've got The Wire, Breaking Bad and others on top of that. So as in previous generations, you have trashy content on top of content that would be viewed as superb in any generation.

I also don't agree on the quality of book writing. It's stylistically different, it's not necessarily dense but being dense or loquacious doesn't define the quality of a book. Shakespeare is still easily accessible and that would make me think there's far from that dramatic a decline in the written word. Examples of great writers in the last few years include Colson Whitehead, Kazuo Ishiguro, Cormac McCarthy, Amor Towles, Maggie O'Farrell.

So while none of them are necessarily to your taste but we've still had plenty of great literature that continues to be produced year on year. And they generally tend to sell pretty well.

07-11-2021 11:47am

Survival was more difficult back in Victorian times (the same has been said about Roman times too) In order to get children to adulthood safely would often require a little more intelligence. Maybe the dumber back then couldn’t navigate their children safely to adulthood as well as the higher IQ people. Just a small difference in survival rates could have an effect.

We have great safety nets these days in terms of medical care and welfare too that just weren’t available back then.

Black Swan · 07-11-2021 12:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130689#Comment_118130689

I would be very cautious about suggestions that IQs, or any other factors, may be changing from one age to another. This is a measurement issue. A longitudinal measurement of empirical, objective data between vastly different time periods with substantial cultural, social, economic, educational, language, etc, differences.

IQ tests are quantitative measures. Quantitative differences can be measured statistically, and their estimates of error, reliability, and validity calculated. Of course there are other substantial considerations when attempting to measure something or someone in addition to estimates of differences. Statistical estimates are a necessary but insufficient condition to establish validity.

The first IQ test was developed in 1905 by the French called the Binet-Simon Scale. The Victorian age occurred earlier beginning June 1837 and ending January 1901. For empirically rigorous comparison purposes, how can we measure the differences between a quantitative IQ test of today with one that did not exist during the Victorian age?

ululator · 07-11-2021 3:03pm

There is a war on reality, perpetrated by mainstream media and backed by shucksters and politicians alike to make money.

Of course it will negatively impact on general intelligence.

zom · 07-11-2021 3:12pm

I'm surprised to see this racist thread be allowed on board.ie

08-11-2021 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/113886004#Comment_113886004

It's like the great Louis CK comedy clip of "Of course.........buy Maybe....."

As in, "of course we should cater to nut allergies..........but Maybe....if we all go like this for a year (covers eyes with hands), then we're done with nut allergies".

"Of course, we should respect nut allergies.....but Maybe if touching a nut kills you, you're supposed to die......."

10-11-2021 12:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/113885994#Comment_113885994

Stealing the stupid jobs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/113886307#Comment_113886307

The rich used to survive because of many reasons prior to the modern era. Better nutrition and housing, better medicine and son on. Rich isn't smart though, although I suppose the smarter poor could be more resourceful.

The guy who suggested a 14 IQ fall (Edward Dutton) is talking off his rocker though, he bases it all on reaction times. In reality measured IQ has increased by 15 points or so, until very recently, with a small fall in the last decade. The is called the Flynn effect.

Effectively what Dutton is saying is that we are all genotypically 14 points stupider than the 19C but the Flynn effect is adding 30 points to that. Since phenotype is the only thing we can really measure, we can hardly take him seriously. In any case its like saying that we are smaller than the 19C even though we are taller. The only IQ you can measure is the actual results of humans on the IQ test. Reaction times are a bad proxy and likely to be totally mismeasured anyway.

Black Swan · 12-11-2021 5:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/113922856#Comment_113922856

Please see my earlier post. The first IQ test did not occur until a few years after the Victorian age ended. Plus IQ testing has evolved over the past century. For example, there are several different tests, making it problematic to compare those of today with the first one that occurred in France. Added to this, there may have been sampling issues that would complicate population comparisons, thereby questioning the reliability of measurement.

saabsaab · 12-11-2021 5:41pm

At the end of the nineteenth century life was harder for people so you had to be smart to stay alive. There were wars and diseases to reduce the population especially the less fit so they diddn't get a chance to reproduce. Those pressures aren't there anymore in the West not in the last 70 years anyway.

Western IQ's plummeting - Why?

Comments