Importing firearms

irishshooter32 · 06-11-2021 5:49pm #1

Does anybody have any experience importing firearms from the USA or Germany I'm particularly looking at the FN 502 .22lr pistol from America

https://fnamerica.com/products/pistols/fn-502-tactical-blk/

I cannot find this pistol at any RFD and the price seems to be fairly attractive does anybody know the process of legally importing a firearm and does anybody know the taxes or duty associated with importing a firearm from America thanks.

alanmc · 06-11-2021 6:19pm

I've only ever had a rifle imported from the UK (pre Brexit). The RFD did all the legwork for me and it was completely painless.

What I would say though, is that I can imagine importing from the US is inordinately more difficult, both from a paperwork point of view and the logistics of shipping. If you can swing importing one from inside the EU, it should be the same experience I had.

irishshooter32 · 06-11-2021 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128693#Comment_118128693

Ye I think they might be available in Germany

GooseB · 06-11-2021 7:20pm

As said already, I'd imagine buying from within the EU would be a lot easier. I brought in a rifle from Germany earlier this year and it was a relatively straight forward process.

The first bit is exactly the same as buying from a firearms dealer here - you buy the gun and get the serial number. Once you have the serial number you can fill in your FCA1 form and apply for your certificate in the normal way. Fill in the dealers details in the relevant section and where it asks for the PULSE number just write "out of jurisdiction".

Once you have your certificate you then need to apply to the DOJ for an import licence. You can fill it in in paper form and post it off but it's much easier to fill in the online version and submit it that way. It's free and quick - I applied on a Friday evening and had the import licence through my letterbox the following Friday. Details here:

https://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/eu_individuals_importing

Now that you have your firearm certificate and import licence, you scan these and email them to the dealer in the other country. They will need these so they can apply for their export licence. Once the dealer has their export licence everything is sorted and they can ship it over to you. That's the way it worked from Germany, I'd imagine other EU states are very similar. In Germany you have to pay for the export licence - mine was €45.00. The only hiccup I had in the whole process was on the German side - the dealer took a long time getting the export licence because the local authority they applied to for the licence thought Ireland were no longer part of the EU, post Brexit. Very annoying.

otmmyboy2 · 07-11-2021 1:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128907#Comment_118128907

Spot on, exact same deal when I imported my latest pistol earlier this year.

Only addendums I'd add, your FO might ask you to get it shipped to a dealer, but there is no need to do so legally.

Also some dealers oveeseas will not restrict the magazines before shipping, so just make sure you pin them after they arrive before taking them to the range.

If you're looking for a hospitable dealer in Germany who's used to shipping to Ireland I wholeheartedly recommend Triebel.

If it isn't on their site email and they can likely get it, their English is very much up to scratch and to top it all off they are very involved in fighting EU gun control efforts, so wins all around.

Also no affiliation, just a very happy repeat customer.

Munsterlad102 · 07-11-2021 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128907#Comment_118128907

Out of curiosity, around how much did you have to pay the dealer on top of the value of the rifle?

Grizzly 45 · 07-11-2021 4:44pm

To import this now from the US wont bring you any considerable savings.

You need to find a qualified FFL dealer that can ship outside of the US and will handle the paperwork then you need to pay a US Dept of Commerce export license fee @$250 to ship the pistol over.Or you could wait until the dealer has a consignment going over to Europe and have that included in the shipment as the 250$ fee is irrespective of how many guns are shipped. However, they might only ship one or two shipments a year to Europe. So you decide to ship it via the FFL dealer without the consignment route. Find a courier company that will ship to Europe. They will charge at least another 200 plus euros,and it makes landfall in Ireland. That will be import duty, customs and whatever else our Govt will take out of you in money for importing from outside the EU Soviet.

