Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

Options
16869717374195

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭gjim


    I believe the savings would be significant - building underground stations is extremely expensive and disruptive and you'd avoid at least 2 if not 3 extra underground stations which will be required if linking up somewhere south of Ranelagh. Instead, Charlemont, Ranelagh, Beechwood and Cowper would require fairly low-cost upgrades (lengthening and raising platforms) like all the other stops further south. It would also involve the least amount of disruption to existing Luas operations during construction as it would not involve TBMs emerging under or alongside operational tracks.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,338 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Yes, you're right, no severing actually. Still extremely tight around all the buildings along there though, construction wise it would have been quite difficult to say the least.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭gjim


    I agree - cut n' cover along Earlsfort terrace would be tricky - maybe too tricky. But all of the other link-up options look problematic to me in other ways and are sure to be more expensive given the extra underground stations required.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    It's unlikely that the savings would be substantial. There would be significant cost associated with cut and cover down Earlsford Ter, a not overly wide city centre street flanked by buildings with basements and multiple heritage buildings particularly at the Adelaide Rd end. This was exactly the kind of thing they wanted to avoid. We saw how slow Luas XC was with all the utility diversions, basements to be dealt with etc, now imagine going several metres deeper.

    It would also bring in additional planning difficulties. Even assuming the church wasn't impacted (extremely unlikely given the excavation required immediately adjacent to it), it still requires demolition of the two buildings next to it. Demolishing two in-use Georgian buildings in an intact Georgian terrace in the heart of the city centre was never going to fly.

    This was looked at and rejected in favour of other options, not sure why some refuse to accept that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭specialbyte


    This is an extract of Map Set E from the current Dublin City Development Plan. Any building marked by a red astrix is a protected structure. You can't swing a cat around that part of the city without hitting a protected structure. It sure does create a lot of constraints.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    I dont refuse to accept it... if it was otherwise viable, I'm sorry. I dont find two Georgian buildings to be worth several hundred million euro.. I've seen what they dod in London with keeping the facades etc...

    The utilities issue , basements etc all makes sense. But if they weren't issues, I'm sorry, sometimes you have to break an egg to make an omelette!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    It's not just about two Georgian buildings (although any planning application which involves demolishing buildings specifically stated to be protected under local and national plans is clearly on a hiding to nothing). The Alignment Options Study concluded this option wasn't a runner;

    Given the extent of technical difficulties and significant environmental challenges associated with Option 3(C), this option is not brought forward for detailed appraisal. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭gjim


    It's true, we have been over this before a few times.

    My concern is that the judgement, that you're point out, to not investigate 3C further was made before the sewer discovery. At that point it was believed that the portal could be sited just across the canal and the tie-in would happen before Ranelagh. If that were still an option then I wouldn't bother with evaluating 3C as you get the benefit of no extra underground stations while having the works sited near a relatively wide road to carry machinery, etc. and construction limited to a relatively small block minimising disruption.

    However the end of that report contains a table where 3C scores higher than any of the options that are currently being considered - tie-ins south of Beechwood or Cowper.

    I don't actually know if 3C is runner as it wasn't evaluated further after the sewer discovery and the disgraceful Danville NIMBY campaign. I'm willing to accept that it's not feasible technically but I don't think that has been established but I have to admit that it's possible that they don't need to do any more investigation since that earlier report. The disruption argument against 3C is much weaker against a southern tie-in which will involve considerably more disruption (extra underground stations and surfacing a TBM near or under the existing tracks) and cost than what was preferred at the time.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, it would save the underground stations between SSG and Cowper. That has to be a cost saver, along with a km or so of tunnel, which is another saving. Of course Dunville Ave remains to be solved - maybe a stiff letter to the Irish Times might help that.

    What extra cost are there? A bit of CPO, and a trickier portal.

    [I am not an expert]



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,242 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    2042 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    This country is actually going backwards in terms of rail infrastructure under the Greens. It's all about the bike and the walk. Back in the 80s when Irish governments served Ireland and not Globalist agendas we got the DART. Kinda makes you wonder what the real agenda of the Greens is after all...



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,708 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    RTE says metro won't operate until at least 2037.

    IT saying 2031.

    But is anyone surprised? We've never been serious about infrastructure in this country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,242 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Well the IT is saying it'll be after 2031 so probably closer to 2037 in reality.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,498 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    This is hilariously bad, laughable when you consider there is a Green Minister responsible for transport. Hopelessly incompetent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭gjim


    How depressing.

    From the rte version of the story (IT is paywalled for me):

    "The strategy aims to reduce car share from 58% to 49% despite a population increase of 485,000 between 2016 and 2042."

    How is that going to work?

    Nearly a 50% increase in population and only a 10% decrease in car share usage. By my sums that means they expect 20% more cars on the road carrying commuters in 2042?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,708 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Yeah but someone is wrong. Are the IT saying it won't be operational until after 2031 or it won't be under construction until then? Big difference.

    RTE are saying it won't under construction until after 2031. IT saying it won't be operational.

    Depressing either way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 767 ✭✭✭technocrat


    I hope they get absolutely thrashed at the next election and get 0 seats.

    A total joke of a party that supposed to represent and prioritise "green" issues.

    No surprise Ryan was desparate to get over to COP and hideout for a few days!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I don’t think the RTE story is correct. Think they’ve got the wrong end of the stick by suggesting it won’t even start construction before 2031.

    operational around 2031 had unfortunately already been suggested and not denied.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,242 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    This is where the at least 2031 date is coming from. Depressing.




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,520 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    That actually looks optimistic to me. I can tell you now that the core bus corridors project will not be delivered in its current guise. If any of it is delivered it will be a watered down version.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8 hinfeyg2


    Why submit a planning application for a project that wont start construction for 10 years?



  • Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭JPup


    What makes you say that? Is it a matter of budget cuts or opposition to the current plans?



  • Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭JPup


    The working assumption seems to be that construction would start on the Metrolink project later this decade and be completed in the early part of the 2030s. Of course there will be at least one change of government in the meantime, so it's very much up in the air.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,520 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Politics/corruption. There's no way that Leo is going to allow Navan road gardens to CPOed he wouldn't even allow the removal of horse stables in Ashtown. And that's just one area. There's also a 0% chance of allowing rathmines to be bus only, do you know how many range rovers go through there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭JohnnyChimpo


    TBH when you look at the full draft, it doesnt give any new timelines for ML that werent already understood, and its given enough mention in the document that you would assume if anything is built it will be Bus Corridors and ML. Also reference is made to the Tara ST interchange upgrade and the Glasnevin station, which only make sense in the context of ML progressing. It's all depressingly vague but I would be no more or less optimistic about ML 2031 after looking at this.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The NTA document appears to point to the delivery of MetroLink after 2031. As in becomes operational after that. It's a very wide and imprecise range, "before 2031" or "after 2031"

    Given that TII went to market only a few weeks ago about beginning MetroLink procurement next year, I can only imagine that MetroLink will commence construction in 2025 or so and be complete in 2031/2032.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,475 ✭✭✭bennyineire


    The NTA are an absolute joke shop, the European Central back are literally throwing money at member states to build infrastructure. Now is the time now to move forward as quick as possible, in 10 years time the money won't be there



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It’s not new though. It was pretty clear Already that 2027 wasn’t gonna happen. RTÉ have run with this to suggest this means it won’t start construction til 2031 and are working out 2037 from there. Pretty sure they’re wrong



Advertisement