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New Alternative News Channel "GB News" chaired by Andrew Neil launching - read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That is 100% false.

    I have never accused him or anyone else of that filthy crime on this thread. I was purely talking about the relationship between rich, powerful people and charity / PR.

    That is it. Nothing more.

    And this has nothing to do with GB News, of which we are brought here to discuss.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    This is the silly bit; it's like people are just suddenly, intentionally ignoring a core tenet of private business and capitalism. Oh, is your brand or associate suddenly dirt? Then you tear up the contract with that tainted personality. It's not "Cancel Culture", just a natural consequence of bad publicity. Not like Clarkson (for instance) was working at the BBC gratis out of some sense of gentleman's honour.

    Now, whether "Top Gear" the brand could exist without Clarkson remains a question unanswered; because the replacement presenters have been ... well. A mixed bag; was Chris Evans (no, not that one) also Cancelled when he himself got the heave-ho?



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Nope, my ideal society is the ones we have in Scandinavia. As such, I like regulated capitalism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,538 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Do advertisers there pull their ads when a presenter or show attracts negative attention?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wrote this on 26 July of this year.

    My position is the same now as it was then.

    All else is propagandistic balderdash masquerading as human decency.



  • Site Banned Posts: 20,685 ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    I thought you couldn't go through 211 pages to find an exact quote?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Sure didn't GBEEBIES cancel one of thier own because he took the knee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    You bought it into the thread when you got excited about the spectator article that never was.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,298 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The issue wasn't that you were claiming Rashford was a paedophile or anything like that, the issue was of all the people you could have drawn a comparison to, you chose a paedophile (Jimmy Saville), and then another paedophile (Jeffrey Epstein). And I think you might have said Prince Andrew too at one point.

    With Saville and Epstein, you deliberately chose some of the worst scum who committed the worst crimes imaginable to compare Marcus Rashford to based on the tenuous link of benefitting from charity work, where even that comparison didn't make sense either. And when even the basis of the suggested wrongdoing of Rashford was proven to be nonsense, you never recanted.

    So people will keep bringing it up, because quite frankly, it demonstrates perfectly who you are as a poster here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Not because of direct targeted campaigns nope. Keep pretending cancel culture doesn't exist all you want, it doesn't bother me :)



  • Site Banned Posts: 20,685 ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    This is the timeline of yur Rashford views.


    And we must remember, that the spectator article was all bullshit, and completely made up by someone taking the piss out of the spectator. Before anyting was even published (nothing was published whatsoever)

    He thought he'd get away with it - and he didn't.

    "Empathy, intelligence and platform", you say. Perhaps if the latest revelations weren't exposed, that would be true. It certainly was my impression before The Spectator exposed him for what he really is - a money-hungry millionaire, capitalizing on the back of the poorest in society. It's enough to make you sick. If Nigel Farage did this, I can only imaging the level of hatred funnelled his way.

    But because it's Marcus Rashford, some twisted interpretation will be concocted to let him away with it.

    Now, like a politician with his tail between his legs, Rashford is trying to add some faux veneer of respectability to his immoral actions

    Then when it was pointed out that he was actually giving away more money than he earned, considerably more, you changed tack and brought in Savile


    So, the summary appears to be: Marcus Rashford is perfectly entitled to profit from charity work, but what about the Tory's and Nigel Farage's expenses?

    I'd love to see investigations into both Tory and Labour MP finances, as well as Nigel Farage's - and, if they were found to have done the same thing, I'd condemn it in the same terms that I have applied to Rashford.

    That's the difference here. I'm willing to call both sides out, whereas we just get whataboutery - like the above - from the other side.

    Jimmy Savile raised enormous funds for charity, over $40 million. But that doesn't mean we should overlook his crimes - or to point to someone else and say, "But, why aren't you saying anything about [insert alternative]?".

    Like Rashford, we cannot allow someone to use "charity" as a Trojan horse for other, inappropriate activity.

    Then this swerve to make it seem less outrageous

    Also, my comparison with Jimmy Saville stands. My point is that powerful people cannot be allowed to get away with inappropriate activity (financial, abusive, or any other kind) just because their public persona is associated with charity. I would apply the same principle to the Clintons, for example - who are always hiding behind the charity performed by their organization.