So it arrives in the EU dealer, you are then hit with customs and import fees and now must ship it to your home address which you can do under EU law as the licensed holder,or to your Irish dealer. You now need to find a shipping company in Europe mainland to ship here to Ireland...Not many about anymore, and they can charge up to 400 euros to do so.[Deutsche Post/DHL] I got my dealer to use www.waffentaxi.de to do the transfer,as they are a courier company that specialises in moving guns around the Union for Germn hunters and the like. That still took another 4weeks,as Waffen taxi said Ireland is THE most painful country to deal with in the EU with firearms. They never have an easy shipment here due to our inefficient and lackadaisical revenue and an Post in dealing with critical parcels like this. My German gun dealer was driving them mental trying to find out where it disappeared into the black hole of Revenue and An Post in Dublin. ESP as per new EU shipping laws on firearms. The guns must be disassembled and shipped in TWO SEPERATE PARCELS. Which you get to pay for of course, and it gets worrisome when your mag, bolt and trigger group arrive within a week, and the rest goes AWOL for another 4 weeks!

Be prepared for another 3 plus weeks wait until the paperwork is sorted out depending on how bad the local Govt or police precinct has been hit by Covid. I was delayed with an import of a rifle by 16 months from Germany this year because the Bochum police dept was wiped by Covid, and another poster had another bureaucratic problem in Germany as well with them thinking Ireland was still in the UK!

To sum it up...It's gonna cost you either which way, and the question is how long do you want to suffer and wait and how big a cheque do you want to write to get this gun? Probably, the least painful financially and bureaucratically is to go the EU route.

Grizzly 45 · 07-11-2021 4:52pm

Now that you have your firearm certificate and import licence, you scan these and email them to the dealer in the other country. They will need these so they can apply for their export licence. Once the dealer has their export licence everything is sorted and they can ship it over to you.

NOT QUITE...You need to send the ORIGINAL import license from the DOJ to the German dealer.No if's or but's. The issuing of the export certs,be it the local council dept or the police dept, will not accept photocopies, emailed scans etc. It must be the original document, as per EU directive something or other.🙄

GooseB · 07-11-2021 5:25pm

NOT QUITE...You need to send the ORIGINAL import license from the DOJ to the German dealer.

That may be the case but it's not what I did - I emailed off a scan of my import licence and it worked. The German dealer never requested the original paperwork (I still have it in a file at home)

Out of curiosity, around how much did you have to pay the dealer on top of the value of the rifle?

I paid the dealer the price of the rifle + €45.00 for the export licence + €75.00 for shipping. So retail price plus €120.00 is what it cost me in total to get it to my door.

irishshooter32 · 07-11-2021 6:49pm

Right thanks lads for the help I think the most logical route is to import from Germany or just get a RFD to get me one because I would imagine the cost difference between Germany and Ireland are probably marginal and it saves me the hassle of worrying about importing I'm assuming a RFD would probably want at least €900 for the pistol and then I would have no mags or I would pay them €50-60 per mag it seems a serious pain here in Ireland

otmmyboy2 · 07-11-2021 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118132867#Comment_118132867

For anything in any way unique I tend to go outside Ireland, since it either doesn't exist here or it does at such a markup that it is uneconomic, even compared with purchasing from Germany or similar, export fees, shipping, etc.

Since the pistol you are looking for is currently(afaik) only available in the US you might contact the Duke over in Germany:

https://www.theduke.de/

They deal in a lot of US stuff, so you will likely get an answer as to what it'd cost this side of the pond if nothing else.

Alternatively https://www.waffen-ferkinghoff.com/english/ do a lot of US stuff too.

My bet would be somewhere around €750-800, not including export, shipping etc.

From the Irish RFD my bet would be €950-1000, if they could/would get it.

I'm basing my rough pricing difference on a new Walther PPQ in 22 from Germany @ €519 vs an Irish RFD @ €710.

otmmyboy2 · 07-11-2021 8:38pm

Also on the import permit original vs copy I tend just to take a photo of the import permit on my phone and email it over to the Germany gun dealer, they send that off to their import/export dept and include the original export permit and a printout of my photo of the import permit in the package they send.

