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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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    #10892
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118133303#Comment_118133303

    He was also our best player in the 2016 game at the Aviva IMO.

    He always plays well v NZ. Dropping Josh would be a madness.



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    #10893
    Blue4u
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118132555#Comment_118132555

    Funny because Harry was in front of me during the warm up at the start of the game, I expect he had to be ready if Carbery/Sexton pulled up in the warm up

    One thing to note, the amount of strapping on Carbery's legs, he was warming up in second half in front of us and a number of people made comments about it.



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    #10894
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118133056#Comment_118133056

    3 tries in 20 equates to impact surely.



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    #10895
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,820 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Apologies on Harry Byrne lads...I saw a post on Instagram saying he was playing in the AIL on Saturday.

    You can't believe everything you read on the internet.*


    *Abraham Lincoln



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    #10896
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭OldRio


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118133501#Comment_118133501

    Ahh now, yes, all players played equal. Everyone was exactly the same. Everyone 100%. Tis that simple.



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    #10897
    mogwai81
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭mogwai81


    Bit of a random question, does anyone know where the All Blacks are staying in Dublin? A kiwi work mate wants to go there with his son in the hope of seeing the players. Thanks in advance.



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    #10898
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118134182#Comment_118134182

    Finally....you agree!!



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    #10899
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118133501#Comment_118133501

    Oh cmon. Most reductive view humanly possible?



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    #10900
    RugbyLover123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭RugbyLover123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118134762#Comment_118134762

    The last time they stayed in the Crowne Plaza in Blanchardstown but they usually stay in the Castleknock hotel. They train in Westmanstown.



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    #10901
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118134835#Comment_118134835

    I'm just exaggerating my point to show that I don't agree with the growing narrative that the replacements were poor or had no impact on Saturday. Carbery was poor but I thought the rest of them ranged from grand to very good (Henderson primarily).



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    #10902
    mogwai81
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭mogwai81


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118134936#Comment_118134936

    Thanks for the info!



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    #10903
    Blue4u
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118134936#Comment_118134936

    The Crowne Plaza in Blanch is a bit of a step down from Castleknock hotel, waking up in the morning and looking out on a shopping centre :-) they have trained in Coolmine rugby before(I think so)



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    #10904
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    Love the comments from Farrell regarding heads up rugby. i hope it continues against New Zealand. We have the skillset.

    It was a huge sea change but even under Joe we offloaded in these types of games. I will get on board fully if the type of offload Ringrose did in the first half for the try continues. That offlaod was a beaut and the type that NZ do in their sleep.

    Japan were utterly crap however. Yes we didn't let them play but lets not overhype it. The key game is against NZ. I'm feeling a tad more confident as there were no real signs of ring rustiness there.

    And right now Sexton is the number 1. The issue many people on here have about that isn't that fact. its when he's 38 will that still be the case. Right now Sexton is still one of the best outhalfs in the World. It does make it tricky to navigate replacements. for what its worth i think Healy will be the heir apparent. Unlucky for Joey but the injury and a touch of hype really ruined things.

    If Murray comes back in for NZ, it won't be the right call.



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    #10905
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,316 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Have to be very happy with that performance on Saturday, say what you like about the opposition we were excellent. Can't do much more than that.



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    #10906
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131815#Comment_118131815

    doesn't matter what people say. he's centrally contracted, Munster captain and part of brand Ireland. He's always going to be in the squad till he retires. He shouldn't be though, on form in actual rugby terms. but he is and he's grand. he might be adding huge things in training, meetings etc. fine we can all get that.

    The most valuable thing he brings is his leadership, standards, lineout and personable qualities which are very high. As a squad option he's grand. Most people's problem is when he is a bona fide starter. The NZ game will tell us alot about midsets and pressures of selection if Murray and POM are or aren't in the side. If they are, i think its fair to say people have been correct all along and its other factors selecting them. cause it isn't form.

    Hopefully neither are selected for the 15.

    For me POM never nailed down the right role. IF he was a kiwi he'd be a rangy 8 or he could have just been a 7.

    He's going to be in the squads so people need to accept that.



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    #10907
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Would there be any complaints if we put out the exact same 23?

    From the players’ point of view, as a clean bill of health was reported, the 23 that demolished Japan utterly convincingly, in my humble opinion, deserve their spots again against NZ.

    There must be a benefit to keeping things the same, the combinations will click better after the familiarity built up already.

    Performances were exciting, and promising leading into the NZ test.

    The alternatives are good but would be better off starting against Argentina.

    So, my preference would be the same 23 against NZ, and a lot of change for Argentina.

    Kilcoyne, Herring, Bealham,

    Baird, Henderson,

    6 O’Mahony (C), 8 Coombes, 7 Timoney,

    Murray, Carbery,

    Zebo, McCloskey, Hume, Baloucoune,

    Larmour.

    Reps: Sheehan, Healy, O’Toole, Dillane, Doris, Casey, Byrne, Frawley.

    We will learn a lot more by fielding all the players that wouldn’t have had a match yet, rather than asking players to play 3 tests in a row.



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    #10908
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    yeah you can't really change the side now. the whole point of not having a Hume or a Baloucoune in there was due to getting ready for NZ. only call is Henderson.

    Any other changes would mean AF literally learnt nothing and the Japan game was indeed pointless.

    Its a no brainer, it has to be basically the same side. Maybe a conversation about Earls and Henderson. Thats it.