    Then this attempted defence, a few parts after saying you made a comparison with savile, you say you didnt. There are a few posts inbetween that are doubling down on your original claims, and some posts about how he and others with no talent should just stick to their jobs (and you didn't like when it was pointed out that Farage didn't stick to his)

    I didn't compare Rashford to Jimmy Saville.

    I raised the very real problem where wealthy, powerful people often cloak inappropriate behaviour behind the veil of charity - advancing their own self-interest whilst pretending to care about the charitable cause.

    And then this

    Rashford should have been forthcoming and disclosed any potential conflict of interest between his charitable endeavour (which was passed off to the world as entirely selfless) and his own already vast bank balance.

    And the only link this has with Jimmy Saville is that both are cloaking their behaviour behind how great they are at charitable work.


    Then a week later you brought Epstein in too to double down

    I formed my views based on Marcus Rashford's own tweets. I have subsequently repeatedly stated that what The Spectator is intending to publish is allegations. I have no idea what precisely they intend / may intend to publish on the question. Nor can I confirm it. But I can draw my own conclusions from what Marcus Rashford has put in the public domain on Twitter.

    I also took a step back and made the broader point that it's not uncommon for rich, powerful people to hijack charitable work for their own personal interests. I cited the most obvious examples such as Jimmy Savile and the Clintons. We could also include Jeffrey Epstein.


    Sooooooooooooooo, Yes you absolutely did.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And what's wrong with that!?

    What you have posted is simply a longer version of precisely what I said earlier today. No inconsistencies whatsoever.

    And if you read Rashford's own tweets on this question, he admits that there was a personal advantage to his charitable work.

    That was my whole point to begin with.

    And with that, the issue for me at least is closed. Back to GB News focussed posts I go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    I believe so.. See, cancel culture does exist. It promogates more amongst those on the left however unfortunately



  • Site Banned Posts: 20,685 ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    But he wasn't doing it to gain any personal fortune. He wasn't doing it for nefarious reasons. He was doing it to ensure millions of kids could eat because a Tory Government has failed them, and Brexit has compounded the issue.


    You equated him to 2 paedophiles. There was absolutely a load wrong in what you said. He did not "admit there was a personal advantage". What he said was, does he have larger commercial appeal? and he said yes he probably does, but that he doesn't care. He has his career in football and doesn't need to do this.


    David Beckham was outed as massive tax dodger, and had a load of relatively shaky corporate interests, and now has got into bed with those lovers of all things good, Qatar, yet the Spectator have only come out with 2 relatively benign articles about the contents of his emails and the ethics of hacking celebrities emails, and the burning question of does he deserve a knighthood.


    They ate this **** up though.



  • Site Banned Posts: 20,685 ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    It's on both sides. One is cancel culture and one is keeping people shut up as much as possible. It's neither more prevalent on the left than it is on the right, especially given that, historically, it is the conservative right who have sought to sensor literature, art, cinema, and news when it does not fall into those core, conservative beliefs. It's maybe coming from the other direction now, but only after centuries of people just being trampled on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,578 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    It's... a hypothetical.

    It's...a load of old bollocks.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Meanwhile Farage set up a tax haven Trust fund to dodge paying taxes


    "Nigel Farage, the leader of the UK Independence party, has admitted setting up a trust fund in an offshore tax haven which could have enabled him to cut his tax bill.

    Farage, who previously condemned tax avoiders in a speech to the European parliament, said that he paid a tax adviser to set up the Farage Family Educational Trust 1654 on the Isle of Man."


    Such a hypocrite.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Convenient how you left out the very next paragraph in the source.

    The MEP, whose party has attracted growing support over the last year, said he had not personally benefited from the account, and added he had ended up making a loss from the venture.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    It is currently far more predominant on the left. That may be a reversal of historical norms, but it's how things stand currently.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The difference is that cancel culture is about erasing people from the face of the planet for the unfortunate crime of having a perfectly respectable, normal, and healthy opinion.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you think it should be illegal to organise a boycott?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,615 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    There's no such thing as cancel culture. It's just conservatives wailing like putrescent children whenever they get criticised.

