Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

challenging BER result?

  • 05-11-2021 11:49am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭


    Howdy

    Has it been done?

    Asking as helping relative sell house.

    Arranged BER via EA.


    House is 60+ yrs old terrace.

    Over in last 5 years 100k was put into renovations, including

    -new roof and insulation

    -solar H/W system

    - zoned condensing boiler (gas)

    -triple glazing

    -Interior of each external wall lined with 57 mm insulated plasterbord

    -Porch added

    -all bulbs are long life and/or LED's


    edit, fireplace removed, blocked and insulated plasterboard


    Flippin utility bills are pennies


    BER came back as a B3

    Walls rated as poor, is it a case of computer says no?



    Ta in advance



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    My understanding is that the BER assessor needs to see proof of something or will just assume the worse. So unless they could verify the walls were insulted you wouldn't get credit for it. Was the owner there when assessment carried out to advise of work done?

    There are some on here that do BER's so hopefully can advise if it is possible to appeal or contact assessor to get it changed but would have to provide proof of insulation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 397 ✭✭Biker1


    There is a very rigid criteria that all assessors have to follow when entering data into DEAP. Unless there is definitive proof of the manufacturer, type and thickness of insulation in any element then defaults have to be used.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭neilthefunkeone


    We are in a 1930s build end of terrace, pretty much same work done except external insulation and ours came in b3 as well!

    Probably can't break into A rating unless new build?



  • Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭what?


    thanks for the info and answers folks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    If you really want to get to the A rating, you could download the software and get the file used to make your report. It takes a bit of learning but it can be down and then just play around with it to see how much more you would need. It is very hard to know what might be needed without your file.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101



    How would you get the file used to make report? From the original assessor, Would they have to keep a copy?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,385 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    They have to keep the file as they're subject to random audits by the SEAI. However, they're not obliged to give you a copy of the file either. You can ask, but they can easily say no.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,058 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Under FOI and GDPR they'd be in trouble if you they don't provide you with your data on request.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,512 ✭✭✭Wheety




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,385 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    They may have to provide certain data, or even a printed copy of some of the data. But I don't think either FOI or GDPR entitles you to the actual DEAP file or calculations used for your assessment.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Don't think its my data, its my house alright but the BER was done before I bought it.

    Be great if I could get and personally I feel data like that should be kept in a national database and available, might chance my arm with the assessor and see.

    I had set myself up on https://deap.seai.ie/ to try input details but if there was report with all details already input be great.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,385 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    You're entitled to the results of the assessment (which should be provided with the sale), but you're not entitled to the files and data used to produce those results (unless where subject to FOI and GDPR data, but that's generally about personal data, not the dwelling assessment).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,147 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    you'd need an airtightness test to get an A rating i think?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    The SEAI gave me mine for my new build. Email them and ask for your XML file. I am glad that I didnt have to chase the assessor who did the job (and did it badly).



  • Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭headtheball14


    The entire database is available to download on seai website , it may not have all the detail you need but is freely available for all bers

    https://ndber.seai.ie/BERResearchTool/ber/search.aspx



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,656 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    How do you figure that the assessors intellectual property is anyone elses data?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,058 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    They have data relating to your address so that's your data.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 397 ✭✭Biker1


    "All" the data relating to your address is contained in the DEAP file held in the NAS system. There is no other data held by a BER assessor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,656 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    No it's not. It's their property. Being entitled to the report or results doesn't mean you are entitled to the information used to generate the report.

    As an obvious example, If I design a new extension for a building you own. The digital design files files used to generate that design are my property. The fact it is your address doesn't mean you can claim them.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    And on the basis of a specific request for that data relating to my property, SEAI have refused to give me access to it, and effectively confirmed to me that the entire system is a massive con that's there to keep the select few in a cushy number that's a licence to print money, no matter how bad a job they do.

    We had a BER done in 2020, and I know from looking at it in more detail recently, there were a number of mistakes in the result, I didn't look that closely at the time, but as a result of some other things happening now, I looked more closely, and I don't like what I found

    I resent being forced to use so called specialists to do things that I am capable of doing, and resent even more that they are refusing to give me access to information that I have paid for.

    We have made several significant changes here since the 2020 BER was done, and what I want to do is get an idea of where we are now, and what difference other changes that we're considering might make, but given the sort of money involved, I'm damned if I am going to pay a BER consultant to "advise" us, and then pay again for a repeat of the same work if we end up getting grant aid and have to do yet another BER to update the existing BER, even more so if the existing BER is already above the minimum required for the grant assist.

    I've spent a lot of time over the last few weeks looking very closely at a whole range of issues around energy usage, and related issues, and the more I look, the less I like what I am seeing, in that I am seeing a closed shop situation that's doing very little to help the end user, and a lot more to line the pockets of the select few that are inside the select group of "approved" SEAI providers etc.

    Given the number of issues I am seeing with problems with things like Solar systems that are not working correctly, and heat pumps that should never have been installed, the phrase "wild west" comes to mind, I had thought that the cowboys had been rooted out of the system, but clearly, they have just moved on to the more exotic things like heat pumps and solar systems, on the basis that in the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

    Sick of this crap, and the nonsense that is being spewed by Ryan and his cronies, it's unfortunately becoming very clear that he's clueless, and not even in the same park as the rest of us, so the concept of trusting anything he says, or puts into place through outfits like SEAI is looking increasingly suspect.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    An update, some of it helpful, some just confirming my feelings about the real agenda at SEAI.

    I discovered a very interesting piece of information in the SEAI documentation, and on foot of that, a strongly worded E-mail was sent to SEAI in respect of the specific details of the BER for the property, as their documentation makes it very clear that on foot of legislation, they have to provide the data file to the home owner.

    I received the XML file later that day, but here's the catch, and confirmation of the issues. It's no longer any help to me, as it can't be loaded into the DEAP software version 4, (which is was prepared with) unless you are a fully registered SEAI assessor. So, I can have access to the software as the home owner, and can create a DEAP file that relates to the property, but I can't upload the XML file that give the existing data for the property, and it can't be loaded into the off line spread sheet either, so effectively, SEAI are obeying their obligation in law, but the information they are providing is effectively useless as it can no longer be used with an appropriate software package.

    It serves to confirm that SEAI are NOT operating for the benefit of home and business owners, they're effectively running a closed shop that is primarily operating to line the pockets of their select few who are "approved".

    I have a problem with this concept, in that for some grants, you have to reach a specific level of BER AND HEA, and if you don't reach them, you don't get the grant. Problem with this concept is that you have to get the audit done before you can apply for the grant, and if you fail, you've spent a lot of money for nothing other than a piece of paper that explains just how much more you're going to have to spend in order to get the grant, and yes, you got it, you can't apply again without another (expensive) survey.

    The issue for me is that there's no way to do a "what if" and see how much difference various possible changes might make to the end result, unless you want to risk spending more and more money and time getting new reports.

    I just hope we can make changes at a political level before too long that takes Ryan and the rest of the "greens" out of the loop, and that they are replaced by people who are truly committed to an agenda to help home owners with the real problems they are facing as a result of the seismic shifts in policy and energy costs that are happening on an almost daily basis. What's very clear at the moment is that where energy and related issues are concerned, we are not being well served by the people who are in power.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



Advertisement