Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

Grizzly 45 · 07-11-2021 5:05pm

US jurisdictions have generally settled that question.

Indeed they have, as have European ones as well.And on that basis, this should never have been even a trial on this. It's a political media show trial. Can be sure if one of those BLM/Antifa scum had killed RH, it would have been an "Ah well that white boy shouldn't have been there!" and no trial whatsoever.

Proving "malice aforethought" is a biatch for the prosecution in this case ...Their witnesses are sinking the state's case and the FBI literally hiding evidence of the thermal film is making it look more and more like a show trial.

Grizzly 45 · 07-11-2021 5:16pm

It is not illegal for an under-18 to possess a long gun in either Illinois or Wisconsin even if it is illegal for a dealer to sell such a gun to such a person

Did he lie?As it was RH cousin[?] that according to his testimony bought the gun for Kyle's use on the family shooting range until he turned 18,which at the time was 6/7 months away? So it was a legal purchase by Kyles adult relative for himself and allowing its usage under supervision on private property,with whatever state variations may exist.

Mellor · 08-11-2021 11:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131514#Comment_118131514

Not sure who that is in related to the 3 people shot, or RH for that matter. But if that's been established in court it's a huge piece of evidence.

An old (media) report I read suggested there was confusion as to who arm people in the area shot first, and what Rosenbaum was armed with - (less important).

Mellor · 08-11-2021 12:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131991#Comment_118131991

RH was dating Black's sister, so presumably not related. He said that he bought the gun with RH's covid cheque. He knew it was illegal, so agreed that Black would hold on to it until RH was 18. In another statement he said RH's mother was to apply for firearm owners ID so RH could have it at his house. It's quite possible that they did it by the book to that point and he did lie on the form. ie to the best of his knowledge at the time of buying it.

But afaik, he hasn't been charged with lying on the form. His charge is supplying a minor with a firearm.

Grizzly 45 · 08-11-2021 1:29pm

Supplying a minor is probably the clearer of the charges, the others presumably of falsifying the 4473 are too obtuse under the laws of either state to be a solid charge?

Grizzly 45 · 08-11-2021 1:33pm

And in another interesting development, we now have George Floyds, nephew, trying a bit of jury intimidation in this case.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/watch-george-floyds-nephew-makes-video-threatening-jurors-not-convict-kyle-rittenhouse/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=the-gateway-pundit&utm_campaign=dailypm&utm_content=daily

Munsterlad102 · 08-11-2021 5:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131302#Comment_118131302

I'll have to differ to you or anyone else regarding the specifics of firearm possession of a minor, as I really don't know enough to add anything further. If the wording is sloppy, as you said perhaps there is a loophole for open carrying, like I said I don't know.

Regarding the self defence, extinguishing a fire isn't provocation and doesn't warrant a physical response from Rosenbaum. So RH was in the right to defend himself, like he couldn't just stand there and get potentially shot with his own firearm.

I will give you that, about not knowing RB was a paedophile, I sort of walked into that one. But it does go to further show his motivation, he had already feigned running at people, was rioting and looting and had a criminal history so looking back, one can only assume he planned on stealing RH's rifle and perhaps even shooting him. However now that his was killed by RH, I think we can all agree that the world is a slightly better place without him.

Ok, I might have misinterpreted a few of your previous messages then. Yeah I agree, I don't know of anything to show that RH attacked first, but there is a gap in what I've seen between him extinguishing the fire and him being chased down. And yeah, RH wasn't thinking about the reality of things when he put out the fire, angering a mob, even if you're armed, is never a good idea.

BattleCorp1 · 08-11-2021 6:06pm

Non-legal view but I think the prosecution have their work cut out to get Rittenhouse on any of the serious charges.

I think the first shooting is the most contentious shooting when it comes to self-defence as it isn't caught on camera. In the second two shootings, it's pretty clear that Rittenhouse was retreating and was attacked.

