Crypto tax situation - Read post 1 for thread banned users

Okay, so I don't actually have to worry about the return until next year, that's a bit of a relief. How long will it take to get registered for CGT to make the payment online, do you happen to know?

Hi HGVRHKYY. What happens if I sell CC after 30-Nov-2021?

Your payment is due the end of January, have a read through the revenue page I linked it's all there

Apologies in advance, I'm sure this was probably asked numerous times but the thread is vast and i'm a lazy shite.

In the near future, i'm going to have to register for CGT and pay my dues. I lost roughly 1000 or so on stocks there last year and have gained about 4k on crypto in the last while. Can I deduct that entire loss of 1k from my CGT owed, along with my CGT allowence? Next questions is, how the hell do I register for CGT? I'm looking on ROS online and can't seem to find anything to register. I'd be grateful for a point in the right direction and advice.

No, you don't deduct the loss on the shares from the CGT owed on the crypto. You deduct the loss on the shares from the gains on the crypto (so 4k gains on crypto minus 1k loss on shares equals 3k net gains), then deduct your small gains exemption (so 3k net gains minus 1.27k equals 1.73k), and then calculate CGT on that (so 1.27k multiplied by 33% equals 0.571k).

And, just to be clear, you don't have any losses on your shares until you have sold or otherwise disposed of then. A decline in the value of shares that you are still holding at the end of the year is not a loss; you can't deduct that in your calculation.

Does anyone know if there is an obligation to tell Revenue when you buy crypto? Got conflicting advice on this recently.

No not when you buy.

If you have a Celsius account, they offer 1% loans using your BTC providing your ltv is max 25%. It's not available in every country though so you might have to check if you can get it in Ireland.

If you log in to the app, when you press the big "C" button, one of the options will be "borrow" if it's available in your country. If it's not there it may not be available.

LTV is loan-to-value ratio so 25% would mean if you wanted a loan of 6k, you would need minimum 24k worth of BTC. You can get loans for higher LTVs but think they charge a higher loan percentage.

It depends on your circumstances.

If you are one of the groups required to register for income tax self-assessment - self-employed; only or main sourse of income is rent, investment income, foreign income, maintenance, or other income not subject to PAYE; someone who benefit from share incentives or similar arrangements - then you are required to complete and file Form 11, and there's a section on Form 11 which you have to detail chargeable assets acquired during the years. So you'd have to list any crypto acquired.

But if you are not required to file Form 11 - and PAYE workers with no other signficant income are not - then, no, you don't have to file details of asset acquisitions. But you still need to keep a good record of the acquisition, because when you dispose of the asset you do have to file, and you'll need details of the acquisition then to calculate your chargeable gain.

Also if the amount in question is less than the exemption of 1270 do you still need to file/report it?

Thanks for your reply. this part confuses me, and apologies in advance because im a tax idiot.

"Your payment for CGT is due before you file your return. For example, if you dispose of an asset between 1 January and 30 November, payment is due by 15 December. Your return will be due by 31 October of the next year."

So you pay it in one year but file a return the following year? what is the return in that case if not the payment of whats owed? i really dont understand this stuff!

thats brilliant, thanks so much

A correction to my post here: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154580/#Comment_118154580

Sorry, I meant to say 7+ years, not 'over 10 years ago'.

Hi Jafin.

So I guess I should wait until 1-Jan-2022 to do any cash-outs?

I'd have to do some digging to get proof of what I paid for the BTC back then (I think I paid the sellers through SEPA) -- it's a pittance compared to their value now. I wonder if having to calculate how much to get taxed on - maybe it'd be easier to get taxed on the whole lot? I have no emails from that long ago.

Move to another EU country perhaps? That would be one hell of an inconvenience -- although Portugal sounds nice. :)

I see where you're coming from alright. Alas, I'm too much of a homebird.

Think you are over thinking things and/or worrying about nothing. People transfer money from their investments into their bank accounts all the time. If somehow the financial institution believes the activity has triggered their anti money laundering system then you can just advise them where it came from if asked.

On the taxes side of things, you'll need to follow the first in first out principle when calculating your gains. So you start with the first batch you purchased and get their euro equivalent at the time of purchase and subtract it from the euro value of it now/when you sell. And repeat for each batch. Remember you get a yearly exempt gain amount of €1270 so perhaps you might want to consider disposing of some in 2021 and some in 2022 to take advantage of the annual exemption amount.

I don't know the answer to this, but is FIFO definitely the correct way to calculate it in Ireland? I've heard on American podcasts that it might be optional for them, not sure if it's the same in Ireland though.

Let's say you bought Bitcoin last year and sent it to your cold wallet. This year you bought more bitcoin and left it on Coinbase and subsequently sold the Bitcoin from Coinbase, wouldn't it be easy to prove which batch was which?

If a forced FIFO does somehow apply, wouldn't that help avoid the bed and breakfast rule because now you're selling older coins?

Fair play, that's actually nice to hear, glad someone's escaping the burden of the unfair punitive CGT here. So you'll be permanently moving to NZ? That's a massive move to be fair, hopefully it ticks all the boxes for you

I am going through this thread now but is there a guide somewhere on minimising tax from trading and investing from an Irish perspective, either by depositing the funds somewhere like AAVE, MakerDAO, or Anchor etc and borrowing against my assets, or registering a limited company to reduce tax?

I know there is some deadline approaching Wednesday and I am concerned.