    Feel free to back up your point but your history makes this unlikely.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,975 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Bullsh*t again.

    The right have cancelled peoples right to have an abortion in one of the largest states in the US, they have introduced legislation making it more and more difficult for people to vote. They have introduced legislation preventing school governing groups from having mask mandates to protect their staff and students, they have introduced legislation removing the teaching of certain historical texts, including the works of MLK because they are afraid the truth will empower people in black communities. Donald Trumps attempt at setting up a social media platform included terms and conditions that his SPAC would not be commented on negatively on the platform. He begged the NFL to fire Colin Kapernick for kneeling in support of BLM.

    In the UK, the conservatives have introduced legislation making it easy for them to shut down public protestst.

    But a couple of Twitter accounts talkabout not using Chick Fil A or whatever and the right wing media and their fan base lose their sh*t over it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Him being a sh!t businessman doesn't take away from the fact that it was set up with the express purpose of avoiding lawful taxes.

    The fact that he lost money just makes him look even worse frankly.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tax avoidance is entirely legal, and it doesn't make you a "sh1t businessman".

    You may be confusing it with tax evasion.



  • Site Banned Posts: 20,685 ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    This was not his intention though. He did this for personal gain, which you have so mightily frowned upon.

    That he ended up actually losing out because of it is just a brilliantly happy coincidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,975 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    EH is all over another thread on here calling for the removal of citizenship of people who have been awarded it and then committed fraud in obtaining public money illegally.

    He will defend Farage for essentially trying to do the same thing. I've stated on that thread already what I think their motivations are for having opposing views on such events.



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  • Site Banned Posts: 20,685 ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    He also asked someone if they'd rather have dinner with Epstein, Saville or Myra Hindley. Probably trying to set them up as a predator or child killer giving them as the options.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Because he closes it when he got caught

    Also someone definitely benefited


    "Farage said he transferred his shareholding in a company, Farage Limited, to the trust, based in Douglas, the capital of the Isle of Man.

    This meant it owned 33% of Farage Limited, later rising to 50%, the Mirror said.

    He denied receiving dividends from the company, and the firm's accountant said that all £969,000 in dividends were paid to the Ukip leader's brother, Andrew.


    Companies House documents show the offshore trust remained a shareholder of Farage Limited until 2011.

    Farage insisted he had shut it down in 2007 or 2008."


    He also refused to release his tax returns after this, definitely the actions of an innocent man 😉



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tax avoidance is not illegal. What's the problem?

    All it means is effective financial planning within the rules of the tax game. Nothing more.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You felt the need to point to the fact he didn't profit from it..... So why did you think it was relevant? The reality is he engaged in a practise that he condemned in an attempt to make a profit. You went after Rashford for impropriety that didn't exist but Farage for engaging in questionable practises, you defend it. I'm waiting for you to praise it at this stage..



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But there's literally nothing "questionable" about tax avoidance.

    Go to any reputable accountant and they do their best to minimize the tax burden for the client. 'Tax avoidance' as a term sounds dodgy, but all it refers to is strategic financial planning.

    Nothing illegal, nothing dodgy.

    Nobody pays more tax than they need to, within the law.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    None of that is cancel culture, but good effort all the same. Thankfully I'm neither a republican nor live in the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    "But there's literally nothing "questionable" about tax avoidance."


    Really?



    "tax avoidance cannot be called “legal” because a lot of what gets called “tax avoidance” falls in a legal grey area. “Tax avoidance” is often incorrectly assumed to refer to “legal” means of underpaying tax (such as using loopholes), while “tax evasion” is understood to refer to illegal means. In the real world, however, this legal-illegal distinction often falls apart.


    Ultimately, both tax avoidance and tax evasion result in countries being short-changed out of billions in tax with public services, local industries and ordinary people suffering for it."



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Of course there are grey areas on the borders of tax avoidance - tax evasion, depending on the tax code at the time.

    But what Farage did wasn't in any grey zone whatsoever.

