Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Options
1263264266268269350

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    No, thought it was apt with so many ifs and buts and wild flights of fantasy in the thread.

    There were initially in or around 350 potential lines of investigation, narrowed down to about a dozen or so named suspects at different times in the media but nothing concrete to connect any to the murder, nothing more than ifs and buts, rumour, innuendo and wild speculation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Have we ruled out a beggar on horseback? It could explain a lot...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,690 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    " but nothing concrete to connect any to the murder"

    Apart from the block!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I understand your point. However Jules motive to talk wouldn't be about "getting off the hook", - she is not a suspect in the case. Also 25 years onwards, it's hard to believe that a judge would take her statement serious, also memory fades during such a timespan. I also believe that she was questioned extensively back then, even in custody for a while, and she would hardly state she lied back then and is now telling the truth.

    Whoever did the murder got clean away. The lack of absence of evidence fuelled the speculation and the Garda's corruption, incompetence and the exclusive focus on Bailey hindered a broader approach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Well, they've been split up a while now, at least 3 months I believe and there hasnt been a pip out of her. Also, in the documentaries, especially the Jim Sheridan one, she seemed utterly convinced of his innocence & was one of the first reasons why I started to believe Bailey was innocent of this crime. I refuse to believe that after all those years of living with someone, that Bailey wouldn't have given at least some serious hints to her that he committed the crime. But zilch, nada, nothing, either that or she is an extremely convincing liar which I don't believe to be the case.

    Also, in relation to your doubts that there was a massive garda coverup operation. No one has ever said there was a massive coverup, there didnt need to be. All it took was a few (even 2 or 3) senior officers in the locality to steer the investigation in the manner it went. There was no coverup from Forensics in Dublin because there was hardly any forensics found at the scene at all aside from Sophie, either the scene was purposely cleaned up before Forensics arrived or the perpetrator got extremely lucky. Either could be true. Then we have the disposal & losing of key pieces of evidence.

    You say there's no evidence that a Gard committed this crime but there's no evidence that Bailey did either. You again, like other previous posters are attempting to convict him off previous domestic violence issues with Jules which is nowhere near enough to paint someone as a murderer.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Agree. I find it really annoying when I read things like "Jules can open up now, she's no reason to lie". The reality is she's got absolutely nothing to say and nothing to hide.

    The same people that mock about a garda cover up say there was a cover up involving Jules! Hypocrisy much.

    Like Jim said, there didn't have to be a huge garda cover up, just a few key players, and looking at the case in depth, it's quite clear that the same ones who coerced and bribed witnesses, complained that their colleagues were "too honest" and dealt with Marie Farrell are the likely suspects.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    Tbh with you, there's much more reason to believe a garda coverup than a Jules coverup. Like, what has she ever done to be accused of lying & aiding a murderer, sweet **** all. Seems like a decent individual by all accounts. Now, the gards on the other hand, I think there's ample reason to believe a coverup from them, I mean its hard to find another investigation in recent times which had so much incompetence & corruption but some posters still believe that, ah sure, they were only doing their best & were right to try & stitch up an innocent man because he's not a likeable individual. Beggars belief.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The McBrearty case. Morris tribunal. 2 months before this murder. Utter corruption, very similar tactics.

    The only difference between the cases really is they could afford a private investigator and to fight the Gards and the state, which they did and won.

    A deep delve into that case is needed for anyone who thinks we're conspiracy theorists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭Deeec



    There is no way Jules would have covered for Bailey. She had 3 young daughters living in the house with her - if he was the murderer she would not have had him in the same house as her kids. No mother would put her children at risk from a murderer. Neither was she financially reliant on Bailey - in fact he seemed to rely on her financially. If she was in fear of Bailey all she had to do was say he murdered Sophie and he would have been locked up and out of their lives.

    Im afraid those people hoping Jules will now ' reveal all' are very wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,334 ✭✭✭robwen




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭omega666



    Its bizare that people think Jules would not cover up for Ian. He beat her to a pulp on a number of occasions and yet she stuck by him and never pressed any charges or kicked him out. Even with her young children there. Maybe she loved him, maybe she was afraid of him, who know. But if she stuck with him through the beatings then why wouldnt she stick with him knowing he murdered someone.

