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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Japan made 3 changes to the side that faced Australia so it was a very, very similar side. And Australia had a few of the guys who were missing in the game against Scotland, e.g. Quade Cooper.

    I have almost no idea at all what to expect from this weekend. And I’m all the better for it I reckon. NZ will be the favourites but just how much we can trouble them is the big thing for me. We know what they can do. We know that if we’re focused we can deal with their threats as well as anyone. But what can we bring to the party on our ball? That’s what I don’t know.

    Will this new style give us better platforms to attack from or will we be dependent on quick ruck ball, time and space that we won’t be able to get? Will we need to tie players down to the rucks and limit our attacking options? And if so (because let’s face it, that will happen) how does that affect how we approach the game overall? We will almost certainly need to be somewhat more conservative. But how much so and what happens if things don’t work? Do we retreat into our shells and revert to type? What about how we’re equipped to deal with counter attack if our attack breaks down? We know NZ can be ruthless there. Are we prepared for that?

    I don’t actually care about the result tbh. I’m just fascinated to see how the whole thing pans out and where it leaves us going into next year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Ireland will loose, but that's not really important.

    It's clear now what Farrell wants - Leinster centric continuity to enable offloading (reduce rucks) game. All aided and abetted by Sexton and the veterans - Healy, Earls, Murray, O'Mahony - for more continuity.

    Very impressed with how Beirne played and how pivotal he is in Leinster focused selection. Its Ryan v Henderson for Farrell I think.

    Benefits of Porter and Furlong in the loose were there to see. Porter looked uncomfortable in the scrum. Still think he should be kept at TH.

    Since Porters debut season at LH (1 starting appearance v Zebre) he has played 4 seasons (69 appearances 2621 mins for Leinster – 37 caps 1330mins for Ireland). I think it's a waste to throw that experience away and reduce the strength in depth at TH to Beahlam or O'Toole.



  • Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭FoFo1254122


    If you are New Zealand you are going to after Ireland at 9 and 10 channel and down lowes wing if he starts

    sexton is 36 and they know Lowes weaknesses.

    I am not saying they will have any joy but they will send the big boys right at sexton, it makes sense to target the 36 year out half and the kiwi.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    It’s a waste to play Porter from the start for 60 or so mins instead of having him sitting on the bench and playing 30? All while we start an aging Healy at LH backed up by an aging Kilcoyne?

    Porter to LH was the only thing that made sense. Ireland doesn’t have any other Test quality LHs. So either we redeploy Porter to LH or we have feck all options at LH. Having Porter riding pine for most of the game while we struggled at LH made no sense at all. It’s better that we have Test quality starting as opposed to wasting Test quality in the bench when they could be starting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    All the more reason for JGP and Lowe to start. Get Keenan and Lowe to take a few at first receiver early on and tell JGP to consider a snipe or two as well. If they want to focus on Sexton then we can use that. If they want to go down Lowes wing then (a) they have to get there and (b) it lets us all get a good look at whether Lowe has made improvements there.

    We’re giving ourselves options in attack now that we haven’t before. No doubt they’ll have seen that. If we can bring that at the weekend then NZ will have to really consider whether to focus on Sexton or not. Japan did that in the run up to Lowes try and drove us back. But then Ringrose stepped in and we didn’t need Sexton for the score.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Porter and Furlong was some combination at the weekend, Japan had no answer and most front rows in the World are going to struggle v them.

    Will be interesting to see if Herring comes back in at hooker, he was doing some serious warm up prior to game and looked fit from the naked eye. Has Kelleher done enough to keep his spot or will they go tried and tested with Herring



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Every team in the history of rugby has targeted the opposition 9 and 10.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    We've been looking for that second play maker in midfield for ages now...


    Who would have thought it would be James Lowe!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Every team since circa 2011 have targeted Sexton, every team in the World targets the 9 & 10. Remembers the days of Stringer & ROG at 9/10. Even ROG said recently his tackling was poor.

    It didn't matter if Sexton was 26 or 36 teams went after him, remember England and France with late hits all the time. Bastareaud heading for him at every chance.

    Every player in the World has a weakness, you would swear Lowe is the only player in the Ireland squad that has a weakness the way people are going on.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think they are both legit concerns, tho.

    Sexton has gone off injured in a good number of games in the last year, and a lot of those times in the first half. Much more so for Leinster than Ireland admittedly, so let's hope it was just a matter of Leinster erring on the side of caution.

    With regards Lowe, every player in the squad has a weakness, but not every player has had their weakness so exposed in the last year. Huge credit to Lowe for yesterday tho, we saw what he can offer on the other side of the ball. If he can even get to par with his positioning, tackling and defence, then I think himself and Conway are deserved first choice for the foreseeable (and with Keenan that feels like a lovely balance, to me). But Lowe wasn't tested much yesterday. If he's selected for the weekend (which I think he will, and should, be) then he's clearly satisfied the coaches on the defensive front.

    (And I'm saying that as a huge fan of Earls. I think Earls is suffering from Munster having picked him at 13 a couple of times this season).



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  • Administrators Posts: 53,823 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Sexton is deceptively big, he's definitely a far larger unit than ROG ever was and a very strong defender. I wouldn't be worried about him making tackles or having people come down his channel.

    The risk at 36 is not about making tackles in a single game, I think he's still able for that, the risk is his ability to put in the hard minutes in a series of games.