Never had a complaint yet and so long as my photo is legible it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Grizzly 45 · 08-11-2021 12:08pm

That may be the case but it's not what I did - I emailed off a scan of my import licence and it worked. The German dealer never requested the original paperwork (I still have it in a file at home)

Out of curiosity, around how much did you have to pay the dealer on top of the value of the rifle?

I paid the dealer the price of the rifle + €45.00 for the export licence + €75.00 for shipping. So retail price plus €120.00 is what it cost me in total to get it to my door.

You were bloody lucky is all I can say on that!!!😄

Anywhere else I've dealt with in Nordrehin Westphalia and Bavaria it's been originals only.

Export cert was no different at 45 euros a 100 euros to ship with Waffentaxi

One thing that peed off my dealers in Germany was the fact that we get the import certs done here by the DOJ for free and they are forking out 45/50 euros depending on these certs, as well that AGS does our EU firearms passports for free as well. 50 to 80 euros again depending on location. So a small crumb of better deals owning a gun here,I guess.

Another good website to try is this; https://www.vdb-waffen.de/

It's the website of the German gun dealers and they advertise just about their entire stocks of guns here, and everything else shooting related.

As for that particular FN pistol of this discussion. It's a Gen 1 design, and I'd wait a while to see what bugs show up in the design and tests before going to try and get one straight off.

musashie · 08-11-2021 8:27pm

Hi,

I am new to this forum have a Q or two someone might advise.....What about importing one from EU into Ireland. Any advice on how that would work?.. I have contacted numerous EU gun shops and none of them will deliver to Ireland.

System · 08-11-2021 8:56pm

This discussion was created from comments split from: Beretta BRX1.

Wadi14 · 08-11-2021 10:37pm

Use an firearms exporter , Germany for example someone like www.waffen-bock.eu

garrettod · 09-11-2021 12:41am

Hi,

Is the FN 502 .22lr threaded, as standard - and if so, won't that cause an issue when trying to licence it here?

B!gD0g543 · 09-11-2021 1:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130078#Comment_118130078

I'm curious about what type of certifications you would need. I don't think a simple background check would suffice in this situation lol. I was reading on a website that said that every country may have their own rules and regulations about what they require to send out a weapon https://backgroundcheckrepair.org/ and a background check like we do here or in the UK will not suffice.

Although, I've heard a lot of mixed reports from Germany ranging from it being extremely easy to obtain a firearm all the way to it being almost impossible.

Thanks for your input!

Cass · 09-11-2021 11:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139279#Comment_118139279

No.

No more than a rifle that is threaded.

otmmyboy2 · 09-11-2021 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139279#Comment_118139279

Yes it is threaded as standard, but no issue with that in the slightest.

Threaded barrels aren't even mentioned in any firearms legislation.

That and most 22 pistols made in the last 2 decades are either threaded or have thread adapters.

otmmyboy2 · 09-11-2021 11:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139322#Comment_118139322

Not entirely sure I understand the question here.

The certification for the firearm(something is only a weapon once it is used as such) in Ireland is your firearms certificate/licence for that firearm.

Once you have that(which includes a background check, medical history check, references, etc) you apply for essentially permission to import the firearm you are licenced for(an import permit).

Once you have those 2 documents you are set as far as Ireland goes.

From the German(or any EU country) side you simply need to send over the import permit(or a copy) which essentially certifies that you can have said firearm in your possession and can import it. From the German side the dealer/individual applies for a permit to allow them to export the firearm to the buyer or the buyer's firearms dealer. The German authorities will check that the Irish import permit is valid, ensure that the person in Germany can export said firearms, etc and then issue the permit.

There is no further certifications/licences/permits/permissions necessary after that point, which I think we can all agree is plenty since it covers the person buying the firearm, the person selling the firearm, both states that they are aware of the transaction and the import/export.

Now if you are talking about getting a German firearms licence that is a whole other kettle of fish which is not covered here since it has zilch to do with an import. 😉

Cass · 09-11-2021 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139322#Comment_118139322

Welcome to the forum. Just as a friendly note, they're not weapons, they're firearms.

