10 Million euro Soil Sampling Programme.

DBK1 · 08-10-2021 12:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992132#Comment_117992132

I don’t think he insulted you personally anywhere and while his post might be a bit strongly worded the points made are all valid.

I don’t see any value in letting the department of Ag have all your soil information.

I agree with you about not spreading something that’s already in the soil but soil samples aren’t than dear. It’s easy to do the samples yourself and use the information then yourself.

Also I doubt there are too many farmers who are serious about their grass and their land that aren’t doing some bit of soil sampling already, even if it isn’t as often as recommended.

endainoz · 08-10-2021 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992645#Comment_117992645

Your getting confused with soil sampling and soil analysis which are two completely different things. All soil sampling does is just tell you how deficient your are in lime or NPKs. Essentially telling you what bag you need to put out. This does nothing for soil health in the long run. Deep soil analysis is more expensive but gives a much more detailed picture with regard to trace elements and what minerals are "locked" in the soil and the farmer can then use that information to improve overall soil health.

This sort of signing away your life to the dept of ag with your soil details is a bit silly. The dept know a huge amount about all our farms as it it. Between carbon navigators, nitrates statements, satellite inspections, the beef genomics scheme, etc etc. Gathering data on Irish farms is nothing new.

bogman_bass · 08-10-2021 2:36pm

The argument “I don’t want to know the data so the government don’t know the data” isn’t a great one

Say my name · 08-10-2021 3:57pm

Have we dept of ag/soil sampling companies/honey bee workers contracted out on the team here? 🤔😆

Loads of reasons why a farmer mightnt want officialdom to know their soil status. There's a good few given already in the thread. If they are not swayed by a "free" soil sample that's their own business.

It's not be all and end all either.

A neighbour tested their phosphorus levels end of 2018. They were up in index 4. They continued their normal phosphorus spreading 19 and 20. End of 2020 they were index 2. The heat and drought of 18 seemingly made more P biologically available. If someone in an office read that report in 18 they'd be limiting their P spread. Eyes on the ground.

Saying all that I've applied myself. Reason, in dero the dept get my soil results which are detailed anyway. But if I wasn't compelled already to do so, I'd be going through all the scenarios. Already been mentioned at meetings it's a nutrient management plan by dept.

08-10-2021 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993374#Comment_117993374

I don't see anyone making that argument. The landowner knowing data, and the Government knowing data which will be used to formulate policy, are two very different things. The landowner can contract a company to do all this sampling privately, they just have to dust off the Communion money. I left the Knowledge Transfer Scheme in the second year because all I saw in it was my data flowing one way, from my operation to the policy makers. Last I heard it was proposed to have a fertiliser register, that one would have to fill in to purchase synthetic fertiliser. Seeing as I don't use it, it's of no concern to me. But, it's easy to see if they know what type land you have, and where, they can form policy to limit what you can or cannot do. This is more conditionality by stealth. Instead of removing %'s from a CAP payment, they'll begin to limit what you can do that is market related.

From my point of view, the Government have no business knowing my business. If, and it's more likely than not, they start making things mandatory then it's time to look at opting out of schemes rather than in. Information is power/control. As good business people as farmers think they are, sharp operators 🙄, we bend over double to give away data in exchange for magic beans, instead we could purchase that data privately and keep it confidential.

DBK1 · 08-10-2021 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993167#Comment_117993167

No I’m not confusing anything, I know exactly what soil sampling and soil analysis is.

Any soil sample I’ve ever taken I’ve always paid the €10 extra to get a full sample with micro nutrient results along with macro nutrients and also organic matter. The only extra I see in the dept scheme is pathogen testing.

I’ve also sent samples to the UK a few years back and got far more detailed results than what’s on the dept scheme. I must look up the results over the weekend and put them up here.

I also didn’t mention anything about “signing your life away to the dept”. I gave a detailed post earlier in this thread explaining how the soil sample results could affect my farm if the dept decide to use the results to restrict what farmers can spread or what slurry can be imported/exported.

Whatever anyone else decides to do on their own farm as regards the scheme is absolutely none of my business, the only advice I give is to be prepared for what you’re signing up to.

blue5000 · 08-10-2021 5:33pm

Folks just calm down a bit, I don't think there's any need for conspiracy theories. this is, IMHO just to get an idea of how much carbon is in soil.

Say my name · 08-10-2021 6:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994251#Comment_117994251

Carbon is being tested in Kerry and Carlow I believe.

Nutrients in Wales.

Dozer1 · 08-10-2021 8:52pm

Well said Blue,

from follows Dawgs comments on French agriculture policy this is what is coming our way and either now or in 5 years we'll be the same so conspiracy theories or not.

We're seeing it coming on the dairy side so either way there is a real crack down coming on what we put into the soil. Absolutely it is annoying the the information flow is one way but such is the world we live in.

Say my name · 08-10-2021 9:29pm

Does anyone have a concern that the results will be accurate if some parts are tested in this country and others in a different country?

My own other tests all went to Scotland.

Be interesting to see if the labs will cope with quantities involved.

I'm thinking I might if I get in just do the other test as normal to compare.

Be careful with the putting into soil talk and talking pollution. All sprays in non farmers eyes are thought of as pollution and unnecessary. Glyphosate is only registered to be used in Ireland till December 2022, etc. It's a slippery slope on what's deemed pollution. Carbon does cure lots in soil though.

Dinzee Conlee · 09-10-2021 2:13am

I must say as a sheep farmer I find it somewhat amusing, or maybe ironic to hear lads talk about giving the government information, when you can’t sell a cow without it being recorded ‘on a computer’

Us poor ould sheep farmers are still working with paper… 🙂

I signed up to the soil scheme. I don’t put out any synthetic fertiliser… I don’t know if I am being right smart or right dumb, sure time will tell I pose 🙂

10-10-2021 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117996230#Comment_117996230

That's fine, wait on. Some people have had experience in Govt agencies collecting information on land previously.

Dinzee Conlee · 10-10-2021 11:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000145#Comment_118000145

Yeah, sure like I said Herd, time will tell…

What information gathering on land are you referring to as a matter of interest?

10-10-2021 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000298#Comment_118000298

Plant types, habitats, all contributed to designations. I say this information will contribute to constraints of a different kind. Selling an animal is a different thing, you must complete the paperwork to access the market. This will lead to constraints on how you will be allowed use your own land.

Dinzee Conlee · 10-10-2021 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000303#Comment_118000303

Yeah, you could well be right Herd.

But, even if everyone boycotted this scheme, do you think the dept would say ‘we have no real or reference data to base this new constraint on? Shall we skip it, or just make up the numbers?’

I would guess the latter, so might as well get the soil sampling done…

White Clover · 10-10-2021 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000303#Comment_118000303

It could also backfire. I have lands that are designated that should not be.

10-10-2021 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000371#Comment_118000371

To each their own. I won't be sending on any more information than I absolutely need to to operate.

10-10-2021 3:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000373#Comment_118000373

You could have more yet if you look at the Biodiversity 2030 thread, 13% of state currently designated to got to 30%. But that's for the other thread.

White Clover · 10-10-2021 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118001092#Comment_118001092

Oh I hear what you're saying and they're not to be trusted when it comes to designating land. When you see the green fields belonging to me that are designated, it'd make you cry. It's farmed land but not pushed with large quantities of bag stuff.