The creeping prominence of the Irish language

In a vacuum the dominant language is necessary it doesn't matter what it is.

English is necessary, I live in Ireland.

I don't care what language you speak to your family in but I'm going to make two assumptions, 1 - you also live in Ireland, and 2- your kids can also speak English. So you don't need to speak to them in Irish you want to and I'm not going to stop you, even if I could, but that doesn't detract from it being unnecessary.

I could relearn Irish but there's no benefit for me in doing so.

But it was you who mentioned costs, would have thought you could have expanded on it, no? Maybe not so

It's not my criteria - it's what the words actually mean.

Seomra a haon a naid a haon.

It is merely a reversal on how English became the defacto of the Irish state. A reversal of that colonial mindset. Some will never change from it. You may call it forced learning. I call it a change of mindset and incentivisation - get them young simple as that.

All phased Gaelscoils and Naíonra would do this fairly simple. You seem to forget that English was forced upon the Irish people. In fact the Irish language was banned/discouraged. What I propose is a much softer reversal in comparison, but tougher than the half assed messing that the Irish government does currently with the Irish language. The OP is a prime example of a consequence of such half assed messing. A deep seated colonialist hangover.

I do not propose banning the English language merely incentivising Irish language use and in 20 years the Irish language would be in a much better place IMO. With entrenched/odd views like the OP which are odd it is the only way to go. Otherwise there is no point in it. If they are going to do it at all it should be done right once and for all.

I disagree, given that it starts off with the youth and the youth will have no baggage to the Irish language. It should not be an issue.The youth are blank canvases

Complete educational reform is the way if people were really serious about it. And it should be done on a non partisan party political level. Either they support the improvement of the state of the Irish language or they are only messing around otherwise with half measures. After a complete educational overhaul with the all Irish schools in 20 years there would be a generation with no baggage to the Irish language as it was the norm. Also there would be an appreciation and love for the language. No fear of it. The next focus after that would be state bodies etc. And gradually the Dail would mainly function in Irish in another 20 years (as most politicians are about 40 ish and up. So by the majority would have the required Irish language level to debate in Irish.

If my plan was implemented and done properly - I would guess in 50 years time Irish society would happily switch between Irish and English in conversation. Or whatever other language they happen to speak. The baggage many currently have with the Irish language would be lifted. And there would be a 180 on the current mindset that Irish is somehow 'other'.

That plan kind of falls down once you have to find 66,000 Irish speaking qualified teachers.

"The youth are little more than blank canvasses" - that's delusional for so many reasons. One - you have no respect for the youth or what they want, instead seeing them as mindless tools to do you bidding; Two - the fact that the youth are your biggest obstacle and most opposed to the idea. They don't like school and exams to start off with and that's before you even get to how the feel about Irish and the idea of getting them to do it what is to a lot of them a foreign language.

If the mindset is not there - and you say it is - it's not going to magially come back by forcing it upon people and making theri education and their childrens' education even more difficut and stressful.

You have zero respect for the people who are the most inportant and you think they'll succum to your bidding on a whim...??

So if being taught through Irish fosters a love of the language how do you explain people like me who were taught through Irish (up until third year in my case) but still have no love for the language? To the gulag with them?

You are just making generalised statements now I have made my points extremely clear. You on the other hand just want to shoot down constantly that seems to be your posting style.

Plenty of questions but no actual ideas of your own, or real interesting comments on the issue. Which I think is in part your own bias on the Irish language issue - if I am to be brutally honest.

You just don't seem to like my answers or opinions on the issue and that is fine. It is an internet debate forum. But don't try this muddying the water craic. I have clearly said this thread is evidence to me of a colonial mindset an odd one at that.

But is evident in India following British rule, where there was a group of Indians who wanted to replace Hindi and other Indian dialects with English. And as a result much of the Indian education system is done through English and viewed as the superior language.

People may not even realise it but that is what it is. If it can cause a societal linguistic change once under duress in 150 years, I believe in this day and age it is possible to change it back (somewhat) all it takes is focus on the youth who have little of the same hang ups many of the posters on this thread have including the OP.

I mentioned how the OP views the Irish language as an enveloping lava some sort of threat. Yet the OP never explained why he/she views the Irish language as a threat. Others in the middle ground have mentioned that most in Ireland do not speak Irish as a community language, but think it would be 'a shame' if it went.