Regarding the first altercation, the evidence given in the link below seems to help Kyle Rittenhouse. Rosenbaum chased Rittenhouse and it's hard to see how it could be viewed that Rittenhouse provoked the interaction between himself and Rosenbaum.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/07/us/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-what-video-evidence-shows/index.html

My money is on Rittenhouse to walk.

Manic Moran · 09-11-2021 3:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135375#Comment_118135375

As Rb was chasing Rh through the parking lot, they ran past Ziminski who was walking. Ziminski then fired a shot into the air just after they ran by (I.e, 10-15 feet behind the two runners). Rittenhouse fired less than three seconds later. It is not difficult to imagine that Rh thought the gunshot came from the man chasing him, given the proximity of the discharge.

“I think the first shooting is the most contentious shooting when it comes to self-defence as it isn't caught on camera.”

It was caught on the FBI aerial surveillance which was first seen in public last week, as well as fully witnessed by the Daily Caller videographer who took the stand last week.

Mellor · 09-11-2021 11:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139376#Comment_118139376

If that's not been established then, as I said, it's huge evidence in his favour. He's being chase somebody shots behind him. He turns and has seconds to decide how to act. The guy who shot a "warning shot" carrys some blame for escalating the situation. I was under the impression, he was being chased, "scene missing", he turned back and open fire.

I don't for a second think he was capable of patrolling the streets with a firearm. A capable person may have maintained control of the situation or dealt with RB in the manner required. But I don't think his inexperience makes him a criminal - other than the firearms charges in isolation.

BattleCorp1 · 09-11-2021 3:18pm

Stolen from somewhere else on Boards but very relevant here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ7SyNqqUjE&t=38s

Grizzly 45 · 09-11-2021 7:17pm

Re the above prosecutor's face...When your prime witness admits pointing a loaded gun at someone and becomes a "one armed bandit?"..... I'll get my coat.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/witness-gaige-grosskreutz-forced-admit-pointed-gun-kyle-rittenhouse-got-arm-blown-off-video/?ff_source=Email&ff_medium=the-gateway-pundit&ff_campaign=dailypm&ff_content=daily

Feisar · 10-11-2021 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142718#Comment_118142718

I still believe the kid should have stayed the fúck at home but bloody hell what was yer man expecting. He can hardly be upset can he?

I didn't know that about full auto ARs, thought they were basically the same rifle. (Earlier comments)

BattleCorp1 · 10-11-2021 5:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142718#Comment_118142718

I'd love if the media just reported facts instead of making sh1te up. Yer man Grosskreutz didn't have his arm blown off. He had a large part of his bicep blown off due to his own stupidity. That's not quite the same as losing the arm.

Cass · 10-11-2021 6:50pm

Judge has admonished the prosecutor for not the first time. Citing constitutional vioaltions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_7HogWH7Zs

Grizzly 45 · 10-11-2021 10:50pm

I didn't know that about full auto ARs, thought they were basically the same rifle. (Earlier comments)

It certainly was with the Colt M4s, as they were primarily the only official select-fire AR platform until HK got in on the act,[and their lower is a totally different configuration in internal specs and pin locations,and will only accept proprietary HK uppers]. The M4/AR specs were pointed out to me by my then landlord, a USMC corporal who also owned a civvie AR HBAR back in the late 90s. It certainly could have changed by now 25+ years later,but I'd assume with no further full auto stuff being built and sold over there apart from dealer samples it still holds true.

Mellor · 11-11-2021 5:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147498#Comment_118147498

Was he referencing the 5th amendment?

What exactly was prosecutor hinting at, or trying to hint at?

BattleCorp1 · 11-11-2021 10:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149260#Comment_118149260

I'd guess the prosecutor is inferring that Kyle Rittenhouse knew he did something illegal because he invoked his right to silence.

Cass · 11-11-2021 12:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149260#Comment_118149260

That Rittenhouse had stayed silent since the moment of his arrest and because of the testimony of the witnesses (prosecution & defense) he has changed the narrative of his story to "line up" with what they said.

