Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

If the EU were willing to help the UK man the border in NI, I am pretty sure they will be very very helpful to Ireland in the above scenario.

Also worth noting that a border for goods checking is an order of magnitude easier than one that also needs to check people...

Should be remembered that the backlash against this, even if it was happening, would be huge. The US for example would come down on Brexit UK like a ton of bricks for engineering a scenario where the unwanted and unwelcome Irish border returns after 30 years.

How is it going to look for who exactly ?

If we end up with hard border then the UK and only the UK will come out looking bad to anyone looking at this objectively.

If the UK spring a need for an overnight border on Ireland it will go against treaties it has signed and no county in the world could be expected to react to that quickly.

The only other option is to build the border now which would be a huge waste of money and resources given that no border is still the most likely scenario

No, it shows we are prepared for every eventuality, however unlikely, and take defending the SM seriously.

The Brexit vote took place in 2016.

Since that day the possibility of border infrastructure between RoI and NI became a possibility.

It's almost 2022 now so the government can't exactly claim this has been foisted on them "overnight'.

I concur but that's why we need public information, an education campaign to insure 'blame' is directed at those responsible - the British government.

Engagement with border communities, that kind of stuff.

People and businesses will need to know how their lives may be impacted, that requires lead time before any changes occur.

Sticking heads-in-sand on this doesn't strike me as a viable option.

I have news for you Seth.

The NIP is not 'working' because one party to the agreement is torpedoing it.

You're assuming that people would engage constructively with the government telling them of their plans to reintroduce a hard border. It's far more likely that people would reply "We want nothing to do with your border and will not cooperate".

Imagine the German government drawing up plans to reintroduce the border with the east and asking the people in East Germany for their cooperation.

So we are prepared for such an eventuality, one that has become increasingly likely.

You prefer to have no plan and look like a tool to our EU partners?

The ones that we want to maintain trust and confidence with?

If i were they, i would expect at this stage, that Ireland have some pretty well fleshed-out plans that can be put in place quickly.

Speaking for myself, were I travelling across the border regularly or trading across it; i would much prefer to know what's in store well in advance, as opposed to interruptions being sprung on me.

I still maintain a hard border won't need to come to pass.

The vast majority of sea and air transport landing on the island of Ireland is done by EU based companies or companies with a far greater stake in the EU market than the UK.

Make it an EU offence to carry, or assist in the carriage of, any goods onto the island of Ireland not destined for NI that do not comply with EU SM rules.

What will quickly happen is the hassle of singling out goods for NI versus goods that could go beyond NI won't be worth it for the logistics companies and they'll simply insist that all goods departing the UK for the entire island of Ireland must comply with EU SM rules.

Meanwhile, you place maximum checks on all goods entering the EU SM at other major ports like Calais and Rotterdam and tell the logistics companies that they must ensure they are only carrying valid and correctly declared goods. If any invalid or undeclared goods are found in a shipment, they are responsible for returning them to the port of origin and they will be charged punitive storage rates until such time they do.

Net result is the UK will suffer an overnight, frankly devastating backlog at all of their ports as logistics companies won't take any of their export goods unless they're 100% certain the paperwork for them is correct. Then the EU sits back and waits.

What "stake holders" what "design process" what are you on about.

If a hard border happened we would have no say over where it goes or what gets checked. Absolutely no town hall meeting in Ballygobordertown can change the border or the goods allowed.

Also we are all stake holders so is the whole country gonna get to vote on the colour of paint for the border posts

I think its clear enough, that whatever the Brits do as regards Article 16 or any other legal recourse around the treaty, it will not result in a real or de facto hard border on the island of Ireland, because that would be tolerated by 85% of all the people on the island. Or by all the nations of the western World in fact.

Its clear enough that Boris has no love for northern Ireland and my concern now is that he could well allow a chaotic reunification to take place by London's abdication of responsibility. We may all have to defend peace on the island in that event.