I think it is those middle ground who are young parents who need the push. I believe that middle ground would have no problem with an Irish language immersion education system.

Make it really free no 'voluntary contributions' required and see what happens. Gradually phase it in as I already mentioned Playschool - Primary then secondary. It is about 16 years for one full educational cycle prior to university (including playschool).

Never mind the fringe people like the OP who are going to hate Irish no matter what anyway. Or those fluent in Irish who believe there is only one sort of Irish language etc.

I am on about the middle ground and I firmly believe if that middle ground were given the necessary incentive and push - in 50 years Irish and English would be used interchangeably in conversation in Ireland. In a natural manner.

OK, the standard may not be as high as English but it would be much improved to the current situation of just 100k speaking the language, as a community one.

It was just a language I spoke and did schoolwork in, I neither liked nor disliked it at the time but once I left school there was no real point to it. I have no real romantic attachment to any language. I speak English because that's how you get around in Ireland and I speak Japanese, not as well as I'd like mind you, because I like Japanese media.

I don't think I'm that unique either, my sister feels the same way about Irish, we went to the same schools, and ~2,500 students finish their education through Irish every year and I don't see them waving flags about Irish either.

But the point is that you have it and you can understand it - hold a conversation that is the starting point. You don't have to go around flag waving or anything. It is a foundation a start, which if everyone had the Irish language would be on a much more solid footing IMO. If people in daily life service industry use Irish as a matter of course you would have not much issue using Irish in a conversation. You would at the very least understand it and the bits you have forgotten would come back to you. But to me immersion education would be the bedrock of eventually reaching that stage where services in Ireland are done through Irish or Irish/English interchangeably.

Again - its the people you nee to convince, not the politicians. They won't do a think that will cost them that many votes. Saying "I think people are..." proves to me that you don't know. And you've no interest in finding out.

And it most certainly IS about what YOU want. I agree with your last couple of sentences, but you need to sell the idea not make demands of people.

Yur frist step is to conduct a poll or canvas opinion. Publish some evidence that a majority of people are in for this idea - and specifcially, this idea, census results don't ask this. Then - and only then - can it move forward.

This is partly my point in my opinion there is a whole middle ground waiting to be incentivised. They just need a push IMO. Make it socially and socially more acceptable to speak Irish in Ireland. Give monetary incentives in education get them young. The majority of parents won't complain if there was an all Irish medium of education phased in at much less cost to those of English medium schools. It could become the norm. By osmosis some parents might even reignite their latent Irish or some might gain an interest

If you look at all the climate change stuff now and the change in attitudes from 30 years ago people would have laughed at you back then. Incentivisation, education, societal responsibility and the creation of new societal/cultural norms has resulted in the current change. People need to be given a bit of a push and an incentive until societal norms change and it becomes normalised.

If you get some Irish people abroad and they are not normally Irish speakers. And they see countries of other nations speaking their native tongue. Suddenly some of them get a burst of pride or shame and speak the 'cúpla focal'.

It is there to be tapped into. I remember Bernard Dunne (former boxer) mic in hand standing in the middle of Croke Park promoting Irish. His opening lines were 'I failed Irish at school....'

But then through education I believe it was a Sports related discipline he got the education bug, and gave Irish a lash again and found he enjoyed it. There is definitely an untapped number who just need that incentive/encouragement and push.

It takes effort. They don't want to do it. Full stop.

I'm sure there's things you couldn't care less about learning.

Can you not accept that and move on?

It's an opinion board and that is mine it is not a question of shushing people and brushing it under the carpet. My point is people do want to do it. They have just not been given the necessary impetus.

Drink Driving - Culture changed (It used to be just the two will do)

Smoking Ban - some people referred to it as the nanny state it has worked - the culture changed

Climate Change Measures - we now buy peat from Latvia try explaining that to someone even a few years ago - Mary Harney banning non smokeless coal was seen as splitting the atom at one stage

Some did not want to this - but the majority went along with the status quo and it work. It became the norm.

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However in my scenario it would be positive incentives rather than negatives relating to the Irish language. You have already admitted that laziness among the large majority is a factor. Even though they would not like the Irish language gone.

It is just a small bit of incentive they need that someone else puts in place for them simple as that. Amazed it has not been at least tried at this stage. A complete Educational revamp and Irish immersion at different stages and phased in simple. 20 years time plus would see results.