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Ireland badly needs a new centre-right party - Here's my proposal

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    I don't think we can describe DCC or SDCC as being FFG run councils, yet they are the primary drivers of these "giveaways" of public land to private developers. E.g in DCC there are 20 FFG councilors and 42 others; So who is responsible for the Oscar Traynor development deal... and especially the delay in adding much-needed development in a housing crisis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    There is a couple of points about this. If the land is worth 14m based on the deal for social and affordable housing provision, what is the corresponding value for the provision of that if it was sold at the market value?

    I don't see anywhere how this analysis by architect Mel Reynolds concludes it will cost 60,000 less per unit if the council developed directly by contracting a builder. What I do know is that state bodies doing this are absolutely woeful, after all, look at the cost mess when the state has contracted out the building of the New Children's Hospital. Are there even any examples of what councils do efficiently?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,064 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    I'm sure if you ask The Examiner/Rory Hearne they can put you in touch with the architect, but it wouldn't be the first time in the last couple of years I've seen builders' claimed costs challenged by experts.

    There's a huge difference between one state agency notorious for its overspends contracting out the erection of a highly complex building on a totally unsuitable city centre site, and a council contracting for the building of houses in a suburban brownfield site on the other. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

    Local councillors/local government powers have been curtailed for years, but in DCC you literally have senior council officials working against the councillors who don't want to give away council land. "We don't have the expertise to do this any more, it'll delay things by five years if we don't give this public land to this developer," is a paraphrase, but pretty much exactly what's been said by DCC officials.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    I think fine Gael would be more Liberal or woke in areas like gay rights lgbt issues etc otherwise its hard to see a big difference in policy's between them the problem they face is the greens and sinn féin are getting more votes they can no longer be ignored

    People no longer think of sinn féin as being close to the IRA as it was in the 80s

    The government has land all over the place they could build large estates in certain areas and appoint contractors builders to build houses



  • Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Jeremy Sproket


    [LIST]

    My Ideas are:

    [*] Abolish inheritance tax (this is unfair and unethical to tax what was already punitively taxed when being earned).

    [*] Reform the tax bases.

    [*] Cap welfare payments to the equivalent of minimum wage.

    [*] Lone parents allowance to be abolished and replaced with "widowed parent's allowance" or "deserted parent's allowance". You shouldn't be getting paid for being a single mother as a career choice.

    [*] Abolish whingey quangos. Say goodbye the the National Women's Council, the Immigrants Council, Pavee Point.

    [*] Bring in mandatory sentencing with a permanent incarceration upon receipt of one's 5th conviction (and I'm being very, very generous here).

    [*] Have exit checks in our airports (until we join Schengen) to keep an eye on welfare tourists. Obviously won't apply to CTA or internal flights.

    [*] Abolish public sector unions. Teachers, nurses, Gardaí striking should not be entertained. If they do decide to strike, there should be a ruling forbidding the media from airing it. Don't pay attention to them.

    [*] Encourage enterprise and remove red tape from people who want to innovate, create jobs and better themselves.

    [*] Abolish trading laws like the prohibition on alcohol sales after 10.

    [*] Allow people to train and have certain small Garda powers delegated to them. For example, ticketing for disabled space abuse or parking on a double yellow. These people will be secret and you won't know who they are. It could be your neighbour, your friend, anyone.

    [/LIST]



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  • Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭Jeremy Sproket


    How do you make bullet points on this new website ?? 😫



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    I won't bother trying to find this architect, I just don't accept the premise at face value without any source that backs it up.

    Is there an example of the state or local government successfully contracting out any development that is cheaper than the private sector doing it themselves?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,448 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    But they try that and they all get objected too daily!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Sure the current system is throwing them free luxury homes... not bothered collecting the token gesture rent, many cant even be bothered to pay...



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,064 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Do you want left-wing riots, mass strikes and civil disobedience? Cos this is how you get left-wing riots, mass strikes and civil disobedience!

    At least your views are actually right-wing (ok, far-right and fascist), though, as opposed to the "vaguely centre-left except for crime, that's centre-right, isn't it?" lists that have been posted earlier, so I guess you get kudos for that. Your actual list, though?

    * Inheritance tax: there's already a generous exemption. If you're inheriting a fortune that you haven't earned, why shouldn't you pay tax on the windfall?

    * "Reform the tax bases" - a little vague, here? How?

    * /sigh. Cap welfare payments to the equivalent of minimum wage, what? Populist boll-ocks. €334.70 is the max benefit on Jobseeker's Benefit for someone with an adult dependent. So that's for two people. A 20-year-old on minimum wage will have earned that in 31 hours work...

    * When there was no lone parents allowance, the outcome was forced adoption, illegal adoptions, backstreet abortions and Magdalene Laundries. Now, you may think yeah, no problem with any of that. I think you'll find the rest of the world has moved on, and we're not going back.

    * You do know the 'NGO' bit of 'quango' stands for 'non-government organisation', yeah? You can't abolish an NGO. Unless you're going full fash, and getting rid of the right to free assembly.

    * Permanent incarceration? Hugely expensive. You sure you'd not rather liquidate them? Maybe recycle the organs for transplant? And the protein to feed the poor?

    * Why wouldn't your "papers please" checks apply to the CTA? Do Irish ppl not claim in both Ireland and Britain any more?

    * Abolishing public sector unions would be pretty national socialist. There's that pesky right to free assembly again...

    * When you 'remove red tape' and don't do the necessary checks on enterprise you end up with things like the banking crisis (financial regulation), Grenfell Tower (building regulations) and workers who have to piss in bottles so they make their targets (workers' rights)

    * Actual secret police, informing on neighbours! So far-right it's gone far-left, full Stasi! 😂😁😁

    * I'm with you on the later opening for off-licences!

    But yeah - fairly wide-ranging far-right policies there. What will you do when the EU and others start imposing sanctions for the human rights abuses you're proposing?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,064 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Not sure why councils would necessarily need to do it cheaper than the private sector? They're not out to make a profit, just to build houses/apartments that will last for a hundred years. The current proposals involve essentially giving away land at below market value - which is just madness.

    Here's one such development built by Dublin Corporation, as was. Really nice area, decent mix of house types, plenty of green space, close to amenities - a great area, real sense of community, much sought after now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,024 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The amount of elements of this that are outright fascist is actually quite scary.

    Its not a centre right party you want, its a re-generation of Ailtirí na hAiséirghe. Quite a lot of your proposals align.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,114 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    How many referenda are you planning on holding to try to get approval for the multiple removals of basic human rights that you've outlined?



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    To what end,deos any of this improve lives for people??


    I remain skeptical people will vote for a party to simply damage others with no reward for emselves/their immediate families??



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,478 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Not about improving lives, it's about making people they feel are beneath them suffer so they can feel better about their position in society.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,015 ✭✭✭Christy42


    You missed out on removing any sort of freedom of the press if they are barred from reporting on strikes.


    This is up there with the pairing that wanted to be instated as dictators of Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,064 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Yeah, there's only so much "What. The. Actual. ****?!" I can respond to in a post...

    Speaking of those two "centre-right" individuals - they've gone awful quiet lately! I wonder have they taken up sussing out boards.ie for potential recruits! 🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    ARe you saying the left wing would riot and engage in civil disobedience if we ask them to work for a living and reduce the size of the STate? Isn't that what a spoiled child does when they don't get their way? Are you saying that is somehow morally justified and we should create policy in fear of left wing bullies rioting?

    As for inheritance tax, they might not have earned it but their parents very likely earned it by paying a massive mortgage on their house. And they paid all sorts of taxes including income tax as they earned it. Why should that hard earned wealth be handed over to non family members in the form of taxation?



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Because it is income to whomever inherits it. Why should the money someone receives for doing nothing be exempt from tax?

    All other income is taxed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,478 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    So, I assume you have no problem with wealth concentrating in the hands of the few?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,064 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    No. The "left" - or a bloody huge proportion of them, anyway - already work for a living.

    What I am saying is that the left - and, hopefully, the most of the unaligned and right-thinking people, too! - would riot and engage in civil disobedience if someone tried to impose a fascist state as outlined above, that would oversee the establishment of a secret police force and the abolition of unions, a free press and the right to free assembly. And possibly several other rights enshrined in the UN Declaration of Human Rights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Sibyl_savant


    Actually there isn't enough and the world could sustain a lot more. No one has seriously peddled the 'overpopulation' myth since the 1970s.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,474 ✭✭✭Shoog




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I think the best thing we could do at the moment id have single seat constituencies and leave the pr system in place... Clearly FF-FG-SF are going to solve nothing the way things are set up at the moment... Teduce TDs by about half... cut Councillors to about 30%... if we were only going to have one TD in our area we would make sure we get the best available...

    Clearly nothing is going to change unless we get a United Ireland and when this happens we will have to be more mature about how we do politics...i dont see anything changing anytime soon....



  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    Brilliant post that put's the OP right back in his box.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,064 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    According to RTÉ this morning, Revenue are saying LPT declarations are running at around 52% for those who own a single property. And drops to 14% for those who own 10 or more properties.

    I wonder what it is with these freeloading tax cheats. They should have mandatory rent caps introduced - equivalent to the minimum wage, net, across all their properties. And be jailed if found to breach regulations. Five convictions - throw away the key! And obviously name and shame them.

    (AKA stuff you'll never see the "centre-right" calling for, even though welfare fraud is a lot less prevalent than tax fraud and underpayment...)



  • Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Cyclonius


    Technically not all other income is taxed. Anyone in receipt of a government allowance is not taxed on that allowance. A government benefit, with the exception of Child Benefit (which was more accurately named when it was the Children's Allowance), is, however, taxable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,478 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    It would be kind of pointless to go to an effort to tax something you've just paid out, particularly when, if it was taxed like a salary, it would likely fall inside the tax-free alowance. Child benefit isn't means assessed, do I have that right?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Cyclonius


    You're correct about Child Benefit not being means assessed or taxable. I can understand where you're coming from regarding it seeming pointless in taxing government payments. The problem is that some payments, such as the Contributory State Pension, Jobseeker's Benefit, Pandemic Unemployment Payment, etc. are, indeed, taxable, and many do have to pay taxes on them, in situations where they might be in employment (part or full-time, depending on the payment), or have a small, separate pension. It would be much fairer if you had a system where no government payments are taxable, or less ideally, all are. Going back to the original point, it seemed to be worth noting that there is a sizeable percentage of the population (several hundred thousand people, per the stats) in receipt of income that is not taxable.



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