Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

irelandrover · 04-11-2021 4:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118646#Comment_118118646

Almost every player selected is first choice for the position. That's fine for a six nations game or a game against NZ but in a game against Japan it is conservative.

ClanofLams · 04-11-2021 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118646#Comment_118118646

We know what many of these players offer. Not going to learn anything about Bundee on Saturday Frawley could have been given an opportunity. Robert Balacoune another that should have gotten an opportunity, again we know what Conway/Earls bring & Lowe had opportunities already.

lawrencesummers · 04-11-2021 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118648#Comment_118118648

Carbery cant cover a cracker with nutella currently and larmour hasnt played 13 since the butchers in wuhan decided bats taste nice.

starkid · 04-11-2021 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118646#Comment_118118646

how many ways can this be explained? take the conservatism as a 3 match block and then futher on. so this is essentially the side for NZ. Unless they beat NZ are we going to see much change against Argentina? and then we roll into another 6 nations with the incumbents. Because of course we can't throw a,b or c in cause he hasn't been tested...

The bench, 10, 11,14, and even 9 are all conservative picks based on no reality whatsoever.

Theres nothing many of us can say to you if you can't see this simple fact. IF you can't see why this is a conservative selection against japan, i don't know what to tell you. like many posters on here you refuse to countenance any negative angle. Simply put this is Farrell's make or break season imo. He might limp on as head coach but he will lose any of the fans backing if he continues on with the way it is selected and coached. there's not much goodwill left.

All of this is in the context that AF has been somewhat progressive in this regard. it would be preverse to say otherwise. But like Kenny in football some of it makes no sense. Either go all in or don't bother. Nothing to be learnt by having HEaly, Earls, POM, COnway involved here. These are 4 guys who's ship have sailed.

salmocab · 04-11-2021 4:40pm

How is JGP a conservative pick? I can see people having an argument that he shouldn’t be picked but I don’t see how it’s a conservative pick.

actually same for Lowe.

sydthebeat · 04-11-2021 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118776#Comment_118118776

for some people conservative = picking anyone older than 22

aloooof · 04-11-2021 4:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118746#Comment_118118746

“Fans backing” seems a bit strong, tbh. I remember some posters on here hammering him before he even named his first squad meet-up back in Dec 2019.

salmocab · 04-11-2021 4:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118783#Comment_118118783

Ah so carbery should be picked because he’s second choice but that doesn’t extend to scrum half. It’s very complicated so it is.

Dubinusa · 04-11-2021 4:57pm

I reckon Earls and POM come right back into the line up v NZ.

This is a busted nut 23! The opportunity to get meaningful minutes for young players is wasted. Even if the bench was loaded with veterans, surely a younger side would be the way to go.

The Euro's and the domestic league going forward will most likely not make much of a difference for 6nations selection. JGP will probably be the 2nd option for Leinster and will probably still play the 6nations. Healy too will feature in the 6nations. Even as his play has detiorated over the last year!

We lose this week and Farrell should be fired! I've been in his corner since his tenure began, but selecting the Leinster team is not good for us! Leinster can't win Europe! It's a step backwards not to challenge O'Toole; Timoney and Casey.

pickarooney · 04-11-2021 5:00pm

Leinster, Leinster cast offs and NZ rejects. Great to see all three feeder streams produce the goods

Former Former Former · 04-11-2021 5:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118776#Comment_118118776

Exactly.

James Lowe is equally likely to create a stunning try from nothing or have an absolute calamity in defence.

A conservative selection it is not.

Luckycharm · 04-11-2021 5:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118860#Comment_118118860

Except the teams they play in Europe aren't made up of players just from the one country while the Leinster squad pretty much is. La Rochelle, A few BOKs/Kiwis/ Ozzies with the a couple of french lads.

Looking forward to seeing how this Pack goes most Dynamic we have put out in a long time plus Sheehan from the bench. People whine about Murray being slow to breakdown and just kicking everything away, for his faults that def ain't what JGP does. The Japs will really test Lowes defence so sink or swim for him. Conway has done nothing to justify selection looks to have lost a yard of pace. I think Ringrose needs a decent game as well or Hume could be putting him under pressure. Would have like to have seen Balocounne or Mack on the bench.

TRC10 · 04-11-2021 5:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118904#Comment_118118904

The problem isn't that it's conservative, the problem is that it's piss poor and makes no sense

Rattlehead_ie · 04-11-2021 5:14pm

Suppose its the definition of what conservative is. Is it

"for some people conservative = picking anyone older than 22" or maybe its

"anyone who has more that 10 caps"

While not everyone calling it "conservative" may be wrong or right, but Id be pretty sure there would still be people calling it conservative if the starting 15 had Murray Kinsella, Geordan Murphy and Phil from #78 down the road in it.

Dubinusa · 04-11-2021 5:16pm

We should absolutely hammer the spanking out of Japan this week. That's not ideal though because, this selection is very close to full strenght. New players don't learn playing the likes of Italy, USA etc!

That's the only issue that I have!

Dubinusa · 04-11-2021 5:30pm

Lads in 2 years time, what will be the make up of our strongest 23? Of course injury aside. I think that in order to have any kind of chance to go deep into a world cup, this line up needs a fix up!

Anyone?

awec · 04-11-2021 5:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118872#Comment_118118872

I know you're being flippant but the state of Irish Rugby right now should be keeping the IRFU awake at night.