    This series is handy enough, he'll play at the weekend and then be sent to his sofa until Leinster are playing in Europe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,358 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I’ve mentioned a few times here that the Irish backrow is less than the sum of its parts. It’s not necessarily about getting the 3 best backrows on the pitch but about the 3 best suited. I wouldn’t pick out any individual player as the problem more the setup. Saturday went well but obviously defence is a big part of the backrow which we didn’t see much from, there is probably something to be said for dropping in an entire Leinster backrow albeit one that as a unit isn’t a regular setup as there maybe a bit of familiarity that helps.



  • Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭FoFo1254122


    I still think sexton starts as he is the best no 10 but I am just saying he will be targeted, not in a nasty way but to see he is physically up to the tempo

    This New Zealand game is important for sexton, if us suffers on the physical side he is as good as gone from international rugby



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Bastareaud moved to Darty Rd just so he could smash into Johnny whenever he wanted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,844 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    The way this place goes from highs to lowes and back again is hilarious!



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    The both of them are good friends off the pitch. On it they try kill each other



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Lowe getting a lot of vindication from people writing him off so convincingly which is pleasing.

    But I'm chuffed to pieces for JGP who had a phenomenal showing which has snuck under a lot of peoples radar.

    The comments I've seen on him range from the nice that he has dirt on Farrell which is why he keeps getting picked to the much meaner "he's just ****"

    I don't think JGP is the best player in the world, but he's a far superior player than people give him credit for and showed it here.

    A lot of the tempo was dictated by him and it's something he's always had a good measure of. His knack of speeding things up and slowing things down was notable here and we really benefitted from it.

    His grubber assist for Conway was such a satisfying one that added a lovely extra dimension on one of the best team tries we've scored in recent years. Big play executed fantastically well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Knacker drinking in Darty Park with the lads would be good craic



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I can't see how you can drop Kelleher or Sheehan. They're just clearly at another level to any other option. Keith Wood wasn't always the most reliable with his darts, but it didn't matter given how good the rest of his game was.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Lowe has a skill set which no other back three in the country possesses. I've watched him a lot for Leinster and in the last couple of years we've seen him step in as first receiver more often. It causes a lot of doubt in opposition defences as he's a very big carrying and offloading threat. But he's also developed into a good passer which makes him an even bigger threat. Murray Kinsella also noted that he slotted in at 15 on a number of occasions to attack from deep.

    It's very understandable that Farrell is giving him as many opportunities as possible in order to integrate him into the team. We're a far more difficult side to prepare for when a back as skilled as Lowe is in the side.

    I don't know if his defensive game is up to snuff for test rugby and it may be the case that it never will. But for now he's worth persisting with.

    Post edited by Clegg on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Another big positive from the game was how much responsibility Aki, Ringrose, Lowe and Keenan took in terms of playmaking and distribution. Not everything went through Sexton.

    Which hopefully means it will no longer be a case of "get to Sexton, stop Ireland"



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,071 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    As a Leinster fan and also a Lowe fan, I'm still saying Lowe is unproven against big sides.

    If we play the style we played at the weekend, which I hope we do and New Zealand turn over and counter attack, which we know they will at some stage, Lowe's channel is the one they'll be heading down.

    That said, he deserves to retain the shirt and Earls is the best bench cover for the back five anyone could ask for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,071 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Sheehan did great, but Herring is still the natural choice to finish a match v NZ



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Herring has played very well for Ireland and in this type of match a lost throw could be huge.

    If it was me I would probably pick Herring to start with Kelleher off bench



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I'd stick with Sheehan.

    The lineout was misfiring before Sheehan came on and I've always thought Sheehans darts were better than Kellehers.

    So dropping Sheehan because of his darts but starting Kelleher would seem a bit of a contradiction.

    Sheehan is the future and is already a batter player than Herring IMO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I'm not expecting us to win on Saturday. I think if we can keep the score within 20 points we'll be doing well. What I want to see though, is a continuation of the more heads up style of attacking play we've been developing towards.

    That is going to be very difficult as New Zealand have a far better pack than Japan and they won't allow us to the quick ruck ball we won last weekend. Really the game is in the hands of our forwards. I think we're developing a very strong and mobile pack. But the likes of Porter, Kelleher and Doris have never started a game against NZ. It's the biggest test of their careers to date. Hope it goes well for them.

    It's going to be extremely difficult to play those tip on passes and offloads with New Zealand's forwards running straight at you. But if we try and fail at it I'll still be happier than if we reverted to a more pedestrian, kick based strategy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    The reality we face is that financially the 6N is far more lucrative for the IRFU than a RWC. Unless we won the thing. So de-emphasizing the 6N is never going to make sense. Therefore our cycles are more year on year.

    Though the coaching contracts are usually RWC cycles, so the IRFU Clearly care about.

    I just don’t believe that what’s going to happen in 2 years time, is having much influence on what they’re trying to do right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    "I think if we can keep the score within 20 points"

    I think we had a lot of people, including myself, thinking the same for the game in Chicago a few seasons back.

    If anything this will be a huge test to see exactly where Ireland is, after the England game the concern was that was just a flash in the pan. If they can repeat a performance it will bring a lot of hope to people, win lose or draw



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Let me guess, some of your best friends are travelers? Amazing that this sort of disparagement still goes without remark.



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