    He must use the Argentina game now though. We need to see a few of the lads like Hume, Balacloune or Carbery tested.



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    #10909
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135148#Comment_118135148

    You learn nothing from fielding a completely changed XV as there's no continuity and cohesion and it nearly always leads to a disjointed poor performance. Remember the Fiji game in 2017.

    Rotate 2 or 3 guys in and see how they play within a cohesive, settled unit. You actually learn something from that. Fielding a completely new XV invariably leads to a total sh*tshow. Anyway, it's not a Wolfhhounds game. It's a test match against a tier 1 nation who beat NZ last year.



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    #10910
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135143#Comment_118135143

    You mention form; he's been in brilliant form for Munster this season.

    You mention "bona fide starter"; Farrell has selected others ahead of him a number of times now. He did so from his first game.

    You mention "centrally contracted"; there's been plenty of examples, given plenty of times, of centrally contract guys not picked. POM himself being one of them.



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    #10911
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135232#Comment_118135232

    he hasn't been in brilliant form. He's been ok. if you take a look at the URC website he's coming in around 65th out of 100 in most of the key stats in his position. which is good, but hardly brilliant. But thats why he's in the squad. Nobody is saying he is a terrible player. He is often overhyped and has some very very poor games. He also has brilliant games. Now yes i know ruck arrivals and a few other things aren't there but its a good indication. and people need to make up their minds about the URC. it either is or isn't a barmoter for selection. Last week some were saying it wasn't.

    Yeah its looking like he's not a bona fide starter anymore. But thats the issue people have taken with POM. Farrell in fairness is showing way more flexibility than any past coaches.

    Again i'm talking about the squad of 35 or so. And anyway it makes sense that CC do get in there. and as i said two examples have been given. One with a severe injury and the other one with natural demise/aging.

    I have zero issue POM being in the squad. He probably brings alot to that role. Lineout opposition, analysis, leadership, banter whatever. He's well liked and respected.

    Anyhoo it has to be the same 23 really. If POM or Murray sneak in then i think this place will explode.



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    #10912
    crossman47
    Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭crossman47


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131688#Comment_118131688

    I agree especially as regards Lowe. Playing him will cost us against the top teams.



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    #10913
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123894#Comment_118123894

    ok sure Ireland don't work in blocks and cycles for the World Cup or indeed any competition they are in. whatever you say. Even AIL teams might have a 2 year plan.

    theres numerous references to it.

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/1028/1256437-farrell-challenges-squad-to-embrace-world-cup-pressure/

    anyway i suppose im arguing for something i don care for. i disagree with all that because we always set ourselves up to fail.

    The only way Ireland will succeed in getting past a WC qf is to have no PR puff pieces around it, no talk, nothing.

    A win against NZ will probably lead to this very problem. Ireland need to go quietly in under the radar if they want to succeed. it might be perfectly timed given the age profiles, a mix of older statesman and some battle hardened mid 20s players.



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    #10914
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135307#Comment_118135307

    Playing him gives us a lot of extra options playing top teams......



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    #10915
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    I think Lowe showed just how much extra that he, or someone like him, can bring to our attacking game. In the first half particularly he tore Japan apart. And sure, Japan weren’t great, but the way he was popping up in midfield is exactly the sort of thing our attack has needed. From that perspective the opposition is almost irrelevant.

    Obviously he was never asked any questions defensively and so those concerns will persist unless/until he proves those concerns no longer need apply. But unless we have someone else who can add that much (and in that way) to our attacking game without those same concerns then I just don’t see any reason not to select him for next week.



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    #10916
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    What was the point in playing Lowe if he is just going to be dropped after a good performance. His defense is the question so he has to play against NZ so that is tested. Both him and Conway earned the start against NZ.



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    #10917
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135288#Comment_118135288

    You think he's in the squad because of 3 rudimentary stats? :P



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    #10918
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Lowe was dropped 6 months ago and told to go and work on his defence.

    he OBVIOUSLY has done this, and showed in camp, as he was reselected for the squad and given the starting jersey versus Japan.

    people are on here are talking as though the status quo with his defence hasnt changed at all, yet we as fans are the only ones who dont know, because he wasnt significantly tested last Saturday. However obviously the coaches know, or do you think he would have been selected if he was showing the same problematic reads in training as he did previously??



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    #10919
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135371#Comment_118135371

    its a thinly veiled sneer at POM (in because of his "banter" FFS)



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    #10920
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135357#Comment_118135357

    One massive plus side is that we were using him as an exit option around our 22. We seemed to take a few more phases to engineer the position we wanted, whereas previously we would've setup a couple of phases and box-kicked. This was a huge change and it worked brilliantly; Lowe was looking for the offload each time. I'm not sure we've attacked from that deep in a long time.

    For me, you have to start him vs NZ now. We've seen the upside. He deserves his opportunity to show how he's improved defensively.



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    #10921
    starkid
    Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135406#Comment_118135406

    eh no its not. im talking about his standing in the squad. he´s not as dry as his media personna makes him out. you think he´d be best chums with Zeebs if he was. Heś well respected and actually a good laugh by all accounts. A mans man to use old school terminology.

    Anyway as i said him being in the squad or on the bench is not a huge deal. he doesn deserve the start though and thats the worry at this point. AF surely can´t bring in POM or Murray can he?

    Lowe was very good. But people are forgetting about Earls. Isn it probably a shootout between Conway and Lowe?



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