The judge chastized the prosecutor for outright saying, not just hinting, that Rittenhouse should have ignored/waived his 5th amendment rights when arrested to which the judge said he is constitutionally entitled and protected by the 5th and to say he [RH] shouldn't have envoked it is a contitutional violation.

Mellor · 11-11-2021 12:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118150228#Comment_118150228

Seems like an incredible naive statement. I read one claim that the prosecution may have been intentionally trying to get a mistrial.

In what way did he change his story to line up with Witnesses? That’s an odd thing to say. Especially when he didn’t have a story as he was silent.

Cass · 11-11-2021 12:39pm

Mellor - In what way did he change his story to line up with Witnesses? That’s an odd thing to say. Especially when he didn’t have a story as he was silent.

I honestly don't know. As I said above, or a few days back, I'm not following this trial or rather wasn't until I read some of the posts above which got me curious. I'm still not following it as such, but do see the occasional live stream from the trial.

I assume the defense put forward a case for self defense, from the outset, for the shooting and as Rittenhouse will be the last person to take stand he has had the benefit of listening to people either purposefully or accidentally strengthen/validate his defence through their testimony. As such Rittenhouse, and his defense team, have "changed" their narrative to make sure that any statements/answer Rittenhouse gives comes in line with what the previous witnesses said.

This seems to be the "accusation" the prosecutor is levelling at him and why the Judge scolded him [prosecutor] for suggesting that Rittenhouse should not have "hid" behind the 5th.

tonysopprano · 12-11-2021 1:58am

Just like we have here, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. What the guards don't tell you is "anything you say WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU, AND cannot be used in your DEFENSE, so SHUT YOUR MOUTH.

tonysopprano · 12-11-2021 2:02am

Stum, say nothing, demand a solicitor, and demand place , you are happy with

Feisar · 12-11-2021 9:59am

He was well schooled anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G54ylg--I9E&ab_channel=WashingtonPost

BattleCorp1 · 12-11-2021 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154698#Comment_118154698

Or believes he did absolutely nothing wrong and is genuinely traumatised by the events that happened on that night.

Feisar · 12-11-2021 11:50am

Ah the Mister, Mister Rosenbaum stuff is a far cry from the lad that was telling people "you need to step back there" from an early clip I seen from twitter.

Grizzly 45 · 12-11-2021 9:55pm

Still and all, he shot 2 and a half people. Whether they are scumbags of the lowest order or not. They are still human beings and it does leave a mark on you if you have had to take a human life whether in the heat of battle or defending your life like in this case. Unless you are a Psychopath or Sociopath then you would be utterly remorseless or emotionless about killing anyone.

So him being emotional IMO would be pretty normal.Despite what Dckheads like Le Bron James and Co have to say for themselves.

tonysopprano · 13-11-2021 10:38pm

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/breaking-exclusive-potential-witness-tampering-gaige-grosskreutz-felon-aimed-gun-kyle-rittenhouse-two-prior-charges-dismissed-prosecutors-days-trial/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=the-gateway-pundit&utm_campaign=dailypm&utm_content=daily

Cass · 13-11-2021 10:53pm

A "dirty" trick by the prosecution, but not unheard off (if Law & Order is to be belived 😁), and I believe completely legal. Don't think it rises to witness tampering and its highly unusual for witness tamepring to be done by either side on their OWN witness.

They most liekly struck a deal or refused to prosecute to make him more credible. Its an incentive for prosecution witnesses to give testimony without fear of prosecution for any actions/laws they may have committed.

Having said that if I were the prosecution and based on the video(s) above and what he said on the stand, I'd be looking for a refund. 🤣

BattleCorp1 · 15-11-2021 5:55pm

Rittenhouse cleared of illegal possession of the firearm so that's two charges dismissed so far (breaking curfew was dismissed over a week ago).

Now waiting for closing arguments and then the deliberation.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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