Look at the starting team. 12 of the 15 are from one province, and it is hard to argue against any of those selections. James Lowe you can argue against, but he could easily just be replaced by Larmour. Of the 3 remaining - Conway and Aki could easily be replaced with more Leinster players and you wouldn't be able to call it unfair. Even on the bench, Sheehan over Herring is a surprise call but Herring has never been anything more than a stopgap player so it's not a massive surprise. Fair play to them all for getting picked, and fair play to Leinster for producing so many players.

But when it comes to producing Ireland players it is clear that the gap between the haves and the have nots is getting wider, not narrower. Ireland are now completely reliant on one team. If the IRFU have had a policy to address this then it has completely failed and a rethink is required.

For all their talk of #TeamOfUs and "four proud provinces", the reality is that Team Ireland is nothing of the sort right now. We may hope that the Leinster schools gravy train never stops running.

molloyjh · 04-11-2021 5:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118933#Comment_118118933

Both Lowe and Zebo have powerful left boots and can be used as playmaking options. Two things the other wingers don’t really have. Lowe has actually used both of these to good effect so far this season at Leinster. Zebo hasn’t so much.

There is sense there. To suggest there isn’t means you think Farrell is making selection decisions for absolutely no reason and effectively pulling it out his back side. Do you really think that’s what he is doing? Or would it be worth, when you think something like “this makes no sense”, considering Farrells perspective to see if you can find the sense? You not seeing it does not mean it isn’t there. You’re inability to find any sense in a decision speaks only to your inability to find it. There is always sense. You may not agree with it but that’s a different thing entirely.

Dubinusa · 04-11-2021 5:49pm

My fear is if we beat NZ or run them close then the options will be most likely set in stone. I think it's hard to remove a regular international. Look at Murray and Sexton when they were dire!

I really do think we can upset NZ. Of course, we may get a hiding, but I don't see that happening. This series could be pivotal for us! One way or another.

awec · 04-11-2021 5:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119106#Comment_118119106

Ah I think you're over thinking the importance of these games. In the grand scheme of things they mean very little. The only way there is any long term consequence off the back of these games is if we get humped by NZ again.

sydthebeat · 04-11-2021 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119056#Comment_118119056

We may hope that the Leinster schools gravy train never stops running.

and you see THAT there is the exact problem with fans from other provinces.

your first reaction to this is to 'damn with faint praise' the leinster system... without even thinking of looking inwards are yourselves and asking why the fcuk has it got to this?

why have ulster not produced a decent prop in the professional era?

what has gone wrong with munsters development if they can no longer get a munster produced forward into an irish test side?

Connacht have always had an uphill struggle and i actually see them as developing and on an upward trajectory.. but munster and ulster have no excuse.

sure, lets hope that the leinster gravy train doesnt stop churning out quality players, because we'd be fcuked if we were dependent on the other provinces

awec · 04-11-2021 6:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119236#Comment_118119236

That's the entire point sydthebeat, though I am not sure why you are asking any of us to look inward since it's not up to us to fix this. I would have thought that the lack of output at the other provinces is not down to a lack of trying, so therefore there is something else wrong.

This is a failure at a national level. Yes, I am sure there is plenty of inward inflection at a provincial level to be done, but the IRFU have overall authority over rugby here, they are the only entity with the top down view on the whole overall system and whatever policies, actions or whatever they've been taking to try and bridge the gap are not working. The IRFU have a high performance director, this is his job.

They need to ask themselves the questions you pose and then some more. Should they be getting harder on moving players out of Leinster? Is it a funding issue? Do they need to increase the funding to Ulster, Munster and Connacht? Is it a personnel issue? Do they need to be changing the people in key positions at the other provinces? Is it a structural problem?

molloyjh · 04-11-2021 6:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119236#Comment_118119236

Is awecs point not exactly that? That because of the other provinces struggles we all just have to cross our fingers that Leinster can continue to churn out talent. Because if they don’t…..

UAEguy2020 · 04-11-2021 6:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118961#Comment_118118961

Hammering Japan is the only way this selection could be justified, it would be okay to stumble a-bit if we made a-few changes as the players may need some time to settle at this level which is normal but with this team there is no excuse. The handicap right now is 17 points for Ireland and quite frankly anything less than a 20 point win with that team selection should be seen as a disappointment, we won by 8 in the summer despite some absolute defensive blunders (especially for atleast 2 of the Japan tries) , missing all the Lions players and again looking at different players in different positions but with this selection we really should be putting these guys to the sword. The issue is even in those circumstances what will we learn? The only benefit will be some players will get some minutes in the legs but bar Dan Sheehan getting some minutes off the bench I dont see what will be learnt for the players?

UAEguy2020 · 04-11-2021 6:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119106#Comment_118119106

I dont think if they are they will be for long, we all know that what Ireland is doing with some of these situations will not end well, yes we might see a good performance against NZL and who knows maybe even a win but even if we do I would expect the 6N to expose these flaws, plenty of teams have flaws but manage to get up for one big game (we did versus England in March & SA did versus NZL in the RC) but ultimately these teams get exposed and probably the best example of them all was Ireland in the 2016/2017 season, we beat the AB's and then in the following 6N we still the same dour rugby that gets exposed by Scotland & Wales.