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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,564 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Ive no issue with imports, irish rugby in general would not be where it is without them.

    But if we are going to give opportunity in the national team to some imported mercenary deemed not good enough for their own country then they should be better than anything we have.

    There is no way that Lowe, JGP and burns for that matter are better than any of the Irish options available and its a fcking disgrace that homegrown players are being overlooked for these mediocre imports.


    another thing, if james lowe played for any other province he wouldn't be getting another opportunity like he is now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I don't think that's accurate for any of the criticisms people are making about this selection. Farrell is using this game as a front line rehearsal for the ABs, that's clearly the priority, rather than using any of the new prospects to get meaningful game against top flight opposition outside of competition. I don't think it's mad to rub your chin at Sexton starting (meaning he likely starts at least 2 of 3 games) instead of Carbery or even HB. Sexton has come straight back into top flight games and done fine. I doubt there's a lot going on with team tactics that he isn't intimately familiar with and he could still get 30 minutes off the bench. Same goes for Conor in the 23, I'm assuming that's to get him going for the ABs in which case it will have nothing to do with his form. You could say the same for POM and Aki and Earls (though their form is better than CM's). Additionally if Murray is playing against the ABs I'd say tactically we are setting up for a hammering. Lowe's selection is maybe easier to understand but it suggests that Farrell is backing him for what he can do rather than what's he's done in green. Like others have said, unless we paste Japan this will be one that got away selection wise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I think Lowe is on his secret squirrel last chance. There's no justification to keep him on board if he's as bad as he has been. I expect him to improve! There's no way that a guy playing international and 1st team rugby for Leinster could be this poor? But, time is running out, there's other options available and some are better, imo. If he doesn't show any defensive improvement, he should be moved on. I say that over the course of the next 6 months.

    He probably will be better. I can't see how he couldn't be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,051 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer



    Your last point, what? Farrell has zero connection to Leinster. What are you talking about?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,866 ✭✭✭Former Former Former




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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,975 ✭✭✭nerd69


    I don't like Lowe In their either but I'd wager his big left boot is seen as his main appeal at this point



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    You are equally not an Irish fan if you wilfully ignore all the problems and are happy for us to walk off a cliff knowing. Its good atleast some of us are acknowledging our pending disaster by doing what we are doing 2 years before it happens as now we have time to fix it, normally it takes us until its too late to stop it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,564 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    If any winger made those glaring defensive errors like lowe did they wouldnt see the squad again.


    Its baffling that lowe is back there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    There are alot of Irish players who rarely play their natural game for Ireland, we arent exactly the best of getting the best out of our squad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35 MowldyCabbage


    Thought there were some interesting selections when I seen the squad. But did not expect the complete uproar there has been over it.

    Lowe I'm surprised to see but not disappointed to see. Definitely his last opportunity to come good at this level but he's well capable of doing it and he could be a pretty useful player to have over the next few years if things work out for him. He's in decent form for Leinster this season too.

    JGP I don't have an issue with. I thought he was excellent when he played for Ireland previously. I understand frustrations about not giving game time to younger players but it's not exactly the travesty people are making out.

    Looking forward to the game!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,564 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    burns has never shown anything in Ulster that warranted his inclusion in the Irish set up ahead of players produced here. he is the perfect example of a very very average import taking a place that he didnt deserve or earn, the fact that he isnt in the squad now just proves my point both from a historic point. He wasnt good enough then and he isnt good enough now.

    Nothing bitter about lowes inclusion, he just doesnt to be included and there is a clear bias towards leinster players over others that is nothing to do with begrudgery.

    The ignoring of connacht players like TOH, buckley, muldoon over the years, munster players like zebo, ulster players like ballacoune. Name one leinster player that should have but wasnt included and you might be able to refute my point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,748 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Now this is how it should be done. “I don’t agree with the selection, but I’ve made an attempt to understand it as opposed to just outright ridicule it”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Any thoughts on our possible strategy for Japan?

    their team looks mobile so I’d assume we’ll get their trade-mark style of fast-paced exciting attack from them but maybe our pack will create a lot of opportunities for us to keep possession and build phases.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Japan will definitely stretch Lowe defensively, so we'll get a pretty good idea if his previous mistakes were a poor run of form, or something more fundamental. Also hope for Lowe that Farrell and Catt will have put some better attacking structures together so we can get the best out of him going forward.

    Drico mentioning it's a big season for Garry Ringrose as well. Hopefully he can put his injury issues behind him and push onto the next level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    What was the context of Sextons comment? Was that off the back of questions about him playing in the World Cup? “One swallow does not a summer make”.

    Posters on here and pundits make a big thing about cycles between world cups. The setup itself, take it one game or one block of games at a time. There will of course always be a focus on development.

    I’m sure the IRFU would love to get past a quarter final in the RWC. But consistent performances that lead to full houses and commercial endorsements are far more important. Therefore any coach is going to select to win the games in front of them. Not some possible game in two years time.

    You want to sacrifice our strongest team to get experience for other players. Which would probably lead to us getting thumped by NZ like Wales did. Though I somehow suspect that would make you very happy if we do get thumped.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,977 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    " ignoring of connacht players like TOH, buckley, muldoon over the years, munster players like zebo, ulster players like ballacoune. Name one leinster player that should have but wasnt included and you might be able to refute my point."


    Balacoune, I agree but he had some bad luck timing wise with injuries didn't he? And he's in the squad now isn't he?

    You are having a laugh with the other names though. I know Zebo is back and he's very lucky he is with his self centred attitude.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,094 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Listening to Murray Kinsella and Bernard Jackman on the 42 Rugby podcast. They're both in agreement about the pack looking pretty good.

    Farrell had a blueprint of what be wanted his forwards to be and he's brought that to fruition. They're abrasive and extremely athletic with well rounded skillsets. Every forward from 1-8 is comfortable in handling the ball and linking and offloading.

    Both pundits think the next test is to utilise the forwards effectively. We have genuine playmakers in all units of the pack and if they're just asked to bash through walls it will be a huge waste.



  • Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭VayNiice


    Luke McGrath and Rhys Ruddock.


    If you're going to list guys like Muldoon and TOH, how about Conan before Gatland picked him as a lion being left out for years? What about young guys like Penny and Josh Murphy who have never been involved.

    The idea that Farrell who has no connection with leinster is biased towards them is complete horse **** from "fans" who are bitter about leinsters success in recent years. Maybe Leinster just have better players?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,564 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Conan was kept out by CJ, and had CJ not retired then conan would have had the summer off.


    Luke mcgrath has had plenty of games and its being kept out of the leinster and irish team by a leinster player. You cant claim that as bias.


    I completely agree that Leinster have better players, a completely general statement thats irrelevant to ignoring of lowes terrible performances for ireland



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    One thing I'd have a small concern about is that we'll miss CJ's physically, particularly in the aspect of his ability to stop guys dead behind the gainline. The guys we have are all quality back-rows, but I'm not sure any of them have the same strength in the tackle.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,564 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    If zebo has a ‘self centered attitude” then i would be very interested to know what you call sextons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    CJ only retired after the summer series window. He was available to the Lions but wasn’t selected, Conan was.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Is Doris up to that physicality?

    Conan isn’t that type of player, he’s more of a runner than a crash ball man. I doubt he would make huge dominant tackles like CJ did, but he’ll bring other attributes to 8.

    maybe Coombes or Deegan woul, definitely Ruddock could.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Josh Murphy? There's no way he's anywhere near Irish inclusion, imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,258 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    to be fair, Earls was long a defensive liability. I don't think Lowe deserves a spot, but he looked better in Leinster's recent games.



  • Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭VayNiice


    You're saying there is a Leinster bias because Lowe is picked. Why would Farrell have a bias towards leinster?


    McGrath is still a superior player to Murray and Casey and is left out. Is that a Munster bias then?

    CJ and POM played a load of stinkers and were always retained ahead of Ruddock and Conan, is that a bias towards munster?


    There is no bias in this setup. Maybe Farrell has his favourites, fair enough, but that's not a bias towards a club



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Japan have no locks. We can probably just kick to the corner and maul over tries if winning is the only objective.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    He was in his very early career, some of that at 13. But Lowe is 29. He has less time to turn it around. And Earls long been a defensive lynchpin for years and years since.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,258 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Earls is solid these days, and I've really enjoyed his renaissance over the last few seasons. Defensive lynchpin might be slightly over egging things 😉



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  • Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭VayNiice


    Ever seen him play? He's good enough to be called into the wider squad. Im not suggesting he'd be involved in a 23, but with all this bullshit about leaving out X young munster lad or Y young connacht lad I'm making the point that there are young leinster lads too who aren't included in these squads



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