    It was a trust based in the Isle of Man, and nothing more than that. And to the expected glee of others, he made a loss on the venture anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,167 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Eskiboy defending Farage and his dodgy financial dealings.


    Has he compared Farage to Saville yet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,656 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true.


    "There is a pervasive understanding amongst the public, journalists and politicians that tax avoidance is all ‘perfectly legal’.

    This idea is promoted by tax advisors who have a direct financial interest in convincing their clients that what they are doing will not get them into trouble.

    The claim that tax avoidance is ‘legal’ is used as defence by companies who are accused of the practice, and the idea has been adopted by politicians who claim that businesses and individuals have a moral (not legal) obligation not to engage in tax avoidance.

    Even HMRC’s own definition of tax avoidance makes reference to “bending the rules” (not breaking them), and stating that tax avoidance involves “operating within the letter, but not the spirit, of the law”.

    This idea, that all tax avoidance is legal, is a myth. In most cases tax avoidance is not legal at all, and for several decades courts around the world have taken an increasingly aggressive stance towards tax avoidance schemes, striking them down and imposing penalties on those involved.

    HMRC, the UK tax agency, claims to have won pretty much every time it has challenged a tax avoidance scheme in court in recent years.


    Tax avoidance, as viewed by the courts, frequently falls into this category. Tax avoidance takes advantage of the fact that the wording of the law may not be clear, or that a particular law conflicts with another, creating ambiguity around how the law should be applied. Because it seeks to exploit gaps and loopholes in the law, it is not positively prohibited, but public policy is very clearly opposed to tax avoidance. What this means in practice is that the courts can determine that a tax avoidance scheme has no effect, reversing the advantage that any taxpayer sought to gain, and imposing a civil penalty. "


    Farage preaches to others about avoiding paying tax and then tried a sneaky move to do the exact same himself.


    As I said before, he's a hypocrite.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,975 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Lol. Of course it isn't. It's only cancel culture when the left want something to stop isn't it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, the latest victim of cancel culture is the left-wing lesbian, Kathleen Stock.

    They even eat their own.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How is Piers Morgan racist exactly? What are the Top 3 most racist things that he has said or done?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Who's "they"? Weren't you criticising a poster recently for using generalisations?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Left.

    Kathleen Stock is from left-wing stock.

    But because she believes that biological sex exists, a version of the left - the cancel culture types - deemed her insufficiently left-wing, and so mandated her cancellation.

    Once cancelled and removed from Sussex University, they celebrated with, "Ding Dong - the Witch is Dead".

    Utterly evil human beings.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Nope. Colin Kaeoernick was canceled, seems like that lad who took the knee for GB News was aswell. Happens more with people on the left however, albeit a minority ('progressives'). Happy you finally accept cancel culture exists all the same. It's a good start :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Look, at least most of the posters here are coming around to accepting cancel culture exists. It's a good start. That they want to believe that it's still mainly a right-wing phenomon is no surprise. But sure let's take one step at a time.



  • Site Banned Posts: 20,685 ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Let's just pretend rightwing aresholes like McCarthy didn't exist then?

    Let's pretend that Trump for years just shout over anyone who disagreed or got them banned/removed because he couldn't formulate coherent replies

    Let's forget about Paul Robeson

    Let's forget Cassius Marcellus Clay

    Lets forget that many of Ireland's finest authors books were prohibited from sale in their own country for a long time due to overbeating conservatism.

    Lts forget Colin Kaepernick

    Tories have been trying to basically cancel the BBC for years and have gutted and essentially cancelled countless cultural institutions because they merely want to remain objective


    If people stopped saying and doing detestable things they wouldn't have to worry about "cancel culture"


    It's always existed, it's just got a different name now



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Nope. Don't need to forget any of them. I said still want to believe it's *mainly* a right wing phenomenon, which it is no longer. It is now mainly a left wing fiasco, unfortunately. Elements of it exist of the right, but most of the canceling that happens is a result of those on the (usually progressive) left, and a lot of the time those being targeted are themselves left wing. The two most recent noteworthy examples being Kathleen stock and jk Rowling.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,578 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    How would you quantify what "most posters" are "coming around to" ?



This discussion has been closed.
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