    Also, seem convienent that this witness has come forward after 20 years of saying noting just at the same time that IB and Julles split up. I think we can guess who it is that the person is accusing of confessing to washing the bloody clothes.

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/witness-gives-gardai-fresh-statement-24711816



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Regarding a Garda cover-up, things are very obvious to me that they intentionally steered the investigation into a certain direction. Giving money, drugs and clothes to Martin Graham to get close to Bailey, or convincing Marie Farrell to make false whiteness statements in court, it's more than cover-up and wrong doing on behalf of the Gards, I'd say. And then none of the Gards lost their job over this? It's a bit odd, I think.

    Regarding lack of evidence, it's possible that the killer never even entered Sophie's house at all, thus he could have been certain, that no evidence incriminating him later on was ever there. The laced up boots on Sophie's feet would lead to suggest that she left the house voluntarily and not in urgency, as the boots would have taken quite some time to lace up. And if the killer hit Sophie unexpectedly from behind he would not have left many marks either.

    Also to date we can't be certain that the hatchet was ever really used to deliver the first blow, or where Sophie's diary went, or how it was lost. The killer could have taken it, but he could also not have. If the killer took the diary as he expected to find incriminating evidence in there, he would have destroyed it quickly as it's the only thing, together with the hatchet which could link him to the crime scene.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    A three month old newspaper article which Jules Thomas has already discounted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,334 ✭✭✭robwen


    Yeah she denies it in the very article I linked in the post before Omega666 post



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    Jules very likely had never even heard of Sophie. She didn't know anything about how Sophie had some issue about the ownership of a shed that people here have said was with her estate agent and not Alfie Lyons. Although I can only assume she found out she didn't own it by Alfie telling her that he did. How was that story playing out at the time of her murder? Alfie wouldn't have been too happy to think that here was someone trying to dispossess him of property that in today's money might be worth up to 20 grand. Maybe Shirley Foster could tell us something about that or could she be covering up for Alfie?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    We don't know if Jules knew Sophie or not. I would largely guess that Jules just knew that the house was a holiday home for some French woman, nothing more than that. It's probably hard to keep a secret who owns what house or not in this kind of rural community.

    Regarding that shed, it doesn't seem to matter if Sophie liked or disliked the idea that Alfie and Shirley owned the shed or not. The answer would have been in the maps the land registry would have kept. The only thing could have been is that the estate agent may have lied either by intention or not knowing that the shed would belong to the house Sophie bought and just stated something to please the client, close the sale and cash in on the commission. I don't think that any dispute around this could have lead to the murder as the facts regarding ownership were still supported by the land registry. Also, it's unlikely that Sophie didn't see any maps of the place, before buying, - so there must have been clarity on who owns what and where the borders of that plot of land would have been.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    They actually mention the unknown blood/dna!! Never mind it was discovered 10 years ago..



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,690 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Let's hope it turns up some new evidence.

    Checking alibis and statements now will be difficult, forensics may be the key.

    I believe the concrete block will give up a new clue, it's the only thing we know for sure the killer handled, but whether it can be followed through is another thing.

    'Every contact leaves a trace' no matter how miniscule, so if the block has been preserved properly evidence may be found it,

    whether it's DNA or material from a glove even the smallest bit can be analysed now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The question is why wait so long and for those two documentaries to appear, for the Guards to finally come to their senses and examine the rest of the evidence they have? So, am I correct to understand, the Guards still have kept the concrete block which was used to kill Sophie? All they need to do is match the unknown blood and DNA from the block to the potential killer.

    Both Alfie and the Guard from Bantry are now dead, but do they have DNA of them as well? I presume they have it from Alfie, but when it comes to the Guard from Bantry they would have to look for his relatives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    We can assume that Sophie believed it to be her property and we have been told that it 'transferred' to her son some years later. No details as to whether it was sold to him. You say "it doesn't seem to matter if Sophie liked or disliked the idea that Alfie and Shirley owned the shed or not.", but it appears to have mattered enough for her to have gone back to the estate agent about it.

