PUP fraud €183k, should the guilty be stripped of citizenship?

No evidence? What evidence would you accept exactly?

Perhaps you need to contact the Repatriation Division, INIS, department of justice, Burgh Quay, Dublin 2.

They might give you the figures you need.

You're right, in a way, but it's more that my attachment to BS generic metaphysical notions like 'Irish indentity' and 'Irishness' is extremely weak. Legal aspects and answer aside, What is Irish identity? (Answer: a BS metaphysical concept). Identity politics is for children, race baiters, race hustlers, patriots and other thicks with 'good' intentions.

I wonder if you realise that by dismissing the importance of National or cultural identity (Irishness), you're actually advocating identity politics, since that's been one of the primary arguments for multiculturalism and mass immigration. The social sciences have sought to show that national identity (for western nations) or any degree of nationalism as being a negative, which is why, supposedly, the idea of embracing a society of many cultures is a good thing. Diversity is our strength.

It's all connected to identity politics, because as the identity of the native group comes under attack, the identity of "minority" groups becomes more important, to justify the favorable terms extended to them.

I'd agree with you that our national identity has become a vague thing, with little relevance to modern society, but I'd point to the influence of American social science theory during last 30 years, which has been embraced by governments. There has been a social movement in the west to decrease the significance of Irish (or other western cultures).

I've had more in common with people from the arse end of Mexico and big cities in the U.S. than I have in common with many Irish people. Doesn't mean one place is better or worse. It means we are indivduals first and foremost.

Completely agree with you. I had extremely little in common with the Irish culture I grew up in, and always felt I had more in common with those I met abroad. We are individuals... but there is still a macro in addition to the micro. Many people do conform to national cultures or stereotypes. This can be seen in many countries around the world, especially those with a long history where cultural conformity was strong. ie,. Asia being a prime example, where the national culture can be seen in most people you meet, although individually, they'll display differences... however, place them into a group, and their individuality is submerged by the group consciousness, and what is considered acceptable patterns of behavior.

At the end of the day we vote with our feet. If a Somalian has spent more days with his or her feet on the ground in Ireland than I have over the past 20+ years (and they will have), then I have zero trouble saying that they are more familiar with everyday life in Ireland than I am and likely they have a stronger attachment to Ireland too.

Maybe, but I highly doubt it because they (Somalians) didn't grow up here, and have their own conditioning from living elsewhere. There's no foundational understanding of Irish culture, by appreciating our history as an Irish person. Instead, their understanding is based on being a Somalian looking from the outside in, and judging/adapting based on that perception. I lived over a decade in China, and I will never understand their culture the same way as a Chinese person, regardless of how good my language ability is, or the degree of exposure I have to that culture. My perception will always be influenced by my 3 decades plus of growing and living in Ireland first.

A Somalian living in Ireland will likely have a superficial understanding that is superior to mine, since they've been here longer over the last decade, but will they understand the underlying conditions? It's highly unlikely. Whereas someone from the UK, because of a similar culture, would likely be able to, although even there, there will be gaps in understanding.

I know a lot of Irish people who ended up in places where there were few or no other Irish people when they went there. The idea that everyone goes to America, Australia or Britain, and ends up hanging out with other Irish people is flawed. I've encountered them in Asia, Russia, Africa, and they're not pining away looking for other Irish people to join them... because they left to get away from the very "Irishness" that you dismissed existing earlier.

Although, the funny thing about living extensively abroad, is that invariably they become "more" distinctively "Irish" as a result. More appreciative of Ireland both as a nation, and the associated culture. TBH the only people I tend to meet who are overly critical of Ireland are those who stayed in Ireland, or those who are newly established abroad.