Background checks are compulsory in Ireland when applying for a firearm. The site you mentioned is a "free" online background check website which are notoroiously unrelaible for a number of reasons:

They can only access online/digital info that is already public.
Any searches are automated, so no human check
The searches are not vetted by multiple sources
No guarantee of accuracy and a denial of liability if the check is not accurate.
Most importantly they can carry no "legal weight". IOW due to the dubious and murky check of such sites any decision based on their "info" would e wide open to legal challenge.

The other point is the end user is here in Ireland. Irish law states the onus is on the applicant to know the type of license required for the firearm they are licensing. This must be got before applying for an import license in the case of individual imports. For a registered firearms dealer there authorisation is already provided and no individual license is needed for the EU country exporting need only follow the law for their own country in terms of permanently exporting a firearm then the legal onus is on the RFD/person here to abide by the legal requirements of importing one.

The background checks in Ireland are fairly strong and encompass a variety of issues including, but not limited to:

Physical health
Mental health
Previous [if any] criminal history
Previous [if any] criminal convictions
Intemperate character [known to Gardaí]
Referrees (minimum two)
Signing away our [applicant] right to warrantles search of our home
Signing away our [applicant] right to medical privacy
Where we have lived previously in cases of multiple districts [all previous address]
Security inspection
Interviews

This process can take up to three months, sometimes longer and if there is so much as a comma out of place, your application will either be refused or you will be called in for an interview with the deciding officer[usually a Superintendent]. Any fraudulent applications are, under legislation, a criminal offense hence refusal and fine and/or imprisonment with a prohibited status attached to your name meaning you'll never own a firearm.

Ireland has one of the strictest sets of legislation when it comes to firearm ownership. All the above is only to apply. Getting the license, meeting the criteria for possession of a firearm, etc. is a long and continuing process that once started, neve ends. Owning a firearm in Ireland is not a right, its a privilege. I don't mean that in some lofty, "aren't we lucky" type of way, I mean the law states its a privilege and not a right meaning any offence, even something like drink driving, breach of the peace, etc. can result in being refused [if you don't own a firearm previously] or having your license(s) revoked. We [the shooting community] are constantly under "review".

otmmyboy2 · 09-11-2021 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118138325#Comment_118138325

Welcome!

It largely depends on the firearm we are talking about.

For a dealer in Ireland who has brought a lot of things in over the years from the EU I can recommend John Kavanagh at Fingal Sports.

He's a gent and has helped me out with myriad firearms imports over the years.

For an individual importing I could point you towards Triebel.de, Germany gunshop extraordinaire. They have a large selection and will often be able to source something if you ping them an email.

Alternatively you can contact a German dealer who would sell you the firearm, and get someone like https://ssl-waffentaxi.de/ to transport it, or Waffen-bock as Wadi said.

For an overview of how an import would work I'd suggest this thread going on currently:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058216740/importing-firearms

But in an abbreviated form:

1 - Find firearm, put down deposit and get serial number.

2 - Apply for firearms cert in Ireland.

3 - Receive firearms cert.

4 - Apply for import permit(google "firearms import permit individual Ireland" for the DoJ's site).

5 - Receive the import permit and send a copy of it(or a photo via email) to your German dealer.

6 - German dealer applies for the export permit.

7 - Export permit granted and you pay the balance.

8 - Firearm is shipped to you.

9 - Desperately refresh tracking website for a week/10 days until it arrives 😁

otmmyboy2 · 09-11-2021 12:03pm

Actually since you are looking for a BRX1:

https://sportwaffen-triebel.de/search?sSearch=brx1

Fielder's choice of 308 or 30-06 represented, but contact them and they will likely be able to get you the 300 win mag if that is the one you have your heart set on 😉

And as a slight addendum, Courtlough here are Beretta dealers, so might be worth giving them a call to see could they get one in for you, if you fancy avoiding the import process yourself:

https://www.beretta.com/en/shop-in-shops/ireland/Courtlough-Shooting-Grounds/

musashie · 09-11-2021 12:54pm

Thanks,

Originally looking at Bergara HMR Wilderness. But not much savings there. But the Beretta BRX 1 looks good. Probably not for sale here for a bit. I was wondering could I get it in from europe quicker.And was curios to know how long it might take.

otmmyboy2 · 09-11-2021 1:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140929#Comment_118140929

Talk to Courtlough and see can they get one in, and if so get a timeline.

From a dealer in europe you are looking at:

Between 2 weeks to 3+ months for the licence here.

1-2 weeks for the import permit.

1-3 weeks for the export permit from Germany(other countries vary substantially).

1 week - 10 days to arrive here once shipped.

Factor in any delays in shipping/processing and you are looking at between 5 - 6 weeks(absolute best case that is theoretically possible) to 4.5 - 6 months, from the time you put in your application til you have the firearm in your possession.

The longest part, by far, is the processing time for the licence here which entirely depends on your firearms officer, district superintendent, etc.

musashie · 09-11-2021 5:36pm

Can anyone recommend EU dealer to export Beretta BRX 1?. I am confused as to online gun stores and EU exporters and the relationship with both. Do I order direct from online store. Most I have tried refuse to deliver to Ireland....

GooseB · 09-11-2021 7:13pm

"Welcome to the forum. Just as a friendly note, they're not weapons, they're firearms."

I know why shooters say this (anything is potentially a weapon if used in such manner) but to me it seems self defeating. Firearms are weapons. Arms - "weapons collectively", "weapons and explosives used in fighting wars"

So a firearm is a weapon that uses "fire", ie: combustion in it's operation. Replacing the actual word "weapon" with an alternative word for "weapon" seems pointless. It's a gun. Should we all just point out to people that they're not weapons, they're guns?

Cass · 09-11-2021 7:43pm

This debate comes up regularly enough and its not something I tend to "nit-pick" on, but for new users I like to just re-inforce the wording.

I have a firearm. My firearm(s) is/are licensed to me via a firearms license, all done under the firearms act. Now if you wish to use gun, rifle, boom-stick that is your choice and no one here, least of all me, will fall out with you over it.

The only time Weapon was used in relation to legislation was the 1990 offensive weapons act and I don't get upset or in a tizzy over that because of the reason for the act. Its to highlight what constitutes a weapon, a device or implement used to inflict harm, injury or death on others so the meaning is apt. The entire act outlines what would constitute such a weapon and covers everything from knives, to pointed objects to blunt instruments, etc. As we've said before a hurl in the wrong hands is a weapon, but to those that use it for sports, its a hurl.

Its a simple PR thing. Weapon conjures images of injury, harm and death, usually towards other people. We never use our firearms for such and in America where there is a constitutional right to firearms they can say as they please, but in most every other country, and most importantly here in Ireland, there is no right to firearms so I like to distance myself from inflammatory/incendiary words or anything that would invoke such imagery in others.

I'll leave it with this:

Weapon - a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage
Firearm - a rifle, pistol, or other portable gun.

We have number 2.

As said its not a falling out issue, just a personal preference.

Grizzly 45 · 09-11-2021 7:50pm

You can indeed order the gun online.BUT the dealer will not ship it from whatever country you are ordering from until they have the following from you;

1] Proof of license to use in Ireland [2] A import cert granted from the Dept of Justice to import such a gun to Ireland [3] Payment in full and payment for administration and shipment on their side.

Without part one here IE a license from the AGS, all the rest is irrelevant. As you will need that to apply for the import license, and you will have to either pay in full for the gun over in whatever EU country you are buying it from or make an agreement with the foreign dealer that pending licensing for that particular gun,[IE you need the serial number for the license application here] that pending granting of your cert you are putting a deposit on it. So you would want to make sure you will be granted the cert by your Super first off before committing a large sum or a non-refundable deposit.

So once you clear that hurdle first, you will get places.

Why many won't ship to Ireland can be simply because the shipping and transport costs by specialised courier just aren't worth their time and profit. Or simply because some still think when you say Ireland, they immediately think Northern Ireland and us still being part of the UK.As happened to one poster here...More than likely it is simply the cost of couriering it to Ireland that makes this unviable along with the long delays in paperwork by their national authority.[The Dutch can take 6 months!]

musashie · 14-11-2021 11:31am

Thanks grizzly 45. I see Triebel looking for €170 shipping fees. Frankonia only looking for €14 shipping fees. Big difference. Irish address listed for delivery both check outs. As you say frankonia require forwarding agency. I presume this is exporter. Do you/anyone have details for german exporter and approx costs to use same.?

Thanks

musashie · 14-11-2021 11:37am

Thanks tommyboy - Got onto courtlough. No go till next year they said. If i was to use triebel and order through them would i still need a forwarding agency. This is what frankonia are saying?

Thanks

Grizzly 45 · 14-11-2021 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164164#Comment_118164164

Frankonia charging 14 euros for anything....That's suspicious in itself... They are THE most expensive shooting sports shop in Germany these days. You are in Holland&Holland leauge to be shopping with them anymore. So either they have made up the shipping cost in the price of the rifle,or they missed a zero on that price quote, or that's just their price to move it to the forwarder AKA shipping company. That's where the expense comes in, and there are few and far between who will move arms and ammo across the EU anymore, and some like Deutsche post/DHL quote around 450 euros delivered to customs in Dublin, and you pick it up yourself.

Treibel are good to deal with,if you can get to talk to Katja Treibel herself,[The 1st lady of shooters rights fighting in Europe and Germany], all the better. She is a tough little no-nonsense Spandau woman who gets sht done,and if she says it can be got or done it can and will be. Her English is excellent too]

The 170 Treibel is quoting is at least a realistic and a quotable figure. So I would go with that and let them deal with it. I'd just make sure that's the price for the shipment of two parcels,as per some new security policy with either German Govt/EU or the courier companies themselves, firearms have to be sent in two separate packages.

itisnotgrand · 11-12-2022 1:21pm

Anyone imported from UK lately? What’s the procedure

Wadi14 · 11-12-2022 8:04pm

Last import I did I got sent to NI RFD and imported then myself after I had license, and import document from DOJ,

if you import directly from UK your liable to custom duties.

Gumbo · 19-12-2022 9:44am

I thought I’d update the thread as I contacted theduke.de with a view of buying a Rifle from them.

Once I get the Import Licence they charge €200 for their side of licence and shipping.

Might help with anyone considering importing from them.

I didn’t buy the Rifle in the end.

Grizzly 45 · 19-12-2022 1:02pm

That would be a standard postal/courier charge for any of them these days from Germany.

You could ask them to try waffentaxi.de.It might take a bit longer in delivery,[Mostly due to Irish customs,is the feedback I've got from German courier companies]but can be a bit cheaper than DP/DHL

otmmyboy2 · 19-12-2022 2:19pm

Recently got 2 firearms shipped from Germany, total of about 60 for shipping and 55 for the export paperwork(their export permits cost 50 for 1 essential item(whole gun or an essential component) and 5 for subsequent items.

Also due to EU law firearms must be shipped in a non functional state, so that means 2 couriered packages with half a firearm in both, which adds to costs.

Very happy with that cost tbh vs the markup on both firearms that would happen here, if they were available in Ireland that is.

Wadi14 · 20-12-2022 12:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120014427#Comment_120014427

That's a good price for shipping, what company was that with if you don't mind saying. Small items like magazines posted are running between €20-€25 at the moment.

otmmyboy2 · 20-12-2022 1:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120016657#Comment_120016657

UPS, but that was with a dealer in Germany's deal with them, so your mileage may vary ;-)

It was also flat rate, so if I ordered a magazine or a pair of rifles it was the same price.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Importing firearms

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County