    What I am more interested in is whether Alfie was the person who let her know that it was his and on what basis he believed so. If it was there in black and white in the land registry, which you appear certain of for some reason, Sophie would have had no issue with Alfie. But why is it not clear about the 'sale' to her son?

    Since people are prepared to speculate about some far-fetched scenarios, I think it's reasonable to wonder about the nature of the conversation where Sophie was, maybe, advised that she may have been hoodwinked when she signed for the property. It would most likely have been Alfie who told her and he might well have been sympathising with her or they might even have laughed about it; "wha'? he told you it was yours when it's actually mine. I wouldn't put it past whatshisname".

    Of course Alfie might have considered selling it to Mrs. Moneybags from France. It would be great if Shirley Foster could be asked about this particular issue.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Much as I'd love to have your optimism, it just seems really unlikely they'd consider the garda. If it is the truth, and I personally think it is, can you imagine what would happen if that came out? They'll never allow it.

    I've no idea if they have the concrete block or bottle of wine, but there is the dna sample on Sophies boot I really hope they get to the bottom of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,155 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Yes what you're saying is the right approach to this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "Preserved properly" is the key.

    I hope I am wrong on this, and new forensics comes to light - but I would not have confidence these items have been stored 'sterile'.

    The concern I would have about running very sensitive tests for evidence of that scale (i.e. down to DNA cells), is that contamination can occur very easily.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    And if they find Alfie's blood/DNA on a block that he could quite reasonably have been handling only the day before the murder we have a breakthrough?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The problem when buying property is often that the buyer sees the situation too optimistic, too much in his / her favour whatever it is. Also buyers often tend to overlook certain flaws, once they have set their minds to it.

    The estate agent would have later on not been able to solve a possible neighbour dispute between Alfie, Shirley and Sophie. Ultimately it's what is recorded in the land registry regarding the size of the plot the house is on, thus I believe only what's recorded in the land registry provides a certain answer. Verbal communication rarely supersedes written contracts or official entries in records.

    The only person we can ask about that would be Shirley. Maybe the Richardsons have an answer to this?

    Today both houses have new owners, Sophie's son and his family and somebody who bought the house once Shirley moved away. Do these neighbours have an argument over the shed as well? They probably don't or we may have read about it by now?

    I am not really to optimistic either, but I'd suggest that Drew Harris will have a problem and be facing "certain questions" if the DNA sample can't be matched to anybody and the line of enquiry of this particular Guard from Bantry is not followed up upon at all, that is if all the other suspects don't match. Ireland is not a dictatorship, and I am sure, Drew Harris will have to account for his actions at some point. He can probably refuse to do that, but rumors, speculations and even accusations will then only continue. Also Drew Harris wasn't in charge when the crime and the failed investigation happened, thus all the wrongdoings aren't down to his responsibility. The only positive could be that Bailey would be excluded as a suspect once and for all, - could be, I'd like to emphasise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Well, apparently Alfie's declared physical condition was such that he would not have been able to lift concrete blocks, so if he was handling it something doesn't add up (not necessarily murder!).

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    There will be much political pressure on Drew Harris behind the scenes to ensure any new material uncovered does not exonerate Bailey. It'll be subliminal messaging, not direct pressure. There would be a political fiasco if the Gardai now find evidence to exonerate Bailey with France already having found him guilty of murder in their trial.



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    That block could have been holding open the gate so anybody could have touched/moved it in the years before the murder. If DNA can be found on something that was first identified as evidence 25 years ago how do we know it wasn't there from some time in the last 40?



  • Registered Users Posts: 662 ✭✭✭mamboozle


    Yes, unfortunately that's most likely. I don't believe we'll hear anything until Ian Bailey dies and then only that the investigation was inconclusive.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    A concrete block exposed to the elements would have DNA cells washed off \ degraded \ destroyed by rain and ultraviolet sunshine.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement